Astarica Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yeah I mean we are hard to kite. Not impossible but hard. A good trooper could keep me at bay he will have to hit me with stun when I try to force speed to him, he runs away to start his rotation up. Now if I dont have my pull ready ill just have to cloak out of thats up. If I have cloak, or pull up yeah you are not kiting me. Seriously, someone traded a stun for Force Speed and you're complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassawp Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I went from lethality sniper to shadow tank, and the shadow tank is pretty far from dealing as much damages as a pure dps class. Oh yeah , they got good survivability, good damages and all... But as a simple example : usually when i pops a 5s CD like resilience, ppl continue to attack me blindly instead of just putting a stun or kitting me until it wears off. And it's just an example out of many situations where ppl using their brain would be much more effective than spamming attacks blindly. when he's out of def CDs , the shadow tank's survivability is far from being great. You just die like anyone else. Yes you can stealth escape when you're about to die, but it's not like you're able to be back in the fight in 4 seconds with a full healthbar. ( besides the escape skill is on a 2mn CD, so you just can't escape whenever you want) Shadows/Sins are not ruining PvP... Clueless people are... But hey! l QQ will prevail , as always., so why even bother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) All this QQ about Shadows is just cute. Please continue crying a river. Edited April 20, 2012 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Seriously, someone traded a stun for Force Speed and you're complaining? how did you get a complaint out of that. I was just throwing out a situation that seems to happen from time to time. I hit force speed and sometimes I will get stunned. Sometimes I dont have my pull up (crazy I know). If I have all my tools you are not kiting me. I like how people pull complaints out of nothing on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Because while the two classes you mentioned are indeed overpowered, there are counters to them. I can giggle with delight while interrupting tracer missles. I can somewhat counter a Marauder with force slow / speed, 2 second root, etc, etc.. I have no counter for a Tank Assassin (again, i don't want to forget this caveat, that is well played and in DPS gear). FINALLY PROOF THESE PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS Please do detail how you interrupt Powertech Tracer Missiles. I'd love to hear your counter. While we are at it... lets actually counter the right class with Railshot/Flame burst etc etc. Assassins and Shadows are easy to counter. Soft Counters: 1) CC their TKT/Shock 2) Staying out of melee decreases their burst, and after 15M you limit them to practically nothing but CC and tickle dps. 3) Snare 4) Root 5) DoT to prevent Vanish Hard Counters: Sorc DPS Powertech DPS Operative DPS A Sorc should EASILY be able to outkite. And there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) how did you get a complaint out of that. I was just throwing out a situation that seems to happen from time to time. I hit force speed and sometimes I will get stunned. Sometimes I dont have my pull up (crazy I know). If I have all my tools you are not kiting me. I like how people pull complaints out of nothing on these forums. Usually when people talking about a matchup they don't assume a class is at a CD deficit. Every cooldown you could use to close the gap has a shorter recast time than the generic stun. If Force Shroud is down, a lot of classes have a good chance at defeating us, but with a 45s refresh, that's not going to happen very often. Edited April 20, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I went from lethality sniper to shadow tank, and the shadow tank is pretty far from dealing as much damages as a pure dps class. Oh yeah , they got good survivability, good damages and all... But as a simple example : usually when i pops a 5s CD like resilience, ppl continue to attack me blindly instead of just putting a stun or kitting me until it wears off. And it's just an example out of many situations where ppl using their brain would be much more effective than spamming attacks blindly. when he's out of def CDs , the shadow tank's survivability is far from being great. You just die like anyone else. Yes you can stealth escape when you're about to die, but it's not like you're able to be back in the fight in 4 seconds with a full healthbar. ( besides the escape skill is on a 2mn CD, so you just can't escape whenever you want) Shadows/Sins are not ruining PvP... Clueless people are... But hey! l QQ will prevail , as always., so why even bother... I'm not saying that their sustained damage is a problem. I'm saying it's the burst that, in my personal opinion, is out of line with other tank classes. The game isn't balanced around 1v1 so I don't mind that they are superior duelers, I just think that BW should look carefully at the burst that they can unleash compared to other tanks and bring it in line. I agree with you though, it's certainly no where near game breaking. I just don't like how the spec is *so* good that it's really the only go to spec for Assassins. It would be nice to see some more viability in their other trees, in addition to tuning down tank burst a little bit. Maybe giving them a little more sustained damage. Edited April 20, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You're avoiding my question. I'm not saying that Assassins are OP and I'm not neccesarily hopping on the "Nerf assassin train" but don't pretend like "Just kite me" is an option. There's so many reasons why that's a broken arguement and the fact that you can't answer my question is just proving that. What class kites you? That's all I want to know. Sorcs can. You lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 This guy says say what? http://s1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii489/ephex01/?action=view¤t=Screenshot_2012-04-14_14_57_02_826377-1.jpg V Puts Power in the powertech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 FINALLY PROOF THESE PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS Please do detail how you interrupt Powertech Tracer Missiles. I'd love to hear your counter. While we are at it... lets actually counter the right class with Railshot/Flame burst etc etc. Assassins and Shadows are easy to counter. Soft Counters: 1) CC their TKT/Shock 2) Staying out of melee decreases their burst, and after 15M you limit them to practically nothing but CC and tickle dps. 3) Snare 4) Root 5) DoT to prevent Vanish Hard Counters: Sorc DPS Powertech DPS Operative DPS A Sorc should EASILY be able to outkite. And there Nothing can hard-counter a sin tank in a 1vs1. I know this because I play one. Maybe a l2p issue on your side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorcs can. You lose. More than that tho is why I didn't answer the poster stated don't tell me how to play so to me states why continue to discuss.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorcs can. You lose. That was the one thing I was thinking. Since I don't have a level 50 sorc, I was thinking maybe they had something that allowed you to kite them that they got at 50 that was a game changer for assasins but not Pyrotechs or Juggs. At least those poor buggers have something going for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancer Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorcs can. You lose. HAHAHH ahhh HAHAHHA:D Thank you for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Nothing can hard-counter a sin tank in a 1vs1. I know this because I play one. Maybe a l2p issue on your side? I play one and can counter them all day oh well on my other classes to boot.... Edited April 20, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 More than that tho is why I didn't answer the poster stated don't tell me how to play so to me states why continue to discuss.... Because theory-crafting a 1v1 situation is stupid. I was simply interested in what classes you got kited by. My question had nothing to do with me, and I wasn't asking "How do I kite an assassin?" I was asking you which classes successfully kite you. In a general sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Because theory-crafting a 1v1 situation is stupid. I was simply interested in what classes you got kited by. My question had nothing to do with me, and I wasn't asking "How do I kite an assassin?" I was asking you which classes successfully kite you. In a general sense. No theory actual practice what to look for and when to counter period.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 That was the one thing I was thinking. Since I don't have a level 50 sorc, I was thinking maybe they had something that allowed you to kite them that they got at 50 that was a game changer for assasins but not Pyrotechs or Juggs. At least those poor buggers have something going for them. Um no Sorcs absolutely cannot counter us unless you're talking about Huttball, where the terrain automatically counters everyone with a range less than 30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovaos Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 A Sorc should EASILY be able to outkite. Yes I am able to easily kite them as a Balance Sage. They seem to avoid me most likely for this reason. There have been a few times when they get a good jump on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Um no Sorcs absolutely cannot counter us unless you're talking about Huttball, where the terrain automatically counters everyone with a range less than 30m. They don't counter but a madness can kite easily if they know what they are doing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Yes I am able to easily kite them as a Balance Sage. They seem to avoid me most likely for this reason. There have been a few times when they get a good jump on me. QFT I think yall need nerfing /joke I hate good kiters thank goodness most don't and just take it to the face lol Edited April 20, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 No theory actual practice what to look for and when to counter period.... A clean duel where both players have all their Cooldowns up almost never happens. It's an interesting mental excercise, but I don't usually engage in theory crafting like that because people try to use it as an example of "X class being OP" and that's stupid because it almost never plays out that way in an actual WZ. That's why WZs are interesting, they're about resourcefulness and not flow charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astakhan Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 For some point of reference, I do 9600 damage in one Force Lighting with power adrenal + relic + reckless + 3 charges on the WZ training dummy. I don't know if that's a lot or not since I don't know what the level of mitigation is on that dummy, but it's a constant point of reference. Feel free to post your numbers against the same dummy. If people can regularly hit it fo 10K then Force Lightning isn't overpowered. Ummm, the damage alone is no big deal. That you'e being healed for 9% of your life at the same time... well, that changes the metrics a little doesn't it? ~1500 heal, plus just being in combat stance alone gives your attacks a chance to heal every 4.5 seconds (3 seconds when the CD is blown, on top of the 10% instant heal when blowing the CD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astakhan Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 FINALLY PROOF THESE PEOPLE ARE CLUELESS Please do detail how you interrupt Powertech Tracer Missiles. I'd love to hear your counter. While we are at it... lets actually counter the right class with Railshot/Flame burst etc etc. Assassins and Shadows are easy to counter. Soft Counters: 1) CC their TKT/Shock 2) Staying out of melee decreases their burst, and after 15M you limit them to practically nothing but CC and tickle dps. 3) Snare 4) Root 5) DoT to prevent Vanish Hard Counters: Sorc DPS Powertech DPS Operative DPS A Sorc should EASILY be able to outkite. And there LMFAO Only a non-good Tankassin can't absolutely manhandle a DPS sage/sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Nothing can hard-counter a sin tank in a 1vs1. I know this because I play one. Maybe a l2p issue on your side? Where did I ever say 1v1? When does Balance in an MMO EVER have to do with 1v1? Your forum posts are almost as non-factor as you in WZs on my server. Your LOL Shocks for 3-4k are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ummm, the damage alone is no big deal. That you'e being healed for 9% of your life at the same time... well, that changes the metrics a little doesn't it? ~1500 heal, plus just being in combat stance alone gives your attacks a chance to heal every 4.5 seconds (3 seconds when the CD is blown, on top of the 10% instant heal when blowing the CD). It's 12% of your life (FL ticks 4 times at 3% heal per tick). I think the heal part on FL is overrated because it takes a lot to set up 3 stacks. Killing your enemy stops 100% of his DPS anyway, so I'm far more interested in the offensive capability of the attack than the defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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