Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[Kovaos]

QFT I think yall need nerfing /joke I hate good kiters thank goodness most don't and just take it to the face lol

 

Yeah that's a huge underlying issue for most ranged classes. I don't know why but they feel they need to stand in place and let the auto aim or whatever it is move them around in circles.

[Krytycal]

I play one and can counter them all day oh well on my other classes to boot....

 

Don't let that confuse you though, I kill sin tanks all day erryday on my other classes too. It doesn't mean you're hard-countering them. Maybe you're just a better player. In the almost 70 ranks worth of PvP my sin has I've yet to come across a player that can hard-counter me in a 1vs1.

[Astakhan]

Sorcs can. You lose.

 

How?

 

You have snare, force pull, stuns, stealth, vanish AND the one thing that would help us accomplish this, force speed.

 

We can ae knockback, lol, you have immunity up.

 

We can lift, lol, you have immunity up.

 

We can stun, lol, now we have no counter for your uninerrubtle lightning that heals you for 9%.

 

We can, every 9 seconds, root you for 2 seconds. While we are perma-snared.

 

Stop diluting the argument with fabrications.

[Scoobings]

Ummm, the damage alone is no big deal. That you'e being healed for 9% of your life at the same time... well, that changes the metrics a little doesn't it? ~1500 heal, plus just being in combat stance alone gives your attacks a chance to heal every 4.5 seconds (3 seconds when the CD is blown, on top of the 10% instant heal when blowing the CD).

 

You also need to be fair though: They need a proc for that lightning to be uninterruptable. They can't just spam that whenever. It's definitely solid when it happens, but I'm not sure if that actually pushes it into OP or not yet.

 

I don't actually have that talent on my Assassin yet so I'm not sure. Definitely good but I'm not sure I'd say broken or even OP.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Scoobings

[Astakhan]

Don't let that confuse you though, I kill sin tanks all day erryday on my other classes too. It doesn't mean you're hard-countering them. Maybe you're just a better player. In the almost 70 ranks worth of PvP my sin has I've yet to come across a player that can hard-counter me in a 1vs1.

 

Thank you for being honest. Seriously.

[Astakhan]

It's 12% of your life (FL ticks 4 times at 3% heal per tick).

 

I think the heal part on FL is overrated because it takes a lot to set up 3 stacks. Killing your enemy stops 100% of his DPS anyway, so I'm far more interested in the offensive capability of the attack than the defensive.

 

It literrally takes nothing to setup 3 stacks, they are instant cast.... you are limited only by GCD.

[cycao]

Ummm, the damage alone is no big deal. That you'e being healed for 9% of your life at the same time... well, that changes the metrics a little doesn't it? ~1500 heal, plus just being in combat stance alone gives your attacks a chance to heal every 4.5 seconds (3 seconds when the CD is blown, on top of the 10% instant heal when blowing the CD).

 

Why do you keep saying 9% when it is 12%? As for the combat healing threw dark ward is meh. I would laugh if they take out the self healing as it is the only reason why my guild asks me to tank even though I really rather not. This is another reason why you cannot balance a class around PvP as I think the majority of the subscribers are here for PvE as that is how I felt they were gearing this game towards.

[Zintair]

LMFAO

Only a non-good Tankassin can't absolutely manhandle a DPS sage/sorc.

 

I've beaten Madness Sorcs on my Tank Tank Shadow. I can definitely do it on my DPS Tank one as well. The fact still remains they ARE able to do it if they are good.

 

Considering you don;t even know the difference between powertech and mercenary I'm gonna go ahead and say your all talk.

[Astarica]

You also need to be fair though: They need a proc for that lightning to be uninterruptable. They can't just spam that whenever. It's definitely solid when it happens, but I'm not sure if that actually pushes it into OP or not yet.

 

I don't actually have that talent on my Assassin yet so I'm not sure. Definitely good but I'm not sure I'd say broken or even OP.

 

A lot of people seems to be confused on how Harnessed Darkness works. It grants uninterruptibility for ANY stack, not just at 3. Now Force Lightning itself is limited by a 6 second cooldown, but you can definitely generate a stack of HD every 6 seconds trivially.

[Krytycal]

Where did I ever say 1v1?

 

When does Balance in an MMO EVER have to do with 1v1?

 

Your forum posts are almost as non-factor as you in WZs on my server. Your LOL Shocks for 3-4k are a joke.

 

Oh, so you mean that 3 players can hard-counter 1 player? Genius. You're just as bad at logic as you are at playing sins.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Krytycal

[Scoobings]

How?

 

You have snare, force pull, stuns, stealth, vanish AND the one thing that would help us accomplish this, force speed.

 

We can ae knockback, lol, you have immunity up.

 

We can lift, lol, you have immunity up.

 

We can stun, lol, now we have no counter for your uninerrubtle lightning that heals you for 9%.

 

We can, every 9 seconds, root you for 2 seconds. While we are perma-snared.

 

Stop diluting the argument with fabrications.

 

I dunno... if any class can do it it's sorc don't you think? It's not like they are perma-immune to your KBs and levitate. It's got like a ~40 second CD and it only lasts for ~5 seconds (I don't play my assassin enough to remember exact durations, forgive me). The heal isn't spammable, it's a proc. I mean I'm sure it would be hard to kite them but honestly I feel like sorcs probably have the best shot at it.

[Astakhan]

I've beaten Madness Sorcs on my Tank Tank Shadow. I can definitely do it on my DPS Tank one as well. The fact still remains they ARE able to do it if they are good.

 

Considering you don;t even know the difference between powertech and mercenary I'm gonna go ahead and say your all talk.

 

I don't? I can't interrupt missles? I can't CC them out of it...? Seriously? If there is any sort of LOS near me when engaging a dps commando / merc, I wil win unless they have a pocket healer, period. I have counters for them. I have none for a tankassin, period.

[Scoobings]

A lot of people seems to be confused on how Harnessed Darkness works. It grants uninterruptibility for ANY stack, not just at 3. Now Force Lightning itself is limited by a 6 second cooldown, but you can definitely generate a stack of HD every 6 seconds trivially.

 

Oh, my bad. I thought it had to proc to be uninterruptable.

[Astakhan]

I dunno... if any class can do it it's sorc don't you think? It's not like they are perma-immune to your KBs and levitate. It's got like a ~40 second CD and it only lasts for ~5 seconds (I don't play my assassin enough to remember exact durations, forgive me). The heal isn't spammable, it's a proc. I mean I'm sure it would be hard to kite them but honestly I feel like sorcs probably have the best shot at it.

 

It's true, they have CD's on those abilities.

 

Do you think we do not?

[Astarica]

It literrally takes nothing to setup 3 stacks, they are instant cast.... you are limited only by GCD.

 

Optimal setup for 3 stacks would be Wither X 2 + Shock + FL = 129 Force, which requires 12.4s of regen. Due to Wither getting out of sync after your first FL you'll probably need more time than this in realistic scenarios.

 

On the other hand you can do a 2 stack HD every 7.5s for about 30 seconds before you run out, and most fights are over by then.

 

There's a huge difference in the time it takes to setup 3 stacks and 2 stacks because the third stack forces you to either wait for another full CD on one ofy our HD generator or burn through Force hoping Energize would proc.

 

In the training dummy scenario, a 9600 3 stack lightning would do 8229 damage with 2 stacks, and you can throw out two of them in the time it takes you to setup 1X3 stack. Well Recklessness won't be up for your second FL, but the total damage done is still far more than saving up for the one big boom.

[Zintair]

how?

 

You have snare, force pull, stuns, stealth, vanish and the one thing that would help us accomplish this, force speed.

 

We can ae knockback, lol, you have immunity up.

 

why do we have immunity up ?!?!?! You mean we can time a 5 sec resilience sjust to interupt your faster animation kb? What a scrub.

 

we can lift, lol, you have immunity up.

 

most sorcs in madness run instant cast?!?! How do i immunity an instant cast unless i get lucky?? Nother scrub response that sounds like you cast these things while the resilience buff is up.

 

we can stun, lol, now we have no counter for your uninerrubtle lightning that heals you for 9%.

 

why didn't you save the stun for the first tkt channel? Its going to take 15m range and min 5 gcds to get tkt to heal. What were you doing that you needed to stun before this? Scrub play.

 

we can, every 9 seconds, root you for 2 seconds. While we are perma-snared.

 

root is epic if timed right. You also have force speed scrub. Our snare is either 30% perma or 50% on a cooldown lowering dps all the while dots ticking on us.

 

stop diluting the argument with fabrications.

 

stop enhancing your own with your baddie play calls and substitutions for common sense ability use.

 

*** is this embarrassment you keep posting!!

Edited April 20, 2012 by Zintair

[Scoobings]

It's true, they have CD's on those abilities.

 

Do you think we do not?

 

No, but it's not like they can use them while they're levitated. So to say that you can't levitate them because they're immune is a misleading blanket statement. They're only actually immune for like 5 seconds in the fight. Just don't try to levitate them while they're immune. That's all I'm saying.

[cycao]

I dunno... if any class can do it it's sorc don't you think? It's not like they are perma-immune to your KBs and levitate. It's got like a ~40 second CD and it only lasts for ~5 seconds (I don't play my assassin enough to remember exact durations, forgive me). The heal isn't spammable, it's a proc. I mean I'm sure it would be hard to kite them but honestly I feel like sorcs probably have the best shot at it.

 

45 sec which lasts 5 seconds if talented but anyways. Honestly I only really use force shroud with my first 3 stacks of HD with recklessness and a power adrenal and relic so I know I get the full duration of the affect. After that its back to ok dps. The heal that procs do you mean the one threw the charge? Yeah thats not great.

[Calista_ZK]

LMFAO

Only a non-good Tankassin can't absolutely manhandle a DPS sage/sorc.

 

 

First of all, with force shroud up, that sorc/sage in't going to being doing much except hoping to survive the initial burst, since that tankassin is immune.

 

If the sage is alive after that point, you think that the sage DPS is going to win the fight?

 

More likely the sage is going to survive long enough to get a friend to kill the tankassin.

 

And by the way, i play both classes, on my sin, sorcs are easy, the other way around I don't kill tankassins, but I know them well enough to survive them or HELP kill them, but 1x1, forget it.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Calista_ZK

[Astarica]

I dunno... if any class can do it it's sorc don't you think? It's not like they are perma-immune to your KBs and levitate. It's got like a ~40 second CD and it only lasts for ~5 seconds (I don't play my assassin enough to remember exact durations, forgive me). The heal isn't spammable, it's a proc. I mean I'm sure it would be hard to kite them but honestly I feel like sorcs probably have the best shot at it.

 

You don't need to get into KB range against Sorcs except for Assassinate, and pure Madness builds won't have bubble blind or root KB and plain KBs can't put 10m of distance between the two.

 

The fact that you're fighting a dot heavy spec means their instant Whirlwind most likely won't have any effect on you (it gets broken by their own dot).. You Force Speed out of the first root, and after that you usually are low enough on Force that getting CCed doesn't actually matter (CC only hurts you if you still have Force left to use), or just fire off a FL while you get rooted (can't move while casting anyway).

[Astakhan]

Optimal setup for 3 stacks would be Wither X 2 + Shock + FL = 129 Force, which requires 12.4s of regen. Due to Wither getting out of sync after your first FL you'll probably need more time than this in realistic scenarios.

 

On the other hand you can do a 2 stack HD every 7.5s for about 30 seconds before you run out, and most fights are over by then.

 

There's a huge difference in the time it takes to setup 3 stacks and 2 stacks because the third stack forces you to either wait for another full CD on one ofy our HD generator or burn through Force hoping Energize would proc.

 

In the training dummy scenario, a 9600 3 stack lightning would do 8229 damage with 2 stacks, and you can throw out two of them in the time it takes you to setup 1X3 stack. Well Recklessness won't be up for your second FL, but the total damage done is still far more than saving up for the one big boom.

 

I understand. That being said, I'd rather the ones I fight burn it before 3 stacks, I'd have a chance then. Sorc/Sage damage, no matter the spec is a ramp up, we have no burst, especially since the hybrid nerf. So a Tankassin can just save for the 3rd stack and use it whenever. Granted this is 1v1, but from what I read earlier, dps sages/sorcs are the best counter to them... lol.

[Zintair]

Oh, so you mean that 3 players can hard-counter 1 player? Genius. You're just as bad at logic as you are at playing sins.

 

Yes.

 

Lets pretend like the only PvP at the moment is warzones. Imagine in some crazy way there are other people besides yourself in their. It might even be an 8v8 Balanced match.

 

Lets pretend like in organized PvP each class has a role. If a Shadow or Assassin tank is giving your team trouble. Its like this thing called...

 

FOCUS FIRE

 

 

Its incredible what it can do. Its like your hardswitching from the Healer to the Tank and MELTING him and his squishy self.

 

Don't join a rateds team. Team JOKE rz may not be up to the challenge if your just going to duel people all day in there.

[Astakhan]

*** is this embarrassment you keep posting!!

 

It's embarrasing that you don't know how to anticipate what a Sorc/Sage will do.

 

There's a srub here, you're correct, but it's not me.

 

Funny how there is another Tankassin in this very thread who claims to be able to hard counter everything we have, but you cannot. Who's the scrub?

[Scoobings]

You don't need to get into KB range against Sorcs except for Assassinate, and pure Madness builds won't have bubble blind or root KB and plain KBs can't put 10m of distance between the two.

 

The fact that you're fighting a dot heavy spec means their instant Whirlwind most likely won't have any effect on you (it gets broken by their own dot).. You Force Speed out of the first root, and after that you usually are low enough on Force that getting CCed doesn't actually matter (CC only hurts you if you still have Force left to use), or just fire off a FL while you get rooted (can't move while casting anyway).

 

Well that is definitely the other thing about assassins. They aren't affected by kiting nearly as much as other "true" melee classes. They have a lot of heavy hitting ranged abilities.

[Astakhan]

First of all, with force shroud up, that sorc/sage in't going to being doing much except hoping to survive the initial burst, since that tankassin is immune.

 

If the sage is alive after that point, you think that the sage DPS is going to win the fight?

 

More likely the sage is going to survive long enough to get a friend to kill the tankassin.

 

And by the way, i play both classes, on my sin, sorcs are easy, the other way around I don't kill tankassins, but I know them well enough to survive them or HELP kill them, but 1x1, forget it.

 

Another honest Tankassin, thank you.