Why are we still in the "Kill 10 rats" era of MMOs?

[Bocek]

Wow you picked the wrong sport to try and make a straw arguement with. Tennis has evolved and changed drastically over the last 100 years..

 

The current court design of tennis has been in effect since the late 1800's, so maybe in 2150 MMORPGs will have evolved passed kill 10 rats. Enjoy playing them then.

[Kaphik]

You could argue that 200+ millions of USD is a decent budget for making something that could challenge the static. Yet we all know that Bioware (or is it EA?) more so came to the conclusion that they wanted to copy the successful MMO concept that was WoW, for a hopefully guaranteed payback.

 

You could also argue that for $200 million one would think that Hollywood could come up with a totally original idea, except that most movies tend to follow a basic story formula. One that has been around for thousands of years at its basic core because people like familiarity. When a company is risking a lot of money, and the majority of your target audience is looking for comfort not something brand new, you go with what works.

[Saahh]

No no taken out of context, I wasn't saying that in regards to any one person. I just tend to talk in a more narrative tone. I was actually just using that to transition between posts.

 

Lol your transition sat in the wrong spot haha. My apologies then.

 

 

For a themepark mmo, this is a purty darn good one. Although I am a precu-ftw player. My first mmo experience was easily one that will never, ever be topped. Swg's sandbox had me hook line and sinker.

[Kaphik]

The current court design of tennis has been in effect since the late 1800's, so maybe in 2150 MMORPGs will have evolved passed kill 10 rats. Enjoy playing them then.

 

Also, it's not the game that has evolved. The equipment has and so have the players, but the game itself hasn't changed.

[Misthalin]

You could also argue that for $200 million one would think that Hollywood could come up with a totally original idea, except that most movies tend to follow a basic story formula. One that has been around for thousands of years at its basic core because people like familiarity. When a company is risking a lot of money, and the majority of your target audience is looking for comfort not something brand new, you go with what works.

 

Indeed. That was kind of my point. It's just a shame that the gaming industry (which has, IMO, nostly been innovative and creative) would fall into that kettle as well, which is Hollywood produced mainstream.

[Kaphik]

Indeed. That was kind of my point. It's just a shame that the gaming industry (which has, IMO, nostly been innovative and creative) would fall into that kettle as well, which is Hollywood produced mainstream.

 

The reason we're sort of stuck in that rut is because computer games are big money now, when 20 years ago they were made for gamers and profit was used to fund more games.

[Oddzball]

Lol your transition sat in the wrong spot haha. My apologies then.

 

 

For a themepark mmo, this is a purty darn good one. Although I am a precu-ftw player. My first mmo experience was easily one that will never, ever be topped. Swg's sandbox had me hook line and sinker.

 

I love SWTOR, but i mean honestly, after getting one guy form each faction to 50 is it really worth it to slog through 90% of the same quests again?

 

And what about after you get all 8 classes(16 really) to 50, what then?

 

We have the ability to do dynamic events in MMOs, we have the ability to allow players to tell their own stories. We dont NEED to have servers and shards.

 

SWTOR is a great game in its own right, as an RPG. But as an MMO why does it feel like such an incredible leap backwards in terms of mechanics and innovation?

[BCBull]

We're not OP come on over to The Secret World.

[Kaphik]

I love SWTOR, but i mean honestly, after getting one guy form each faction to 50 is it really worth it to slog through 90% of the same quests again?

 

And what about after you get all 8 classes(16 really) to 50, what then?

 

We have the ability to do dynamic events in MMOs, we have the ability to allow players to tell their own stories. We dont NEED to have servers and shards.

 

SWTOR is a great game in its own right, as an RPG. But as an MMO why does it feel like such an incredible leap backwards in terms of mechanics and innovation?

 

Your questions have been answered several times already in this thread.

[Zocat]

But im talking about the Journey.

 

I had a GREAT time leveling my first lvl 50 Sith, and lvl 50 Republic, but now? Its just kinda Bleh.

 

MMOs try to hide simple tasks behind the word ‘quest’, and spend a lot of time putting filler around that task to make it seem special. That needs to stop. The reason most people skip flavor text is because there is too much of it and the good gets lost in the bla. If the game wants me to kill ten rats, just have an NPC tell me “go kill ten rats and I’ll give you gold”. Don’t pretend the rat kill task is something epic because the poor static NPC’s family is starving due to the rats getting into his grain bla bla bla. I don’t care, I’m killing rats in order to move my xp bar along, not because I want to save the static NPCs family (which I can’t anyway, and we all know that going into it)

 

It’s scary that actual questing has changed so little in the MMO space, especially with some many PvE-focused games. Playing it safe is certainly the current trend, but how many elaborately written rat kill quests can we stomach?

 

The generic quest is everywhere, and seems to have no bounds to its banality. Sometimes you must "collect 8 rabbit pelts". As a "change of pace" courier mission, "deliver this to the local smith." Without fail, these are boring quests. There is no challenge to them – and throughout level increments, they seem to exist without fail.

 

What a good quest demands is weight of action – the poor, generic quests make the user wonder if, simply out of boredom, Hoppy Harebrain isn't going to make a continent-sized parachute with the billions of rabbit-pelts he undoubtedly receives. A good quest might make you question whether to get the pelts at all, or pursue a similar option through a different vendor. The mechanics of a good quest run deeper than this, however, another overwhelming question emerges – if these can be defined so well, why, oh why aren't there more of them?

 

Honest question:

How would a "good" quest look like? Can you describe it?

What mechanics?

 

You do have choices with the SWTOR quests. Do I return the stolen medicine to the army or give it to the starving chilren. But that's just "flavor" and not real mechanic.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Zocat

[Bocek]

Also, it's not the game that has evolved. The equipment has and so have the players, but the game itself hasn't changed.

 

So when we all use VR equipment it will really feel like i'm slicing that rat in half with my lightsaber .

[Oddzball]

Your questions have been answered several times already in this thread.

Not really, people just try to make excuses for it. "What else do you want" "Thats just how MMORPS are"

 

I gave plenty examples.

 

SWTOR had such a great chance to break open the genre but chose to stick with the herd. Big name backing by BioWare, HUGE budget, great talent, and the made what is essentially a clone of the genre from 10 years ago.

 

Having a living breathing world in an MMO is possible. You can have NPCs that move around, go to work, go home and sleep, go out of a walk etc etc.. that is completely possible.

 

They were doing it back in the 90s. Why hasn't this evolved?

[flyersfan]

Honest question:

How would a "good" quest look like? Can you describe it?

What mechanics?

 

It'd probably look like Mass Effect.

[Kaphik]

Not really, people just try to make excuses for it. "What else do you want" "Thats just how MMORPS are"

 

I gave plenty examples.

 

SWTOR had such a great chance to break open the genre but chose to stick with the herd. Big name backing by BioWare, HUGE budget, great talent, and the made what is essentially a clone of the genre from 10 years ago.

 

Having a living breathing world in an MMO is possible. You can have NPCs that move around, go to work, go home and sleep, go out of a walk etc etc.. that is completely possible.

 

They were doing it back in the 90s. Why hasn't this evolved?

 

You gave out ideas. The reason those ideas are not implemented on a wide scale in MMORPGs is because of money. It costs money to make a game, it costs money to run a game, and the company needs to make money to continue to stay in business. That is why you see those features in smaller games and more often in single player rpgs.

[Oddzball]

You gave out ideas. The reason those ideas are not implemented on a wide scale in MMORPGs is because of money. It costs money to make a game, it costs money to run a game, and the company needs to make money to continue to stay in business. That is why you see those features in smaller games and more often in single player rpgs.

 

It cant be just about money. Take some of these smaller MMOs with tiny teams that have come out with truly innovative features.

 

On a shoe string budget and a small team of developers we have seen things in MMOs that blow my mind. Real time events, realistic shooter/fighter mechanics in an MMO, innovative/interesting crafting systems.

 

They all had their faults, but given the fact that this is BIOWARE one of the most esteemed RPG producing studios EVER, and a HUGE budget/backing from one of the biggest publishers in the business, why did we end up with something that was essentially a rehash of the last 10 years of MMORPGS?

Edited April 19, 2012 by Oddzball

[Kaphik]

It cant be just about money. Take some of these smaller MMOs with tiny teams that have come out with truly innovative features.

 

On a shoe string budget and a small team of developers we have seen things in MMOs that blow my mind. Real time events, realistic shooter/fighter mechanics in an MMO, innovative/interesting crafting systems.

 

They all had their faults, but given the fact that this is BIOWARE one of the most esteemed RPG producing studios EVER, and a HUGE budget/backing from one of the biggest publishers in the business, why did we end up with something that was essentially a rehash of the last 10 years of MMORPGS?

 

So which of those games you mentioned are targeted towards a large audience as this game was. Which ones are still making a profit for their companies.

[Kalaesk]

Not sure if OP is trolling or just dense....

Your questions have been answered you just refuse to admit it.

[Oddzball]

So which of those games you mentioned are targeted towards a large audience as this game was. Which ones are still making a profit for their companies.

 

Why does targeting a large audience have anything to do with it?

Because you have a large audience you cant be innovative or try new game mechanics?

[Red_Vs_Blue]

I understand what you are saying and asking for, but, you can only come up with soo many new things in a mmo that was supposed to challenge WoW. Thus, the constant kill x, although repetitive and boring, makes people feel far more "at home."

[shadowrouge]

Not really, people just try to make excuses for it. "What else do you want" "Thats just how MMORPS are"

 

I gave plenty examples.

 

SWTOR had such a great chance to break open the genre but chose to stick with the herd. Big name backing by BioWare, HUGE budget, great talent, and the made what is essentially a clone of the genre from 10 years ago.

 

Having a living breathing world in an MMO is possible. You can have NPCs that move around, go to work, go home and sleep, go out of a walk etc etc.. that is completely possible.

 

They were doing it back in the 90s. Why hasn't this evolved?

 

Not to sound like a jerk . But they tried that. Its called the Sims MMO. It flopped big time. No one I know that games. Wants to be the average Joe. going to work, taking a walk. Basically doing every thing mundane. They want action and adventure. They want to go kill those rats.

[Oddzball]

I understand what you are saying and asking for, but, you can only come up with soo many new things in a mmo that was supposed to challenge WoW. Thus, the constant kill x, although repetitive and boring, makes people feel far more "at home."

 

Gah, makes me sad really.

 

I had such high hopes that BioWare would break into the MMO scene with something completely out of this world, but what we got was only slightly better then what we had.

 

I mean come on guys, its BIOWARE, they made fricken KOTOR, and BALDURS GATE, some of the most innovative RPGs of their time.

 

Jade Empire, Mass Effect, Dragon Age....

[Oddzball]

Not to sound like a jerk . But they tried that. Its called the Sims MMO. It flopped big time. No one I know that games. Wants to be the average Joe. going to work, taking a walk. Basically doing every thing mundane. They want action and adventure. They want to go kill those rats.

 

I said NPCs. Heroes still get to be heroes. Joe the shop keeper gets to go to work and go home to bed.

[Red_Vs_Blue]

But see all those RPG's are single player, with perhaps a limited mp, so they can be crazy about it. An MMO, unless designed to be crazy, is usually far more tamed and mainstream. Heck, full VO is pretty darn "crazy" when compared to the rest of the mmo market.

[Oddzball]

Not to sound like a jerk . But they tried that. Its called the Sims MMO. It flopped big time. No one I know that games. Wants to be the average Joe. going to work, taking a walk. Basically doing every thing mundane. They want action and adventure. They want to go kill those rats.

 

You know what really would make you sad then? Sims sold 100x more copies of their game then SWTOR. A LOT of people like to do those things.

 

Sims MMO failed because of what was essentially a wrong time/era thing.

 

Look at Farmville. It still has more concurrent users online playing then any MMO ever. And all you do is click on crap and decorate stuff.

[Oddzball]

But see all those RPG's are single player, with perhaps a limited mp, so they can be crazy about it. An MMO, unless designed to be crazy, is usually far more tamed and mainstream. Heck, full VO is pretty darn "crazy" when compared to the rest of the mmo market.

 

Yeah but unsustainable.

 

The voiceover is great to be honest, but a lot of games had full voice over but still turned out terrible.

 

Notice how almost all the new Black Hole dailies weren't voiced?(YOu get them all form a terminal) I dont think they will be able to keep up with voice overs and releasing content quickly enough.

 

Just an opinion but anyway...