Remove the rakghoul plague now

[Meluna]

Hello, everyone! One more quick reminder to please keep the discussion on track. This is a thread for discussing the Rakghoul plague event and your personal feelings on it.

 

If the discussion continues to derail into semantics and nitpicking as to post counts, we will be forced to close it. This is not a constructive or on topic path of discussion, and will not be allowed to remain open.

 

Thank you for your understanding!

[halloandbill]

excues me,i want to know, what level is required to participate this event?

 

The dailies, in the high 20s or so. So anything higher you should be able to go to Tatooine and do them. The standing around on the fleet? 9 or 10.

[Gorgor]

BTW, I apologize for the typos, but I am using am android phone and apparently their browser was built by a chimpanzee who did no usability testing on large text edit fields, making it difficult to edit at best, and literally, not figuratively, impossible in many cases to edit all but the first few lines.

[quantumsheep]

If you were in WoW for the zombie invasion events you know there was massive "complaining" about said event. While many would like to write it off as whining and I was fine with said event and disagreed with their complaints, that does not make them valid.

 

So lets ask ourselves, what were the major complaints about that event and when Bioware decided to do something similar did they address them so as to negatively impact as few people as possible and in the smallest ways possible?

 

1. Complaint: NPC's getting infected therefore entire towns being taken over making people unable to quest, use the Auction House, or log into a city without having to fight off ghouls all over the place.
    
   Bioware response: Don't have the virus infect NPCs allowing people to still go about their business.
   
   1. Complaint: People can chase other players around and infect them, with no option for the player to avoid being infected.
       
      Bioware response: Players will not be able to explode at will but it will be based on time or after a certain amount of time it will occur on death. In addition, the exploding animation will root players in place for a short time allowing those being "chased" to still get far enough away that they will not be infected.
       
      
      1. Complaint: No way to avoid infection or to easily cure the infection without dying or having to interact with other players.
          
         Bioware response: Vaccines available at medical droids/stim vendors for a nominal fee that also cures the disease when applied.
          
         
         1. Complaing: Players don't like being involuntarily infected as it eventually causes death, repair costs, and a corpse run.
             
            Bioware response: No death penalty except for the ingame time that it normally takes to call a "Medical Droid" for an in place resuscitation. The in place resuscitation will not add to the normal time penalty for repeated use of the in place option to revive in a small time frame. In addition we will, upon death, give players the currency used for the event as compensation.
            

 

If you look at it you can just see the amount of thought that went into making this event as pain free as possible for those that did not necessarily want to participate.

 

Great post. This is pretty much what would have happened.

 

That some people don't like it, is unfortunate for that minority, but hey, they're entitled to their opinion.

 

To continue to erroneously use emotive language to bolster their points, is pretty sad really, and dilutes the validity of their opinion.

 

Still, it's all just opinions, right?

 

QS

[Skolops]

I want to elaborate on this post that Talyora made in the last iteration of this thread.

 

I agree completely and the event got me thinking, not about what is wrong with this event but on how Bioware went about learning from the possible mistakes of MMOs past to try to make theirs better.

 

If you were in WoW for the zombie invasion events you know there was massive "complaining" about said event. While many would like to write it off as whining and I was fine with said event and disagreed with their complaints, that does not make them valid.

 

So lets ask ourselves, what were the major complaints about that event and when Bioware decided to do something similar did they address them so as to negatively impact as few people as possible and in the smallest ways possible?

 

1. Complaint: NPC's getting infected therefore entire towns being taken over making people unable to quest, use the Auction House, or log into a city without having to fight off ghouls all over the place.
    
   Bioware response: Don't have the virus infect NPCs allowing people to still go about their business.
   
   1. Complaint: People can chase other players around and infect them, with no option for the player to avoid being infected.
       
      Bioware response: Players will not be able to explode at will but it will be based on time or after a certain amount of time it will occur on death. In addition, the exploding animation will root players in place for a short time allowing those being "chased" to still get far enough away that they will not be infected.
       
      
      1. Complaint: No way to avoid infection or to easily cure the infection without dying or having to interact with other players.
          
         Bioware response: Vaccines available at medical droids/stim vendors for a nominal fee that also cures the disease when applied.
          
         
         1. Complaing: Players don't like being involuntarily infected as it eventually causes death, repair costs, and a corpse run.
             
            Bioware response: No death penalty except for the ingame time that it normally takes to call a "Medical Droid" for an in place resuscitation. The in place resuscitation will not add to the normal time penalty for repeated use of the in place option to revive in a small time frame. In addition we will, upon death, give players the currency used for the event as compensation.
            

 

If you look at it you can just see the amount of thought that went into making this event as pain free as possible for those that did not necessarily want to participate. I'm sure there will/have been wrap up meetings to discuss how events like this could be improved in the future and how to address some unintended consequences (like people just standing around in fleet to get DNA tokens) but overall they should be happy of how they implemented their first world event.

 

These are all good points and I agree with them with one exception. Namely, it's been demonstrated by testing that the plague does incure some small repair cost. At least its been reported in these threads.

 

I know that amateur statisticians around here are starting to claim large amounts of people like/dislike the event based on these threads. I won't offer numbers as really Bioware are the only ones that really have a clue, but I will point to what is the normal M.O. for these forums when there is something that people do not like about a decision or change in the game.

 

I've got a degree which makes me a bit more qualified than an "amateur statistician, thanks

 

Typically, the forum explodes with not just one but many threads relating to said change and those threads are normally negative in their nature. Leading to the moderators to have to close and redirect people to the designated thread for discussion constantly.

 

Redirecting players is the general policy of this forum; its not particular to this topic or to complaining in general.

 

This has not been the case with this event You've had one long thread (and continuations) that's been heavily discussed my a relatively small number of people on both sides arguing back and forth. There have been some "Pop-In" commenters on both sides but really it's been the same people pushing this thread to its fourth iteration. My suspicion is that Bioware will be very pleased with how this event occurred with a relatively small amount of complaining compared to other things around here. I'd say they did exceptionally well making the event an overall positive one for the game and its player base.

 

Can they make it better? Sure, and I wouldn't be surprised to see such things as the vaccine persisting through death occurring the next time around. In addition they really should look into the involuntary flagging of players for PvP, but that sounds like a bug not a design choice.

 

I agree with Talyora that this is a nice first step in making the galaxy a more dynamic one and if Bioware has more of this planned for the future we're in good hands.

 

I think they've done largely a good job, with a few things that are just maddening in their obviousness that were not accounted for.

 

It's also more than 3 or 4 people who are consistently posting. On both sides of the issue, there are a large number of "pop-ins" with I'd say over these 4 threads about 8 or so people on each side posting with some level of consistency.

[Saahh]

(like people just standing around in fleet to get DNA tokens)

 

I found going to tat, and continue to pull infected npc's around the crash site worked better. You had a chance at loot/coin, XP(legacy), and it infected you. Once The infection progressed to stage 2, I stripped my armor off and pulled another group but didn't fight back. Died by POPplosion and then revived and rinsed repeat. YaY DNA!

 

Seemed to be a lil less mind numbing, got 2 purple 33 proto drops and didn't go near any players who are totally against this event, since they wouldn't be caught dead around the very site right?

[Lundli]

because it went over 1000 posts, and since it's the thread people were being directed to, they're continuing to have discussion in it.

 

if you actually look at the posters 2 or so of them (-Slaughterhouse- the OP and oakamp) are actually calling for the event to be ended compared to the (at least) 30 or so that are in favor of having an opt out mechanism.

 

I think the OP has cooled off a bit now, he has edited his post.. guess he couldn't change the thread title, so that makes only one then.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lundli

[Kissakias]

since the buff lasts so many hours, take it and do your stuff, dont bother me

BUT...

bother me that they spend developing hours to create such things while the game dont have LFG tool and free transfer for dead servers

 

those 2 should be their priorities, nothing else

its so unfair to sit on Ilum just to find ppl to do false emperor and since i want to do and other FPs need to be in 2 places at same time

Edited April 18, 2012 by Kissakias

[DieAlteHexe]

since the buff lasts so many hours, take it and do your stuff, dont bother me

BUT...

bother me that they spend developing hours to create such things while the game dont have LFG tool and free transfer for dead servers

 

those 2 should be their priorities, nothing else

its so unfair to sit on Ilum just to find ppl to do false emperor and since i want to do and other FPs need to be in 2 places at same time

 

You can stop being bothered.

 

There are different teams that work on this game. The team that does events is not going to be the team that works on UI stuff or wrangling bugs or graphics or story. They aren't interchangeable.

[Elhanan]

Oops! New one already!

 

I shall continue to post as it is the poor Player behaviour I wish to be corrected; not the Events themselves. Forcing one to play is not fun for me; more than likely some others feel that way, too.

[halloandbill]

I found going to tat, and continue to pull infected npc's around the crash site worked better. You had a chance at loot/coin, XP(legacy), and it infected you. Once The infection progressed to stage 2, I stripped my armor off and pulled another group but didn't fight back. Died by POPplosion and then revived and rinsed repeat. YaY DNA!

 

Seemed to be a lil less mind numbing, got 2 purple 33 proto drops and didn't go near any players who are totally against this event, since they wouldn't be caught dead around the very site right?

 

I'm with you, I'd rather do something like that than just stand around but as we've all seen over the years MMO players will always take the easiest path to whatever "shiny" thing they want and AFKing in fleet is easier than actually doing something.

[dhoytman]

It isn't like it's going to be going on for another month...only about another week. Why complain?

 

And for the record, I very much enjoy this event.

Edited April 18, 2012 by dhoytman

[DieAlteHexe]

I'm with you, I'd rather do something like that than just stand around but as we've all seen over the years MMO players will always take the easiest path to whatever "shiny" thing they want and AFKing in fleet is easier than actually doing something.

 

Right now, for me it is. Our 'Net connectivity is teh suq right now. Not sure why but moving is pretty painful. So, instead of missing out entirely...yeah, plague party.

 

I did manage to get to Tattooine twice before it all went haywonky though and it's a ton of fun even if you do get ganked a lot sometimes. Hope I can get back there before it's all over.

[ferroz]

There are different teams that work on this game. The team that does events is not going to be the team that works on UI stuff or wrangling bugs or graphics or story. They aren't interchangeable.

partially true. The teams probably have significant overlap.

 

the people who come up with events are different than the people who make ui or wrangle bugs, and graphics. But they're probably the same (or heavily overlap) with the people who do story. And the UI/bug wranglers/graphics people are involved in the content updates as well, they just don't design the event itself most likely.

[Elhanan]

Thought this may help a little; from the RoC:

 

Harassment Policy

 

Our goal is to build a strong community that offers a comfortable atmosphere for all of our players. This means seeing that players have the ability to combat antisocial behavior

1.

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

 

2.

Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported.

 

3.

Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

 

4.

A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history.

 

5.

Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

I believe points 1 and 5 may be relevant to the Griefing part of the discussion. Thanks!

Edited April 18, 2012 by Elhanan

[Gorgor]

Right now, for me it is. Our 'Net connectivity is teh suq right now. Not sure why but moving is pretty painful. So, instead of missing out entirely...yeah, plague party.

 

I did manage to get to Tattooine twice before it all went haywonky though and it's a ton of fun even if you do get ganked a lot sometimes. Hope I can get back there before it's all over.

 

Iwas on Tatooine and went back to the station. Was standing at the mailbox and boomp! I thouht someone had Kolto-bombed me.

[DieAlteHexe]

partially true. The teams probably have significant overlap.

 

the people who come up with events are different than the people who make ui or wrangle bugs, and graphics. But they're probably the same (or heavily overlap) with the people who do story. And the UI/bug wranglers/graphics people are involved in the content updates as well, they just don't design the event itself most likely.

 

Alrighty...I'll consider the nit picked.

 

The point stands.

[DieAlteHexe]

Iwas on Tatooine and went back to the station. Was standing at the mailbox and boomp! I thouht someone had Kolto-bombed me.

 

Sunday was when connectivity started going really bad for us. I was in Tattooine and there was an explosion...which I now know was someone exploding. This flagged me for PvP and the next half hour was a real slice. I swear I was getting a couple frames per second, it truly was a slideshow and I kept getting ganked over and over. I was laughing it was so pathetic.

 

I managed to get the daily done, and one other quest and had to give it up. I figured I was SOL 'til our issues get straightened out so I was really happy about the "plague parties", it gives me a chance to get DNA and has had the nice side-effect of meeting some great folks!

 

This event rocks!

[EVGoon]

I'm having a great time with this event, seems like so is everybody else on the server.

People are actually talking and playing together, and that's a significant change.

 

Can anybody suggest a good BBQ sauce for Tauntaun?

[Saahh]

semantics

 

bam

 

Edited April 18, 2012 by Saahh

[Lundli]

I believe points 1 and 5 may be relevant to the Griefing part of the discussion. Thanks!

 

Leave that judgement to Bioware, if you feel you are being harassed, make a ticket ingame. Dragging it onto the forum is not very constructive.

[halloandbill]

These are all good points and I agree with them with one exception. Namely, it's been demonstrated by testing that the plague does incure some small repair cost. At least its been reported in these threads.

 

I did not see said posts nor said repair costs when I did my standing around in fleet. I specifically checked if there were repair costs when I died and had none. I do wish I'd thought of killing myself on Tatooine instead though, would have been infinitely more fun.

 

I've got a degree which makes me a bit more qualified than an "amateur statistician, thanks

 

Color me corrected. However, bad or incomplete data skews any attempt at statistics and you should know that. We also know through our study of social behavior that customers are more likely to go out of their way to complain to a company than to compliment a company. That's what makes this an odd case when you may have more positive than negative comments.

 

Redirecting players is the general policy of this forum; its not particular to this topic or to complaining in general.

 

You missed the point. I'm aware that redirecting is the policy. However, what normally happens when Bioware changes anything?

 

We see one big thread that people are redirected to (and those of us that actually bother to read before we post( post in that thread. Everyone else opens up a new thread (I guess because they're special snowflakes) to complain about the same thing. That thread ends up closed and the person is redirected. We do not see that large amount of ancillary threads in this case. Unless everyone that's ever posted has turned over a new leaf (yeah right) that is counter to a large portion of this forum's history. How many threads a day do we get just about server populations?

 

I think they've done largely a good job, with a few things that are just maddening in their obviousness that were not accounted for.

 

It's also more than 3 or 4 people who are consistently posting. On both sides of the issue, there are a large number of "pop-ins" with I'd say over these 4 threads about 8 or so people on each side posting with some level of consistency.

 

I didn't say "3 or 4". I said "relatively small number of people" which in relation to say the subscription base or even users of the forums it has been a relatively small number. I'm not picking a fight, just like to be quoted accurately.

Edited April 18, 2012 by halloandbill
Forgot something.

[Elhanan]

Leave that judgement to Bioware, if you feel you are being harassed, make a ticket ingame. Dragging it onto the forum is not very constructive.

 

I did it not only in aiding my point, but in reminding others to Report it if possible. I failed to do so IG at the time, and encourage those with like complaints to Report them with docs if that is viable.

[Miyaka]

Thought this may help a little; from the RoC:

 

 

 

I believe points 1 and 5 may be relevant to the Griefing part of the discussion. Thanks!

 

No one is misusing the mechanics. The mechanics are for the plague to spread..and a quest to infect other players.

It isn't a misuse of mechanics to do quests and participate in the event AS DESIGNED.

 

Nor is it PvP. No one is fighting anyone.

It's still not griefing, though I see that you insist on insulting other players and calling them names.

[Gorgor]

If we had "hectic" servers, you could go the other direction, with people, after 2 days, turning *into* rakghouls, then you could go attack people on the station. Edited April 18, 2012 by Meluna