I'm pvping about 60% less. Is this really what you wanted?

[rossfenwick]

6. Sub 50s pvp can be extremely unrewarding, so unrewarding it's barely worth pvping, resulting in new players getting a terrible impression of SWTOR pvp. That means fewer new subscriptions. Congratulations, BioWare! You're killing the game. (BTW, this really reminds me of the kind of idiocy I'd see at Warhammer. I really hope you don't have the BioWare-Mythic team working on your PvP enhancements.)

 

This is actually the reason why I quit WAR: there was a big patch around this time last year and pvp turned into me and the other moderately geared players being annihilated over and over by the same groups of players in full pvp gear. Rewards for losing dropped significantly so we were basically forced to be punching bags for the highly geared players in order to gear up. The highly geared players were of course getting rewards more quickly, which meant they advanced though the renown tiers faster, etc etc.

 

As someone with limited free time I made the rational decision to seek more reliable entertainment. Nothing to do with being lazy or wanting a loot piñata or whatever, it just came down to whether or not I wanted to spend my evenings being frustrated or having a good time.

 

This, essentially, is what is happening in SWTOR right now, which leads me to believe that the team from WAR is in fact working on SWTOR's PvP updates.

[Timadan]

 

Getting rewards for losing is stupid. Get over it, bads.

 

However it is necessary to progress in the gear race to keep up with the leets like you. But then you might actually find out that you killed that guy in 3 gcd's because of the time you spent getting the gear advantage. Heaven forbid that should happen.

 

Fckres like you crack me up. Gawn brah tell us how leet you are

[Maladon]

Yeah, I'm pretty sick of idiots talking about how pvp "isn't worth their time". PvPing is for fun.

If SWTOR actually had pvp people would probably do it "for fun". Turns out all we have are a few mini-games that we have to do hundreds of times to get gear so that we can do more mini-games.

 

Hell, if they added real pvp I'd never leave...if all we're gonna get is mini-games there are better versions available elsewhere. Don't act like this version of "pvp" is anything to get excited about, it makes you look stupid.

[Psyclosis]

PvP is not just played for fun. This is an MMO, its about character progression and those who say its not are talking BS. Everyone pvps with a goal in sight, whether its alone or with your friends, you always have a goal in sight (that next pvp upgrade etc). When one spends hours upon hours to gain a fragment towards their goal, they get disheartened and lose interest in it, like such is happening right now.

 

Bioware put the nail in DAOC's coffin when they bought Mythic. They then went on to make an absolute mockery of what should have been a fantastic RvR game in Warhammer. They then make a disaster of SWTOR.

 

Just face facts, Bioware can not do MMO's. They have too many arrogant people at the top of their chain who will not budge on their ideas nor listen to anyone but their own voice.

Not to worry though folks, GW2 soon where we can see some real PvP development come to life. Beta next weekend woohoo.

 

Unsubbed. Have fun with your 50-100 person servers Bioware, you deserved this.

[rossfenwick]

Yeah, I'm pretty sick of idiots talking about how pvp "isn't worth their time". PvPing is for fun.

 

If you really believe this then you should vendor your BM set and come fight in Recruit gear. You'll get the reward of being used as a stepping stone for someone else's advancement through the game. The more you lose, the better they get!

 

To use the sports analogy which is so popular right now: take your car down to the nearest speedway and challenge a NASCAR driver to a race. Whoever wins gets $1000 to put down towards new car parts and whoever loses gets between $0 and $500 to do the same, depending on how close they were to the winner.

 

If you really enjoy competition and you really only want to see who is the best then you'll want to compete against someone with the same equipment as you.

[Ahhmyface]

This gear imbalance bads keep whining about has never existed. It was always easy to gear. I know, because I did it. I didn't even killtrade my bm, I just played warzones in my evenings, back when BM was expensive. Then they made it really easy. Then they made it easier. And then, in 1.2, they made it SO DAMN EASY it's not even funny. Saying "oh i get 20 less comms than I used to" while ignoring the drastically reduced time to gear is just a hilarious habit of forum crybabies.

 

The class balance issues have never existed either. There will always be classes that are better than others, as long as the game lives. Which classes are imbalanced will change, and the game will evolve. It's no big deal, it's never really reduced the fun of the game, or even the outcome, since the classes are mirrored and there are still counters to everything.

 

Along comes rated stuff, and people whine about fighting people better than them.

 

So, it's the gear, its the classes, its the skill. Basically, it's everything, conspiring to make you lose, which is unfair, because your mom said you were the best. The truth is you're not interested in competition. You will never stop whining until your fragile little ego is fulfilled with undeserved glory. And you wonder why we laugh at you.

[Wolfpax]

Along comes rated stuff, and people whine about fighting people better than them.

 

people whine about anything and everything, The reason way they whine like this is due to they suck in PvP in the 1st place.. there are many different ways to get medals now and i you cant get even 6 then dont PvP.. 8 is not a OMG amount.. its about avg to what a lvl 11 can get.

 

And just incase you care, I'm most likey not going to read this thread again so..

[Maladon]

So, it's the gear, its the classes, its the skill. Basically, it's everything, conspiring to make you lose, which is unfair, because your mom said you were the best. The truth is you're not interested in competition. You will never stop whining until your fragile little ego is fulfilled with undeserved glory. And you wonder why we laugh at you.

There is nothing about SWTOR pvp that requires anything resembling skill.

 

Skill? (seriously??)...and you wonder why we laugh at you lol

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

There is nothing about SWTOR pvp that requires anything resembling skill.

 

Skill? (seriously??)...and you wonder why we laugh at you lol

 

Theres no skill involved in this game? Granted it takes considerably less skill to play this game then other competitive PC games.

 

-fuzz

[Ahhmyface]

If you really believe this then you should vendor your BM set and come fight in Recruit gear. You'll get the reward of being used as a stepping stone for someone else's advancement through the game. The more you lose, the better they get!

 

To use the sports analogy which is so popular right now: take your car down to the nearest speedway and challenge a NASCAR driver to a race. Whoever wins gets $1000 to put down towards new car parts and whoever loses gets between $0 and $500 to do the same, depending on how close they were to the winner.

 

If you really enjoy competition and you really only want to see who is the best then you'll want to compete against someone with the same equipment as you.

 

I already did compete with people with the same equipment as me. I won. Actually, I continue to compete against people with the same equipment as me. That's why I have the better equipment now. I'll be ahead of them soon, and then they'll catch up. And a new set of gear will be released, and I'll do it again.

 

Your bad analogy has been debunked so many times on these forums I'm surprised you didn't choke while typing it. A bodybuilder doesn't show up to the gym and whine he's not the biggest on his first day and how everybody else can't "compete". You pay your dues like everyone else, don't expect to be the biggest guy in the gym on the first day. The competition isn't the warzone, it's the building up.

[Ahhmyface]

There is nothing about SWTOR pvp that requires anything resembling skill.

 

Skill? (seriously??)...and you wonder why we laugh at you lol

 

There's skill in everything. I could have a competition to shove a grapefruit up my butt and there would still be one guy out there who was better at it than anybody else. You're not very sharp, so I'll forgive you this once.

[Maladon]

Theres no skill involved in this game? Granted it takes considerably less skill to play this game then other competitive PC games.

 

-fuzz

Do you honestly think there's skill involved in the pvp here? I'm not baiting you, I really want to know. Aside from basic motor skills and entry level game interface knowledge that is.

[Maladon]

There's skill in everything. I could have a competition to shove a grapefruit up my butt and there would still be one guy out there who was better at it than anybody else.

I qualified my comment with regards to basic motor skills and game interface knowledge.

 

ps - it's nice that you found someone, I'm really happy for you two...

[Sickboy_]

There's skill in everything. I could have a competition to shove a grapefruit up my butt and there would still be one guy out there who was better at it than anybody else. You're not very sharp, so I'll forgive you this once.

 

If you think you're so good then vendor all your BM gear and pvp in recruit gear.

 

You'll get stomped in under 4 seconds by people in BM, especially since you're a joke spec(deception LOL).

[rossfenwick]

Along comes rated stuff, and people whine about fighting people better than them.

 

So, it's the gear, its the classes, its the skill. Basically, it's everything, conspiring to make you lose, which is unfair, because your mom said you were the best. The truth is you're not interested in competition. You will never stop whining until your fragile little ego is fulfilled with undeserved glory. And you wonder why we laugh at you.

 

First off, let's get one thing straight: you aren't part of some elite group of awesome people that everyone else wishes they could be and you aren't a psychiatrist with a keen window into other people's inner workings. So let's just get off of that line of discussion.

 

To the point: there is no "rated" stuff. Everyone is playing together. If people who win were getting bumped up into another bracket to play against other people who also win a lot then 90% of the people here wouldn't be complaining. They'd be logged on to SWTOR playing the game.

 

What people are complaining about is that they're being matched against groups whose gear negates their skill, and the more people lose, the better the OTHER team gets, and so on and so on.

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Do you honestly think there's skill involved in the pvp here? I'm not baiting you, I really want to know. Aside from basic motor skills and entry level game interface knowledge that is.

 

Yes sir. Knowledge = skill. If you dont know what to do at certain times you will never be good. This is applied to any sport be it real life or internet. If you dont take the time to research and understand a bunch of different aspects of a game/sport then you wont be able to excel at it.

 

Does teamwork count? If youre able to throw a ball in huttball infront of someone knowing their gonna be there to catch it, is that not contributing to winning? Thats like a QB throwing to a WR before the WR is even in place (granted on a totally different level), but is that not a skill? How about knowing when to rotate on a map, or rotate back because the other 4 scrubby players you got paired up with over rotated?

 

Having indepth knowledge of ANYTHING in life will prove to be an advantage. Hitting buttons is just how you convey that knowledge and skill in this game.

 

If knowledge and teamwork isnt considered a skill. What would they be considered? And why (if they arent) arent they? Is the knowledge and teamwork, although on a totally different level, in professional sports not considered a skill as well?

 

Feel free to debate this.

 

-fuzz

Edited April 18, 2012 by fuzzDONTEVENTRIP

[Tetrablade]

In PvP victory is it's own reward. Kiilling, no slaughtering someones creation IS the reward of PvP. The theory behind PvP initially was that Players e.g. (for the most part) human beings are more challenging to beat than non-player characters.

 

The whole I MUST BE REWARDED FOR DOING EVERYTHING OR ELSE IT WAS NOT FUN + WASTE OF MY TIME is a direct hande-me-down from the brainwashed WoW generation.

 

You don't go to sports day, finish last in the 100m sprint and then ask why you didn't get a trophy. Or maybe you do?

 

If you need rewards in order to have fun PvPing, you are not a PvPer. Period.

 

^This. While yeah I feel the pain of loss, and as a repub I feel it often, i'm just happy to get anything when losing since that is NOT the norm. Lowering the medal count will be nice, but then you will have the afk people back. Most of the points in the original post seem to tell me more about players then bioware's supposed mistakes. At least with the reduced medal count if you can't get any medals then you just need to find a new class.

 

Now, if you were to say that the changes of 1.2 made a certain class far more difficult then they should be then I would have a different say. I play less pvp since I realized that my 41 gunslinger with all her tricks and cc and knockbacks is simply decimated by a lvl 12 marauder or sentinel. Since I haven't played the knight/warrior much I don't understand exactly what bioware changed about these classes, but it was to much. When people are killed just after lvl 10 in seconds then you messed something up somewhere.

[glenbruton]

At least WAR had collision detection. And it launched with seven or eight warzones.

 

What are you talking about? WAR had 3 warzones in each t4 zone (9) plus 1 for each city (2) plus one for each of teir 1,2 &3 (3x3 = 9) . Then they added two(?) with patches. So thats around 20 ! and threee quarters of them were pretty good (unlike...voidstar for example).

 

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Scenario

[krossfade]

You don't know the meaning of the word "logic".

Neither did I claim that rewards are a bad thing. It's just that they are not necessary.

If you don't enjoy pve, it doesn't matter what the rewards are. You're not having fun.

 

If you would quit having fun, because you don't get rewards, you're an idiot.

If it was never fun in the first place, well, glad you saw the light.

 

Getting rewards for losing is stupid. Get over it, bads.

 

Good thing pro-sport teams dont have your stupid logic, no one would play, and u sound like a bad yourself, fyi.

[rossfenwick]

I already did compete with people with the same equipment as me. I won. Actually, I continue to compete against people with the same equipment as me. That's why I have the better equipment now. I'll be ahead of them soon, and then they'll catch up. And a new set of gear will be released, and I'll do it again.

 

Your bad analogy has been debunked so many times on these forums I'm surprised you didn't choke while typing it. A bodybuilder doesn't show up to the gym and whine he's not the biggest on his first day and how everybody else can't "compete". You pay your dues like everyone else, don't expect to be the biggest guy in the gym on the first day. The competition isn't the warzone, it's the building up.

 

So you counter my argument with a non sequitur?

 

But let's run with it. If gyms were like this current PvP setup, you'd have something like this: two guys stand next to each other and lift weights. The guy with bigger muscles gets stronger and gains mass faster, and the guy with smaller muscles gets stronger and gains mass at a rate proportional to the size of his muscles compared to the size of the bigger guy's muscles. The bigger guy gets bigger faster, which causes the ratio to diminish further, causing the smaller guy to get bigger even more slowly. See where I'm going with this?

 

Now that's completely ridiculous, because we are comparing two things which are nothing alike.

[EzronDax]

I'm also PVPing alot less, this time last week i was planning to be working towards War Hero on one 50, Battlemaster on another and wondering if i would have time to level the new Shadow i wanted to make with legacy unlocks, as it turned out i've done as many warzones in a week as i used to do in a day and im currently leveling 3 new alts instead of just the one.

 

Unfortunately ive played alot of MMO's this isnt a new thing, PVP gets "revamped" and it becomes less fun for a while - unfortunately for me when i lose interest in a games PVP i typically lose interest in the game, by the time my free month is up ill likely have 6 50's and if the current PVP system is still in place then ill have nothing to use them for.

[Ahhmyface]

So you counter my argument with a non sequitur?

 

But let's run with it. If gyms were like this current PvP setup, you'd have something like this: two guys stand next to each other and lift weights. The guy with bigger muscles gets stronger and gains mass faster, and the guy with smaller muscles gets stronger and gains mass at a rate proportional to the size of his muscles compared to the size of the bigger guy's muscles. The bigger guy gets bigger faster, which causes the ratio to diminish further, causing the smaller guy to get bigger even more slowly. See where I'm going with this?

 

Now that's completely ridiculous, because we are comparing two things which are nothing alike.

 

You are clearly not aware that an analogy is not a logical argument, but a parallel drawn to aid in understanding. You can't change my analogy, that's not how it works. The point is that this is a king of the hill game. The competition is not just the battle at the top of the hill, but the battle to get there. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that it's still a game, and it's still a competition.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[wessik]

It's been beaten to death and I hope the devs are listening, but I'm starting a new thread, anyway.

 

I used to pvp every time I logged. Sometimes I'd log and do nothing but pvp. I'd pvp with friends, in groups and I'd pug. Since I pvped a lot, I ended up pugging a lot. Pugs lose a lot, but I didn't care. It was fun to pvp and I knew I was working on closing the gear gap. I'm still not in full BM gear, only a couple of pieces, but that's because I play alts a lot.

 

PvP really sucks, now. I'm pvping at least 60% less than I used to.

 

Here's basically the result of 1.2 pvp "enhancements":

1. You've created a huge reward divide. The result is you've made it much more difficult to bridge that divide and gear up since the loser rewards are frankly paltry.

2. When people start losing, they leave.

3. If people start losing too much, they'll stop pvping for a while. Maybe they log, too. I know I do.

4. People bail when their team gets behind.

5. People leave rather than backfill a losing warzone.

6. Sub 50s pvp can be extremely unrewarding, so unrewarding it's barely worth pvping, resulting in new players getting a terrible impression of SWTOR pvp. That means fewer new subscriptions. Congratulations, BioWare! You're killing the game. (BTW, this really reminds me of the kind of idiocy I'd see at Warhammer. I really hope you don't have the BioWare-Mythic team working on your PvP enhancements.)

 

All that adds up to a whole lot less PvPing from everyone. Is this really what you wanted?

 

There might have been some issues with PvP rewards prior to 1.2, but what you've gone to is far worse. As some people have indicated, this might have come about to cater to "hardcore" pvp guilds. I doubt even they're happy with this system. However, if this is the way you want to go for ranked warzones, you need a different reward system for more casual pvpers. You know, the other 80% of your swtor subscribers.

 

If you cater to the hardcore, you'll end up only with the hardcore playing.

 

This is just getting absurd. Please fix the rewards for warzones. I was pretty happy with the 4 medals system prior to 1.2. I'm still not sure why this drastic change came about.

 

(FYI, I still hate expertise and recommend getting rid of it. It causes much of the gear gap problem. The game would be better off without it.)

 

so basically you are saying that taking 4 days to get a BM rifle, the most expensive BM piece, is too hard for you...

completing daily = 400 comms, gun = 1750 comms

 

and you would rather they return it to pre 1.2 where it could take you up to 2 weeks to get the same rifle...

12000 comms (10 matches a day for 12 days)

 

that getting a BM piece every 2 days on average is still not quick enough...

7 BM pieces cost 550-875 comms, 5 pieces cost 975-1750 comms

 

gotcha...

[Torcer]

que times getting worse every day atm

 

Yes, it is now taking me 30 minutes in Prime Time. When I do get in, it's the same damned fully BM geared Premade on Vent stomping Solo quers and Pugs. 1Getting 4 Medals was never my problem - Will BW's "fix" still result in 35 Comms for a lost match when I have 8 Medals? 30 Minute Que Times + 35-50 Comms = PvP not worth it. What kills me is that I LOVED PvP pre 1.2, and now it's just frustrating.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Torcer

[rossfenwick]

You are clearly not aware that an analogy is not a logical argument, but a parallel drawn to aid in understanding. You can't change my analogy, that's not how it works. The point is that this is a king of the hill game. The competition is not the battle at the top of the hill, but the battle to get there.

 

Did you Google that? Well done. I actually expanded on your analogy; you should be thanking me.

 

I can expand on your other point as well: in this particular type of "King of the Hill" game, every time you push someone down the hill it gets a little higher and a little steeper. Not a game most people would pay to play.