Medics are broken beyond repair. The game is no longer fun.

[KarmaJusticar]

I disagree i still have fun

I just wanted to put up some findings i have seen since the nerf in patch 1.2.

 

My commando is full rakatta mix with 3 black hole pieces. ive started buying the black hole armor and ripping mods, enhancements, an armor and putting them back into my rakatta gear to keep the set bonuses...love the new stats getting rid of all the worthless alacrity...huge amounts of +power, crit , and surge makes me happy. getting rid of all that alacrity makes timing, position, and general raid awareness much more valued. Especially with our resource management where its at slower bigger and smarter heals = wins for the commando medic.

 

my stats without buffs with buffs an stim

aim: 1770 aim:1980

crit: 38.46% crit: 44.51%

surge: 75.00% surge:75.00%

alacrity: 8.17% alacrity: 8.17%

heal% + 483 heal% + 546

 

My guilds progression were 10/10 Nightmare clears an all that good stuff . Normal EC clear, an were starting into HM EC now. it was tough we lost our main tank due to rl issues and were trying to scramble a bit to get into the HM EC.

We run either Scoundrel heal with me or a Sage heal with me. pre 1.2 everyone knows about how ammo was a non issue if we had parcers at the time i wouldnt be suprised to see 2k hps sustained. Now tho like everyone knows we have to micro manage rotations keep eyes out for incoming spike dmg and have to be on our game 100% of the time. Before we could save dps players incomptence without a sweat now its much more unlikely. Most of the parcers ive been runing on attempts have my sustained hps at 1.5k for the harder spike dmg intensive fights like Jarg an Sorno NM. But most of the time my hps isnt needed to be at that lvl and its round 1k hps with myself dropping mortar volley every cd and CB while SC for extra boss dmg. so all in all PVE id say ya weakest heal but everything is doable...Scoundrels make me sick with their healing and no resource management needed but were're still viable.

 

PVP... eh i used to love it but quit for a couple weeks after 1.2 recently i started playing again. Now instead of using my pvp gear full bm, im in all of my pve gear that gives me an additional 3k hp's and with the nerf to expertise i felt like the extra healing i have on my pve gear would out weigh the bonus from expertise...i first thought i would be totally wiped off the face of the wz every spawn lol with using 0 epertise. But using pilar humping los'ing and the dmg mitagation tallents i was pleasently suprised to hit 600k healing done multiple times yesterday... and on games when im focused more often then not ill at least hit the 300k mark. Not going to sugar coat it tho if your up against anyone skilled and geared ur going to be locked down your intire life every time.

 

so all in all after the inital gut wrenching fear about 1.2 id say its ok an I look forward to pve and pvp. They still need to tweak our heals a bit but u can always work around whats been done to us. i would like a change in mechanic for Hammer shot....especially since were using it so often now. An the best part of nerfs they go around and they come around we will be up for buffs in the future so keep a happy face an play through it.

 

or log on ur 50 jugg and wipe out every healer u find in wz's to vent your frustration..hehe

[germil]

Resource management was completely brainless and unengaging.

 

Ressource 'management' (i.e. player thinking, decision making) is still the same. Ammo was a limiting factor before, it is still a limiting factor now.

 

It is just that the healing throughput/efficiency have been reduced.

[SneakyErvin]

Healers are not tanks or dps. Healers should not run alone or try to kill people, healers should seek out groups of allies and heal.

 

If you get into a 1vs1, heal, cleanse and run, find your allies.

 

You picked the role of a healer for a reason, to heal for your team, hopefully not to 1vs1 people.

 

Rupture 15sec CD

Deadly Saber 12sec CD

Field Aid 4.5sec CD

 

Hmmm...

[Arzoo]

I love the "healers shouldn't be OK on their own argument."

 

OK fine, so if I can't participate in 1v1 anymore then I'll just go join this 2v2 or 3v3. And then when I can't keep the dps I'm healing alive for more than 2 seconds the argument is "well sure no healer should be able to keep someone up through 2 dps."

 

 

Ok sure, great. I'll just... respec and stop being such a liability to the team by being a non-dps...

[SneakyErvin]

I love the "healers shouldn't be OK on their own argument."

 

OK fine, so if I can't participate in 1v1 anymore then I'll just go join this 2v2 or 3v3. And then when I can't keep the dps I'm healing alive for more than 2 seconds the argument is "well sure no healer should be able to keep someone up through 2 dps."

 

 

Ok sure, great. I'll just... respec and stop being such a liability to the team by being a non-dps...

 

But thats just the thing. What do you want as a healer? Being totaly unstoppable in a 1v1? You know, outlasting and slowly killing the enemy. In that case everyone would play a healer. Its just like dps or tanks, they spec for their role and do the other far worse.

 

Tank sacrifices damage for alot more mitigation, both when it comes to gearing and specs.

DPS sacrifice survivability for damage.

Healers sacrifice damage for healing and survivability.

 

I remember in DaoC, playing a healer there ment healing others. You had a few instant heals to use on yourself, but if you got anyone beating on you there was no chance getting off a hard cast.

 

Tanks soaked damage.

DPS dealt damage to enemies.

Healers healed allies and cced enemies.

 

WoW turned away from that and made healers a completely different thing. In WoW you could barely take down a healer, since they rarely went oom and they had too many and big heals. During one period I remember shammies running around as heal spec blowing people up. Just because Blizzard took healing into a new direction doesnt mean it was a good direction.

 

IMO healers that get focused should get ripped to pieces just like any other class that gets focused without getting healed. I dont want to see WoW healesr in this game, the healers that can tank 4 or 5 people without trouble.

[Arzoo]

If a healer can't heal through a single dps then how in the freaking world is a healer+dps EVER GOING TO WIN against 2 dps?

 

Even if we pretend the 2 dps are total idiots and ignore the healer rather than using their interrupts and ccs on it while attacking the actual threat, the first is already enough damage output to negate the heals plus deal some additional damage to the dps, and then the second adds it's own damage on top of that, and oh look at that the 2 dps team kills a player before the dps/healer team even playing poorly, after which the healer gets mopped up since they don't stand a whisper of a chance against 1 dps, let alone the TWO that are STILL BOTH ALIVE.

[SneakyErvin]

If a healer can't heal through a single dps then how in the freaking world is a healer+dps EVER GOING TO WIN against 2 dps?

 

Even if we pretend the 2 dps are total idiots and ignore the healer rather than using their interrupts and ccs on it while attacking the actual threat, the first is already enough damage output to negate the heals plus deal some additional damage to the dps, and then the second adds it's own damage on top of that, and oh look at that the 2 dps team kills a player before the dps/healer team even playing poorly, after which the healer gets mopped up since they don't stand a whisper of a chance against 1 dps, let alone the TWO that are STILL BOTH ALIVE.

 

You have CCs too.

 

Healers shouldnt be the thing that decides how a fight will turn out, they shouldnt bring more to the table than a tank or dps that knows what they are doing.

 

You also sound like a WoW arena player that did nothing but 2v2 and want your OP combos in this game too. But sadly for you this game took a step away from the WoW style of healing and went back to how it used to be in MMOs. When healing actually took skill and effort. Now they are on the right track.

[Arzoo]

You have CCs too.

 

Healers shouldnt be the thing that decides how a fight will turn out, they shouldnt bring more to the table than a tank or dps that knows what they are doing.

 

You also sound like a WoW arena player that did nothing but 2v2 and want your OP combos in this game too. But sadly for you this game took a step away from the WoW style of healing and went back to how it used to be in MMOs. When healing actually took skill and effort. Now they are on the right track.

 

Healers are very much deciding the outcome: whoever has the healer loses.

 

I hated WoW PvP; probably comes from playing a paladin and hating healing with it.

[rjavig]

Ok? What's your point? I'm 5/5 rakata healing merc pre 1.2. Yes healing was easy and more error friendly. However, with the changes to critical efficiency and supercharged gas, the spec is literally not playable compared to the other two healers. I still have not yet seen a merc healer in a successful raid. Operative and Sorc healers are hands down superior in every category.

That's the issue. It's not that you can still spec it an under ideal circumstances, do ok. The issue is that they're super far behind the other healing counterparts. I don't think thats arguable, and I'm pretty sure the healing numbers back it up.

 

lol my point is as a commando healer im still good and ive been successful in operation runs even after 1.2. healing less than sages? no when it comes to a boss fight were the tank will be getting hit hard a sage wont even be close to the commando single healing. were still just as good as the other classes i ran the numbers with friends who was a sage healer or a scoundrel and the numbers are close some of there heals are better and vice versa the numbers are relatively close throughout the board, you just need to know how to heal if you want to see a successful commando/merc healer come run a raid with me youll see its easy

Edited May 4, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post

[Arzoo]

Ok? What's your point? I'm 5/5 rakata healing merc pre 1.2. Yes healing was easy and more error friendly. However, with the changes to critical efficiency and supercharged gas, the spec is literally not playable compared to the other two healers. I still have not yet seen a merc healer in a successful raid. Operative and Sorc healers are hands down superior in every category.

That's the issue. It's not that you can still spec it an under ideal circumstances, do ok. The issue is that they're super far behind the other healing counterparts. I don't think thats arguable, and I'm pretty sure the healing numbers back it up.

 

lol my point is as a commando healer im still good and ive been successful in operation runs even after 1.2. healing less than sages? no when it comes to a boss fight were the tank will be getting hit hard a sage wont even be close to the commando single healing. were still just as good as the other classes i ran the numbers with friends who was a sage healer or a scoundrel and the numbers are close some of there heals are better and vice versa the numbers are relatively close throughout the board, you just need to know how to heal if you want to see a successful commando/merc healer come run a raid with me youll see its easy

 

Combat medics are not better at tank healing than sages or scoundrels.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Sireene
quote of edited post

[Myschief]

The worst part about being FotM is not the nerfs that people are inviting to be sent their way, but rather rpovoking the need for ones opponents to L2P. Guess what. Just before 1.2 hit marauders L2Ped. A well constructed marauder will eat commandos alive. We are going to have to deal with that fact.

 

It is unfortunate that marauder L2Ped at the same time they were buffed and healing in general was nerfed. I presented an illusion that one class broke while the other became OPed. Fortunaltely, I can tell the difference.

 

It does not change the fact that commandos need to find a solution to the marauder problem. My solution is to drag marauder into the LoS of a gunslinger and watch the marauder melt.

 

I disagree i still have fun

I just wanted to put up some findings i have seen since the nerf in patch 1.2.

...

 

I have a question for you that is only vaguely related to the topic. My question will require some preliminary explaination, so please bear with me.

 

I know that when you place an armor mod with a set bonus into a frame with a set bonus (from a different set) the resulting armor will provide both bonuses. Unfortuately, I do not know any other combat medics with the ability to combine the combat medic PVP and PVE sets. I was wondering if you knew anybody that had tried or if you had considered trying. It would be interesting to learn if combat medics could get Bacta Infusion onto a 15 second cool down. Nevermind, it is probably too expensive to try.

[HotLeadSingerGuy]

If a healer can't heal through a single dps then how in the freaking world is a healer+dps EVER GOING TO WIN against 2 dps?

 

Even if we pretend the 2 dps are total idiots and ignore the healer rather than using their interrupts and ccs on it while attacking the actual threat, the first is already enough damage output to negate the heals plus deal some additional damage to the dps, and then the second adds it's own damage on top of that, and oh look at that the 2 dps team kills a player before the dps/healer team even playing poorly, after which the healer gets mopped up since they don't stand a whisper of a chance against 1 dps, let alone the TWO that are STILL BOTH ALIVE.

 

This happens all the time and it's extremely simple to stop. Cryo grenade one of the DPS. As soon as he breaks the stun, hit him with the CC. He'll be out for 45 seconds while you and the other DPS crushed the remaining enemy. Then you have plenty of time to make sure both you and the DPS are up on health and ready, then you go after remaining DPS.

 

Learn to play the class and you wouldn't have as many problems. It sounds like you just like crying. Instead of whining about your inadequacies you should learn a better strategy for playing. You'd be surprised how powerful CM still is as long as you don't play it like a 12 year old.

[Aritok]

Please tell me what CC take out a player for 45 sec.......

 

 

 

Edit: if your answer is Concussive Round, than better check out this spell in PVP.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Aritok

[KeyboardNinja]

Just to throw my two cents in...

 

I play a kinetic shadow and a combat medic commando. As a shadow, killing CMs in warzones is annoying as all get out. Well, I should qualify that: killing *skilled* CMs is annoying. Talent your reactive shield to give you the uninterruptable buff and don't kite quite as much as you previously did. You can easily out-heal a kinetic shadow, and if you're playing correctly, you can be sufficiently annoying to prevent us from doing any serious damage/self-healing. I don't think you can straight-up win a 1v1 against a kinetic shadow, but I don't think the shadow would win either barring other factors.

 

In any case, that's not your job. You don't have to win 1v1s, you just have to be annoying long enough to get a team member to help you out. While all of this is going on, you should be able to sneak in a heal now and again on other players (yes, I've seen this many times with skilled CMs). In other words, it's balanced, but much more tightly than before.

 

Facing Sentinel/Marauders or Infiltration Shadows is definitely annoying, but still not the end of the world if your tank is paying attention. This is really a common theme in PvP post-1.2: it requires a lot more coordination to avoid getting DPSed into the pavement. Healers and tanks need to actually work together, and fights are less about simultaneous 1v1s and more about group vs group.

 

In summary: the CM nerfs are annoying, yes. The expertise changes are even more annoying, but things look pretty balanced to me. And for the record, if a scoundrel/operative gets the drop on *any* class, they will probably win. It's not just healers.

[SneakyErvin]

I have a question for you that is only vaguely related to the topic. My question will require some preliminary explaination, so please bear with me.

 

I know that when you place an armor mod with a set bonus into a frame with a set bonus (from a different set) the resulting armor will provide both bonuses. Unfortuately, I do not know any other combat medics with the ability to combine the combat medic PVP and PVE sets. I was wondering if you knew anybody that had tried or if you had considered trying. It would be interesting to learn if combat medics could get Bacta Infusion onto a 15 second cool down. Nevermind, it is probably too expensive to try.

 

Not sure if trolling but...

 

No you cant get 2 bonuses as you claim. The set bonus attached to the armoring will be the bonus you get.

 

So if you put armorings that have a set bonuses attached to them into 2 set pieces that have the bonus attached to the set piece you will only get the bonus from the armoring.

 

Example: You add two armorings that provides a 15% crit chance bonus to x spell into a set that provides -15s cd to y ability as the 2 piece bonus. The result will be that you get the 15% crit chance bonus but not the -15sec cd.

Edited May 4, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[Lijun]

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7660/screenshot2012041922503.jpg

 

Pay particular attention to the Commando healer.

 

No they are working 100% fine post 1.2.

All these claims of rec management being nerfed to the ground are completely ridiculous, They still can do over 800k healing in a single war zone with zero deaths ( the death he took in this game was due to exploding b/c of the stupid rahghoul plague thing). No other healer can do the same.

 

And no that is not me its a guildy. ^^

 

100k protection on that vanguard was why that commando did so well though, and many of us dont have that option.

[Myschief]

Not sure if trolling but...

 

No you cant get 2 bonuses as you claim. The set bonus attached to the armoring will be the bonus you get.

 

So if you put armorings that have a set bonuses attached to them into 2 set pieces that have the bonus attached to the set piece you will only get the bonus from the armoring.

 

Example: You add two armorings that provides a 15% crit chance bonus to x spell into a set that provides -15s cd to y ability as the 2 piece bonus. The result will be that you get the 15% crit chance bonus but not the -15sec cd.

 

The source of my information is not inclined make statements, about game mechanics, unless he has seen them first hand. I am unfortunately nowhere close to being able to prove it myself, thus providing screen shots, but next time I have access to computer while he he is playing I will get my own visual confirmation.

[SneakyErvin]

The source of my information is not inclined make statements, about game mechanics, unless he has seen them first hand. I am unfortunately nowhere close to being able to prove it myself, thus providing screen shots, but next time I have access to computer while he he is playing I will get my own visual confirmation.

 

Even if he has somehow gotten it to work by stripping Black Hole or War Hero armorings and putting them into rakata or BM gear and getting double set bonuses it is not intended. According to the devs the armoring that has the set bonus attatched to it takes control of what set bonus your equiped item will have.

 

Put 4 war hero/black hole armorings into 4 bm/rakata pieces with different bonuses and you will only get the bonus the war hero/black hole armoring states.

 

You wont be able to take WH eliminator mods and put them into a BM bounty hunter healing set and get two 2-piece bonuses and two 4-piece bonuses. You will just get the eliminator set bonus even if you put it in the BM healer shell.

 

Just like you cant get the BH WH healer set, rip out the mods and place them in the rakata healer set and get two 2-piece and two 4-piece bonuses. It aint gonna happen.

 

The only way to get mixed set bonuses is by getting two pieces/armorings from two different sets, giving you two 2-piece set bonuses but zero 4-piece bonuses. Just like it works now.

Edited May 5, 2012 by SneakyErvin

[Chanamel]

This happens all the time and it's extremely simple to stop. Cryo grenade one of the DPS. As soon as he breaks the stun, hit him with the CC. He'll be out for 45 seconds while you and the other DPS crushed the remaining enemy. Then you have plenty of time to make sure both you and the DPS are up on health and ready, then you go after remaining DPS.

 

Learn to play the class and you wouldn't have as many problems. It sounds like you just like crying. Instead of whining about your inadequacies you should learn a better strategy for playing. You'd be surprised how powerful CM still is as long as you don't play it like a 12 year old.

 

Learn to read books.

 

If healers can never beat dps 1v1 then they're useless. If a DPS is on them then they can not afford to heal other people. If they're sucking up half the group's utility (guard, etc) to stay alive while healing themselves then they're a liability. I'll break it down for you since logic isn't your strong point; that utility could go to other classes that have greater innate potential thus producing an opportunity cost outweighing the benefits of such use of utiliity on a healer nstead of legit DPS.

 

Where you come off defining roles to justify dueling inequality as MMO gospel is dumb at best and arrogant at worst. It's like someone saying the sky is green. It's just absurd.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Chanamel

[Arzoo]

This happens all the time and it's extremely simple to stop. Cryo grenade one of the DPS. As soon as he breaks the stun, hit him with the CC. He'll be out for 45 seconds while you and the other DPS crushed the remaining enemy. Then you have plenty of time to make sure both you and the DPS are up on health and ready, then you go after remaining DPS.

 

Learn to play the class and you wouldn't have as many problems. It sounds like you just like crying. Instead of whining about your inadequacies you should learn a better strategy for playing. You'd be surprised how powerful CM still is as long as you don't play it like a 12 year old.

 

There's a little detail in your post that makes me suspect you have yet to fire a single shot at an opposing player. Maybe you can find it. I'll be patient and wait.

[SneakyErvin]

Learn to read books.

 

If healers can never beat dps 1v1 then they're useless. If a DPS is on them then they can not afford to heal other people. If they're sucking up half the group's utility (guard, etc) to stay alive while healing themselves then they're a liability. I'll break it down for you since logic isn't your strong point; that utility could go to other classes that have greater innate potential thus producing an opportunity cost outweighing the benefits of such use of utiliity on a healer nstead of legit DPS.

 

Where you come off defining roles to justify dueling inequality as MMO gospel is dumb at best and arrogant at worst. It's like someone saying the sky is green. It's just absurd.

 

Then your team isnt doing their job in the first place. You just dont let a dps be on a healer. Unless the enemy team is really stupid there will be people on the healer. Those are the people that should die first unless there is a healer on the enemy team aswell. Taunting, guarding, peeling and so on are all things that you need to do to help the healer out. Even if the healer is soaking up alot of utility and damage it still means they are tanking the enemy players while your dpsers can kill.

 

Healers shouldnt be the god class that it lately has turned out to be due to some shady MMO companies *cough*Blizzard*cough*. They should just bring heals, cc and shields to the battlefield, instead of a dps that brings dps, cc and in some cases taunts. But if focused they should go down as easily as any other class. Just like a dps with an enemy on them, they cant dps something else properly and ignore whats on them.

 

I'm sure any healer has a fair shot at killing any dps one on one if they know how to play, it will just take alot of time.

[GrandMoffMike]

Stop the QQ !! Trooper medic is not broken. I have a 39 trooper that I've rolled after 1.2 went live and I'm not having any problem healing in wzs and fp. In the wzs ( which is all pugs and valor rank 37) I'm averaging 150k heals, 8 medals and a whooping 75% win in all my matches.

 

Now for the Fps, which I've done over 50 of the fps , healing is no issue at all. Only time I have problem with heals is when im doing a fps for the first time when I dont know the fight at all so there is a death or 2 , but once I know the fps, I'm really spot on with heals and barely ran out of ammos and no casualty!

 

now I know its all pre 50 , and its will be a whole different game once I ding 50. Maybe there will be improvement down the road but for now its isnt broken in fact combat medic is durable and solid.

[Arzoo]

Even if the healer is soaking up alot of utility and damage it still means they are tanking the enemy players while your dpsers can kill.

 

what dpsers? You've wasted one slot on the healer, and another on the tank guarding him. Are you saying there are at least 4 players on the opposing side? Because if they didn't waste any slots on heals/tanks whatever their train targets will die instantly regardless of the presence of healers.

[Chanamel]

Then your team isnt doing their job in the first place. You just dont let a dps be on a healer. Unless the enemy team is really stupid there will be people on the healer. Those are the people that should die first unless there is a healer on the enemy team aswell. Taunting, guarding, peeling and so on are all things that you need to do to help the healer out. Even if the healer is soaking up alot of utility and damage it still means they are tanking the enemy players while your dpsers can kill.

 

"it still means they are tanking the enemy.". A DPSer could be tanking that damage with said utility so the "support tanking" argument could be applied to everyone else anyways. And, of course, it's very questionable that a healer (or dps for that matter) should be balanced around having a pocket tank.

 

For the record, although I think we were overnerfed, I don't think it's as bad as the OP and a few others have stated it. It's the hypothetical that healers should never win a duel 1v1 equal skill/gear that makes me want to drink.

 

Healers shouldnt be the god class that it lately has turned out to be due to some shady MMO companies *cough*Blizzard*cough*.

 

Yes, the company that made an MMO fun enough to almost singlehandedly cause the genre to go mainstream is "shady".

 

I'm sure any healer has a fair shot at killing any dps one on one if they know how to play, it will just take alot of time.

 

You're mistaken. Against terrible pugs I still have good numbers in wzs and win duels. Against a legit guildy that knows what they're doing (namely interrupts and cc) and has some gear, I can't afford to use very many GCDs for anything but heals, what little damage I can output is largely or entirely covered by their mild self-healing, and I'm whittled down with my nerfed regen.

 

The state of things will really become apparent, IMO, when rated WZs come out. Against pugs and reasonably talented players playing in a casual/careless manner (jumping into a pack of players or targeting a particular enemy over and over again) rather than playing more objectively we still do alright. Against a team of serious players target switching immediately (often with vent), and laying on their CC, interrupts, and burst, we're dead in seconds. PvP gear increases healing less than damage, we have no good defensive abilities and one decent one, we have no spammable instants or instant casts on a trivial cd, and (largely as a result of the previous issue) we have terrible mobility while healing. Instant casts are godly in PvP and we'll suffer soon for a lack of them.

 

The class needs a decent but not strong HoT, a stronger reactive shield (something like either 50% damage reduction or 35% reduction and 35% of damage is retured to the attacter; it is a "reactive shield" apparently and some of that 35% will be mitigated by the given attacter's armor/talents,) and MP's ammo cost lowered back down to 1 after AMP is casted, and some sort of buff to TP (maybe 5-10% more healing to targets with TP on it) to make it feel meaningful (i.e. fun) to press instead of a 1m trivial HpA boost or ritualistic pre-fight cast.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Chanamel

[rjavig]

Combat medics are not better at tank healing than sages or scoundrels.

we actually are i was healing a sage for fun and he was doing the same (he had better gear by a bit) most sage heals are tick heals it seems while ours hit harder each one. yes both heal same amount at the end but ours are single hit heals rather than overtime and area. thats why sage healers are good for raid because they can pop a heal on someone and go to someone else because there heals would be healing someone overtime and they have that huge aoe pool not like commandos. so yes we are better at single not aoe. also when a boss enrages a sage cant heal a tank to outlive it, but a commando can for a bit. Only though if tank uses buffs. even with the buff though a sage cant make the tank live through it. i went tank and had a sage healer for directive 7 i also went when i was commando heals i was able to make the tank survive for a good while until we downed him. also the sage healer was better geared then me and you can check the numbers if you want with a friend but most of our heals do higher in one hit then overtime like sages. also whats the point of making 3 healer classes if each werent made for a specific role? and dont troll because bioware made a good job after 1.2 to showing the differences and which one is better at which

Edited May 5, 2012 by rjavig