Which SW Book(s) would you like to see as a movie?

[YoshiRaphElan]

The problem I have is that every author is trying to one-up the last author in terms of abilities and powers of the THEIR character to the detriment of the overall story. Every single conflict is always more dangerous than the last one. Every "bad guy" must have a meaner super special ability than the last bad guy.

 

The heroes always have some magical device or a super power that saves the day. Or they have psychic abilities and can read minds at all times. Then there is the problem of unintelligent writers writing supposedly "highly intelligent" characters without having any idea whatsoever what high intelligence even looks like.

 

Take the latest book as an example. Annihilation.

 

So this dude has this magical thingamajic up his butt that makes imperial security worthless. I mean, he doesn't have super powers, so he must have unexplained magical devices instead, right? Then we, of course, must spend half the book discussing mommy issues as well, right? Talk about padding....

 

The baddie has this super advanced and super secret thingamajick ship that operates on the Force, somehow (it's never explained in any detail) and the only thing that can stop is this dude and his magical device that works on a PROTOTYPE ship that is fueled by the force? So, tell me, where did he get this god device and why doesn't every SIS agent have such a device? I mean, it's just a small stick, you'd imagine that a device that can disable EVERYTHING with an imperial logo on it would be, you know, handy?

 

The book is terrible.

 

And what about Revan? Yet another nerd fantasy by Drew which A) completely ***** on the entire character of the Exile, making her a whining padawan and B) Makes Bastila sound like a teenager. That guy must have gotten A LOT of rejection from women in high school.

 

I can understand your point, but Annihilation isn't even close to the top of the list as far as Star Wars novels go. I suggest you read Shatterpoint, the Republic Commando series, Traitor in the NJO series (best book in the series, maybe even one of the best SW books ever), etc. if you haven't yet before you make your opinion on overall Star Wars novels. Now, the Republic Commando novels aren't for everyone (some think Karen Traviss focuses too much on Mandalorians; me, I just say it's an author who is taking a break from Jedi to focus on another culture), but they are definitely quality books. And Traitor? Whoa, it takes your views of the Force, chews them up, and spits them out as something totally different, and then has an awesome climax courtesy of Ganner Rhysode.

[GAG_Caedus]

Legacy of the force series.

[MajinEddie]

A rated R Bane move. Something Old reblic would also be nice. Nothing with the skywalker name please.

[Jandi]

I can understand your point, but Annihilation isn't even close to the top of the list as far as Star Wars novels go. I suggest you read Shatterpoint, the Republic Commando series, Traitor in the NJO series (best book in the series, maybe even one of the best SW books ever), etc. if you haven't yet before you make your opinion on overall Star Wars novels. Now, the Republic Commando novels aren't for everyone (some think Karen Traviss focuses too much on Mandalorians; me, I just say it's an author who is taking a break from Jedi to focus on another culture), but they are definitely quality books. And Traitor? Whoa, it takes your views of the Force, chews them up, and spits them out as something totally different, and then has an awesome climax courtesy of Ganner Rhysode.

 

I was just giving an example of horrendous writing and chose the latest book. I'm not going to write a summary of every single SW book LOL. Deceived was "ok" but again, the characters just aren't believable and when someone portrayed as intelligent is a complete moron in the next chapter, it just makes me shut the book and move on. Sorry, but when high ranking and experienced Sith Lords act like 5 year old autistic kids there is no excuse.

[zzoorrzz]

this one: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Wookiee-Readers-Level/dp/0756611571

 

no, just kidding

[MajinEddie]

. Sorry, but when high ranking and experienced Sith Lords act like 5 year old autistic kids there is no excuse.

 

You just described Darth Vader perfectly.

[YoshiRaphElan]

I was just giving an example of horrendous writing and chose the latest book. I'm not going to write a summary of every single SW book LOL. Deceived was "ok" but again, the characters just aren't believable and when someone portrayed as intelligent is a complete moron in the next chapter, it just makes me shut the book and move on. Sorry, but when high ranking and experienced Sith Lords act like 5 year old autistic kids there is no excuse.

 

If you're referring to Deceived in that last sentence...at what point are you referring to? I don't remember Malgus actuing like an idiot at any point in the book.

[October]

Honestly, none of them.

 

People should read some proper books and they would realize that if you strip away the SW IP, they are most, if not all, incredibly mediocre to downright terrible. You can look at a list called something like "pitfalls of bad writing", open any SW book and see that they are riddled with these pitfalls. It's slightly above fan-fiction quality but not much.

 

I would even go so far as to say that the only reason anyone reads them at all is because SW fans are hungry for lore and SW stories and care nothing for the quality of the books.

 

I have noticed that some books have horrible writing in them, but I still enjoyed Bane's trilogy quite much and can't remember too many errs.

[Jandi]

If you're referring to Deceived in that last sentence...at what point are you referring to? I don't remember Malgus actuing like an idiot at any point in the book.

 

No, but other Sith did. Malgus is the best Sith around as I don't believe he's actually dead.

 

Off-topic, but I think Malgus will become the next vessel of the Emperor, it fits perfectly with how they built him up as the opposite to Satele.

[Euphrosyne]

Now, the Republic Commando novels aren't for everyone (some think Karen Traviss focuses too much on Mandalorians; me, I just say it's an author who is taking a break from Jedi to focus on another culture), but they are definitely quality books.

The problem I have with Traviss isn't that she decided not to focus on Force users. Plenty of other authors have done that and created extremely deep and interesting characters and plot lines with barely a hint of the Force anywhere. Look at the X-Wing books, for instance: outside of Corran Horn and Tyria Sarkin, neither of whose Force sensitivity is all that important to much of anything, they're basically straight, well-written military sci-fi. Almost all of the characters can't use the Force. And, you know, they still do pretty impressive things. Horn might've been good, but he still couldn't outfly Wedge Antilles, or Turr Phennir.

 

What bugged me the most about her books is that they really were focused on Force users, but in a different way: framing characters in opposition to them, instead of not really taking them into account. Mandalorians, and their weird (and vaguely off-putting) Romano-Maori warrior code nonsense, were built up as sort of "normal" alternatives and opponents to Jedi, sort of working-class heroes that thought the Force was mostly a bunch of cheap tricks and did their best to belittle Jedi philosophy wherever they could. Traviss' novels feature a bunch of Jedi that Mandalorians effectively try to mold in their own image, to varying degrees of success: Etain Tur-Makan, Kubariet, Jaina Solo. To make them less like Jedi and more like themselves.

 

It's not quite "trying to take the Force out of Star Wars", but it's something vaguely similar, and arguably more disconcerting. It's like the creation of an anti-Jedi in every aspect, a sort of competition: "we can be better than the Jedi at everything they do, and we don't need the crazy mind powers to do it". And that's ridiculous.

 

And instead of these Jedi or Sith as role models, we get a bunch of blood-drunk thugs. At least the Force users are objectively "special": they have access to truly remarkable powers. Mandalorians have a goofy-looking conlang, a history of brutality, a vaguely defined sense of a warrior's code just like every other violent society in history, and a knack for being the ultimate incredibly annoying and hard to extirpate minority that tries to punch above its weight.

 

Besides, you know how Guss talks about how infuriating it is to be lectured on patience by a kid? Being lectured on honor by a collection of genocidal barbarians that sell their services to the highest bidder is about in the same class.

[darthnamel]

What bugged me the most about her books is that they really were focused on Force users, but in a different way: framing characters in opposition to them, instead of not really taking them into account. Mandalorians, and their weird (and vaguely off-putting) Romano-Maori warrior code nonsense, were built up as sort of "normal" alternatives and opponents to Jedi, sort of working-class heroes that thought the Force was mostly a bunch of cheap tricks and did their best to belittle Jedi philosophy wherever they could. Traviss' novels feature a bunch of Jedi that Mandalorians effectively try to mold in their own image, to varying degrees of success: Etain Tur-Makan, Kubariet, Jaina Solo. To make them less like Jedi and more like themselves

 

Individuals of a majority. The Mandalorians are individuals that look after their own. Now I am pro-jedi/sith/mando. But seeing as individuals in a community or society could be different due to the environment they are from and the experiences that they have faced. Look at the anti-Jedi sentiment among the Fate of The Jedi populace, as well as after the Treaty of Coruscant. Also during the Vong War the Republic turned against the Jedi for the death of Ithor. Jedi could be blamed for more damaging wars compared to the Mandalorians. One example would be the Great Hyperspace War that showed the Jedi penchant for committing genocide on the Republic's orders.

 

Bardan Jusik had a good reason to leave the Order and become a Mando. The Order had made exclusive use of a slave/clone army. But since Jedi were the one that held the moral high ground they have any right to a slave army. Etain led to a development as an individual and a Jedi. Jaina just needed a new fight style. Now not all Mandos are good, but not all are like Cassus Fett. Like Canderous Ordo they could be steeped in hate but beneficial to the Galaxy.

[YoshiRaphElan]

The problem I have with Traviss isn't that she decided not to focus on Force users. Plenty of other authors have done that and created extremely deep and interesting characters and plot lines with barely a hint of the Force anywhere. Look at the X-Wing books, for instance: outside of Corran Horn and Tyria Sarkin, neither of whose Force sensitivity is all that important to much of anything, they're basically straight, well-written military sci-fi. Almost all of the characters can't use the Force. And, you know, they still do pretty impressive things. Horn might've been good, but he still couldn't outfly Wedge Antilles, or Turr Phennir.

 

I'm not going to disagree with you, the X-Wing books rocked, and were almost Jedi-empty with Corran being the biggest Jedi symbol (for most of the book Tyria tried to ignore her powers).

 

What bugged me the most about her books is that they really were focused on Force users, but in a different way: framing characters in opposition to them, instead of not really taking them into account. Mandalorians, and their weird (and vaguely off-putting) Romano-Maori warrior code nonsense, were built up as sort of "normal" alternatives and opponents to Jedi, sort of working-class heroes that thought the Force was mostly a bunch of cheap tricks and did their best to belittle Jedi philosophy wherever they could. Traviss' novels feature a bunch of Jedi that Mandalorians effectively try to mold in their own image, to varying degrees of success: Etain Tur-Makan, Kubariet, Jaina Solo. To make them less like Jedi and more like themselves.

 

It's not quite "trying to take the Force out of Star Wars", but it's something vaguely similar, and arguably more disconcerting. It's like the creation of an anti-Jedi in every aspect, a sort of competition: "we can be better than the Jedi at everything they do, and we don't need the crazy mind powers to do it". And that's ridiculous.

 

And instead of these Jedi or Sith as role models, we get a bunch of blood-drunk thugs. At least the Force users are objectively "special": they have access to truly remarkable powers. Mandalorians have a goofy-looking conlang, a history of brutality, a vaguely defined sense of a warrior's code just like every other violent society in history, and a knack for being the ultimate incredibly annoying and hard to extirpate minority that tries to punch above its weight.

 

Besides, you know how Guss talks about how infuriating it is to be lectured on patience by a kid? Being lectured on honor by a collection of genocidal barbarians that sell their services to the highest bidder is about in the same class.

 

Think about this, though. Wouldn't the Jedi do the same thing? A Jedi sees a Force sensitive Mandalorian, and what's the first thing they're going to do? They're going to do everything in their power to turn them into a Jedi. It's kind of the same thing. If a Mandalorian sees a Jedi with a bit more grit, will to get things done without skirting the issues like the Jedi of that time tended to do, I see no problem with them converting. And I never found the Mandalorian culture to be "blood drunk," they just sought honor in battle. They didn't choose to kill just for murder's sake. In fact, Kal Skirata's probably one of the most sympathetic Mandalorians of all, with a wife and children who not only divorced him as a husband as father, they expected him to send them millions of credits and, when he didn't, they completely shut down contact with him.

 

Now, Mandalorians may not be as good at everything Jedi do, but they're good at a lot of things, and the fact is they don't need mind powers. Honestly I have zero issues with Traviss' books, even though I can kind of see where you're coming from. What's a "conlang?" And their honor code is very developed. Traviss gave them a code, the Resol'nare, and with help she even developed a language. And I don't agree with you about Guss' line, anymore than I agree with Guss himself. It is ridiculous, maybe, but if that four-year-old happens to understand the Jedi Code...? I wouldn't call the Mandalorians genocidal. They don't have it out to murder any one being, they just fight for honor, and maybe they don't even always kill. Their glory is in battle, but there are honor duels too, like in KOTOR 2, where there is no chance of killing your target, but it still gives honor in combat. And they're not exactly barbarians. They're just as culturally advanced as the rest of the galaxy...just ruder and more violent.

[Euphrosyne]

Think about this, though. Wouldn't the Jedi do the same thing? A Jedi sees a Force sensitive Mandalorian, and what's the first thing they're going to do? They're going to do everything in their power to turn them into a Jedi. It's kind of the same thing. If a Mandalorian sees a Jedi with a bit more grit, will to get things done without skirting the issues like the Jedi of that time tended to do, I see no problem with them converting. And I never found the Mandalorian culture to be "blood drunk," they just sought honor in battle. They didn't choose to kill just for murder's sake. In fact, Kal Skirata's probably one of the most sympathetic Mandalorians of all, with a wife and children who not only divorced him as a husband as father, they expected him to send them millions of credits and, when he didn't, they completely shut down contact with him.

 

Now, Mandalorians may not be as good at everything Jedi do, but they're good at a lot of things, and the fact is they don't need mind powers. Honestly I have zero issues with Traviss' books, even though I can kind of see where you're coming from. What's a "conlang?" And their honor code is very developed. Traviss gave them a code, the Resol'nare, and with help she even developed a language. And I don't agree with you about Guss' line, anymore than I agree with Guss himself. It is ridiculous, maybe, but if that four-year-old happens to understand the Jedi Code...? I wouldn't call the Mandalorians genocidal. They don't have it out to murder any one being, they just fight for honor, and maybe they don't even always kill. Their glory is in battle, but there are honor duels too, like in KOTOR 2, where there is no chance of killing your target, but it still gives honor in combat. And they're not exactly barbarians. They're just as culturally advanced as the rest of the galaxy...just ruder and more violent.

The problem is that we see very conflicting interpretations of the Jedi, as is normal for an organization that's existed for just about forever and which has played a role in a helluva lot of the stories written and filmed about Star Wars. We know that they take a lot of Force-sensitive people to train them; we also know - or, I suppose, it's strongly implied - that the Jedi can't possibly train even a tiny fraction of all the Force-sensitive beings in the galaxy, given the numbers provided, and there's nothing indicating that they even try. We've seen Jedi leave the Order for various reasons, and by and large, it seems as though the Order is generally accepting of people who find that they have needs that the Jedi can no longer fulfill, like Thracia Cho Leem and the post-Naboo pre-Clone Wars Dooku. We've seen Jedi react strongly against even training some people with incredible Force sensitivity and power, purely because they don't believe that the Order is right for them (and vice versa). We've seen some Jedi act painfully paternalistically, and we've seen some pretty ham-handed "conversion" attempts, but those are relatively few and far between, like that one HoloNet News entry from around the time of the outbreak of the Clone Wars about an orphaned girl who'd been admitted into the Order but whose parents turned out to actually be alive later on, and who wanted her out.

 

So I don't really think that the Jedi and Traviss' Mandalorians are comparable in that regard. But the whole proselytization angle is secondary. It's not really why I dislike them.

 

This whole self-righteous honorable warrior garbage is what really annoys me. You see the Mandalorians nuking Serroco or slaughtering almost every single Cathar, and then you see them going on and on about tests of strength, and courage, and all that garbage. Things like genocide, or fighting for the highest bidder, make a mockery of any claims to overweening honor that they could possibly have. It's like watching Lost Causers go on about the chivalry of the Southern gentleman while conspicuously ignoring the whole slavery thing - slavery, of course, being a crucial element of Mandalore the Ultimate's reformed society - or Wehrmacht fetishizers going on and on about the likes of Rommel or Manstein fighting an honorable war 'for Germany' (or, disgustingly, portraying something like the Ostfront as holding the dam back against the 'Slavic/communist hordes') while ignoring that that also meant fighting 'for Hitler' and, later, fighting 'for the Holocaust'.

 

And that's, of course, aside from the whole issue of whether it's even possible to find glory in battle. I, for one, think that most of those sorts of people you read about in human history who are known for that sort of thing - the likes of the Spartans, or Richard Coeur de Lion, or the Teutonic Knights, or the samurai - were, in fact, blood-drunk thugs whose so-called code only served to obfuscate the fact that they were people who had power and abused it by, among other things, killing a lot of other people. The only sense in which the Mandos are any different is that Traviss introduced not only that element, but also, confusingly, tried to merge it with some sort of mythological idea of the yeoman farmer, Cincinnatus and Odysseus and George Washington and Goran Beviin and all that stuff, as though those things could even theoretically coexist.

 

I refer to the Mandalorians as barbarians not merely for this genocidal, fight-happy stuff. Because, you know, lots of people are like that in the Republic, too. But at least in most other societies, there's the general sense that neither one of those things is a Good Thing. Certainly in the Republic, the Alliance, and its subsequent governments. But even in the Empire, you got the sense that the average citizen viewed things like the Ghorman Massacre or the destruction of Alderaan as sad necessities in order to maintain security and prevent the horrors of, say, Separatism. Whereas the Mandalorians don't give that sense at all. For them, fighting isn't a sad necessity, it's a force that gives life meaning and a way to demonstrate one's skill and one's honor. Massacres and genocides aren't horrible things to be avoided at all costs, they're part and parcel of doing war the Mandalorian Way . It's not a statement on Mandalorian technology, or anything like that.

 

None of this is to say that everything about Traviss' books is bad, full stop, end of discussion. I liked that she explored the morality of using a cloned army, for example. That was probably the best angle. It would've been nice if she hadn't introduced so many lore problems and lacunae vis-a-vis the GAR, but, you know, most of those have been fixed by now, so whatever, and it's nice that she at least tried to put in the effort. And yes, Skirata is in many respects a sympathetic character, but, you know, sympathetic characters exist in more or less every work of fiction ever.

 

"Conlang" is short for "constructed language", like Klingon, Quenya, or, yes, Traviss' skeleton of Mandalorian. I think it's goofy, but, you know, whatever floats your boat. Putting the effort into making it was certainly commendable. I know that a lot of people at TFN, for instance, would argue that Traviss was a hack, and that she wrote her books as generic military sci-fi without the Star Wars. I see where they'd come from, but I don't think I would take it nearly so far, and I don't think you can really impugn her work ethic, considering stuff like Mando'a. But it definitely contributed to the general sense of insularity you get from Traviss' books: that they're for a certain Mando-loving community, steeped in things fairly peculiar and specific to that community. People tend to have strong reactions to that stuff.

 

They're also one of those series of books that's well known to people that are relatively new to the EU. A lot of people who really got into Star Wars in the last decade might not know all that much about Thrawn, or the Han Solo Trilogies, or the Rogues and Wraiths, or the NJO. But they know about the Bane trilogy, and they know about Republic Commando, and they sort of see those as the be-all end-all. For somebody who grew up with Brian Daley and Tim Zahn books, and who thinks that Traitor is unequivocally the best EU book ever, this sort of viewpoint gets a little frustrating, especially when it seems like people aren't all that willing to look beyond those two series to other stuff.

 

I wouldn't say that I hate the Mandos, or Traviss' books, but I don't really care for them.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Euphrosyne

[YoshiRaphElan]

This whole self-righteous honorable warrior garbage is what really annoys me. You see the Mandalorians nuking Serroco or slaughtering almost every single Cathar, and then you see them going on and on about tests of strength, and courage, and all that garbage. Things like genocide, or fighting for the highest bidder, make a mockery of any claims to overweening honor that they could possibly have. It's like watching Lost Causers go on about the chivalry of the Southern gentleman while conspicuously ignoring the whole slavery thing - slavery, of course, being a crucial element of Mandalore the Ultimate's reformed society - or Wehrmacht fetishizers going on and on about the likes of Rommel or Manstein fighting an honorable war 'for Germany' (or, disgustingly, portraying something like the Ostfront as holding the dam back against the 'Slavic/communist hordes') while ignoring that that also meant fighting 'for Hitler' and, later, fighting 'for the Holocaust'.

 

I understand you, and I'll have to agree to disagree about our opinions on the Mandalorians and even the Republic Commando novels, but I have to say one thing, here. The Mandalorian who nuked Serroco and Cathar were different people than the Mandalorians of Traviss' novel. Those Mandalorians were led my Mandalore the Ultimate, who was being controlled by the Sith (unwillingly). Mandos actually consider nukes and other similar weapons to be dishonorable, so really I can't agree with you on that point. And I don't exactly agree with the German parallels. The Mandos (except for, again, the ones being controlled by the Sith) almost never fought for anyone who did completely evil things like the Holocaust. They were just warriors who made money doing what they were best at–fighting.

 

And I have to say, Republic Commando and Darth Bane were pretty much responsible for introducing me to a lot of different parts of Star Wars: Bane to introduce me to greater dark side lore and, indirectly, into Star Wars fandom itself, and Republic Commando introduced me to the non-Jedi portions of Star Wars, which before reading them I did not care about at all, but now have at least an equal amount of love for (like the clones and Mandalorians). But I love the Thrawn trilogy. More than love it. It is a great piece of EU history. And I haven't read the Daley novels (yet) but they're on my list. Traitor? Hah! Wonderful book. Love it. Best book in the NJO, one of the greatest in EU. Made me a huge Jacen Solo fan and made me so sad when Jacen eventually became Caedus.

[Euphrosyne]

I understand you, and I'll have to agree to disagree about our opinions on the Mandalorians and even the Republic Commando novels, but I have to say one thing, here. The Mandalorian who nuked Serroco and Cathar were different people than the Mandalorians of Traviss' novel. Those Mandalorians were led my Mandalore the Ultimate, who was being controlled by the Sith (unwillingly). Mandos actually consider nukes and other similar weapons to be dishonorable, so really I can't agree with you on that point. And I don't exactly agree with the German parallels. The Mandos (except for, again, the ones being controlled by the Sith) almost never fought for anyone who did completely evil things like the Holocaust. They were just warriors who made money doing what they were best at–fighting.

The thing is that those are hardly the only instances of atrocities committed by Mandalorians. Go back into the farthest reaches of the Mandalorian past and you find the extinction of the Fenelars, or the massacres of the Tlönians, historical instances that also, according to in-universe historians like Vilnau Teupt, also provided much of the basis of Mandalorian cultural mythology. Go to the events of SWTOR itself and you see Mandalorians participating in, for instance, the Sith massacres on Taris. And even the likes of the True Mandalorians and the Death Watch were hard to separate from one another, and were arguably more an issue of personality conflicts - Mereel against Vizsla, Fett against Montross - than a meaningful dispute over the difference between a warrior code-based society and one in which the Mandos indiscriminately hit back at everybody that they perceived to have wronged them, ever. When Mandalorians fought on the side of the Empire - and, sometimes, the Rebellion - it was rarely an issue of morality, but of price.

 

And then, about the Mandalorian War itself. No Mandalorian is on record as stating that what the Mandos of the 3900s BBY did was bad. Mandalore the Ultimate pretty much created the idea of the Manda'yaim, although he was aided in that by the religious reformation Mandalorian society underwent shortly before the GSW - going from worshiping Kad Ha'rangir to war itself. Those warrior codes that the likes of Aga Awaud and the True Mandos prized so highly, the ones that provided a cornerstone of Traviss' books, came from the same man who wiped out Althir, Serroco, Cathar, and all those other worlds. You can't simply set those events aside and blame them on the Sith, as though Mandalorian society had no part in it.

 

Any society that founds itself on fundamental principles of violence and warfare is going to be intrinsically savage, regardless of any ostensible warrior codes or ideas of honor. They're just lipstick on a pig. You're free to like those sorts of things, I suppose; I'm not out to change anybody's mind.

And I have to say, Republic Commando and Darth Bane were pretty much responsible for introducing me to a lot of different parts of Star Wars: Bane to introduce me to greater dark side lore and, indirectly, into Star Wars fandom itself, and Republic Commando introduced me to the non-Jedi portions of Star Wars, which before reading them I did not care about at all, but now have at least an equal amount of love for (like the clones and Mandalorians). But I love the Thrawn trilogy. More than love it. It is a great piece of EU history. And I haven't read the Daley novels (yet) but they're on my list. Traitor? Hah! Wonderful book. Love it. Best book in the NJO, one of the greatest in EU. Made me a huge Jacen Solo fan and made me so sad when Jacen eventually became Caedus.

That's good! It's awesome when somebody's introduced to the entirety of the EU through a few of the books. What bugs me is when somebody reads just a few of those books and then decides that they're the best things ever and refuses to read any other ones. And when those few books are some of the more mediocre ones in the IP, it's even worse.

[YoshiRaphElan]

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. To me, those Mandalorians are a generation apart from the ones during TCW and later. Because the Death Watch and True Mandalorians can actually be separated. Death Watch still commits atrocities like the ancient Mandos did. Even looking at the Open Seasons comic, Death Watch went into a village and Vizsla said to take what they wanted, hinting at sexual assault. The True Mandalorians would never do such a thing; they believe in the family dynamic too much. And that's one of the biggest things I love about Mandos; their family-centric culture. To them, the only thing that is more important than war is family, but they love their families above all. But to me, the whole honor through violence doesn't bother me, as I love stories about the soldier's life. And that's what Mandalorians basically are–soldiers, they're just for hire. So, mercenaries really, but I still love them. But again, agree to disagree. It won't make me less inclined to discuss this with you.

 

And I agree with you, and I'll add this: I hate it when people do the opposite; read some mediocre EU and decide "oh, this must all be awful, I'm never reading any again." It annoys me because there's so much awesome out there, they just won't give it a chance.

[Euphrosyne]

See, I'm perfectly fine with stories about soldiers' lives. I love the X-Wing series, for instance, and the straight military stuff in, say, Zahn's novels, always gets me tickled. (Why don't we know more about the Battle of Xa Fel? Aaaaagh.) I mean, I've immersed myself in real-world academic military history practically since I was old enough to read. War makes for good reading.

 

But there's a very long stretch between stories about soldiers doing their thing and a culture that glorifies war and violence for what they are. War can be institutionalized savagery in service of a cause that - hopefully - justifies the violence itself. Or it can be institutionalized savagery that is self-justifying. One of those things is morally dubious; the other one is unequivocally immoral.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Euphrosyne

[YoshiRaphElan]

But there's a very long stretch between stories about soldiers doing their thing and a culture that glorifies war and violence for what they are. War can be institutionalized savagery in service of a cause that - hopefully - justifies the violence itself. Or it can be institutionalized savagery that is self-justifying. One of those things is morally dubious; the other one is unequivocally immoral.

 

I really do understand your point, I just don't necessarily agree with it. I don't think they necessarily worship violence in and of itself (or at least, they don't during the Clone Wars era), they just think violence brings honor, so the purpose of the violence is to gain honor. Does that justify it? Maybe not. It does in their eyes, I can understand it; maybe it doesn't in yours. That's just fine. I, personally, still don't find a problem with it.

[SirUrza]

Heir to the Empire trilogy.

[TalonVII]

Well books to be made movies out of star wars?

 

X-wing Series of books. Don't even deal with the force. Straight fighter combat and in the wraith squadron books, commando work/starfighting.

 

Thrawn books. I still vainly hope that 7-9 will be the Thrawn books, but I doubt it.

 

Shadows of the Empire. Great book, good game, AWESOME movie if ever done.

 

I Jedi. Again nothing being out done, just a good book.

 

Courtship of Princess Leia.

 

If people say that all the EU books are horrible, then you haven't read some of these good books.

[Kaedusz]

Many things would be awesome to be seen in a movie.Kotor series,Tales of the Jedi comics,SWTOR class stories.

 

But if it has to be books.Bane would be superb.However i can't imagine them making a movie .Maybe a 3D movie,something like Clone Wars would be good,but without the childish/cute elements seen in Clone Wars , with a darker atmosphere and more realistic animations.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Kaedusz

[Jandi]

Been reading the Thrawn books and I honestly do not see what the fuss is about.

 

It's also incredibly funny because they are written with no idea about timelines or notions of what a Jedi actually is and just lumps every force sensitive person as a Jedi and evil ones are Dark Jedi and that's it.

 

Like, it's supposed to be 5 years afters Endor yet 44 years ago was "during the clone wars" and the clone wars most certainly did not last for 24 years lol. The picture the books paint about the pre-EP4 times is completely incorrect in every regard. And yes I know it was written before EP1 came out but, reading it now is just pointless as it contradicts so much other lore and especially g-canon.

[Euphrosyne]

Been reading the Thrawn books and I honestly do not see what the fuss is about.

 

It's also incredibly funny because they are written with no idea about timelines or notions of what a Jedi actually is and just lumps every force sensitive person as a Jedi and evil ones are Dark Jedi and that's it.

 

Like, it's supposed to be 5 years afters Endor yet 44 years ago was "during the clone wars" and the clone wars most certainly did not last for 24 years lol. The picture the books paint about the pre-EP4 times is completely incorrect in every regard. And yes I know it was written before EP1 came out but, reading it now is just pointless as it contradicts so much other lore and especially g-canon.

They were written back before Lucas even had a concrete idea about when he wanted to make those things happen. Zahn consulted with Lucasfilm, West End Games, and every other possible Star Wars reference source out there. For the books' time, they were extremely accurate. But for the most part, they were sailing into uncharted territory, and that shows.

 

Regardless, though, virtually none of the major plot points is really affected by the mis-dating of the Clone Wars or the unusual age of Joru(u)s C'baoth or any of the other "errors". It's not like the entire plot of the books depended on an extra couple of decades between the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War. Arguably, the events of the books make more sense with the timeline the way it is. You can mentally change them around to the modern version of events quite easily and the story still works. Zahn himself wrote an entire book - Outbound Flight - reconciling his version of the Clone Wars and the Outbound Flight Project with the prequel trilogy. And other comments, like Pellaeon's recollection of fighting against clones, were fixed by the insertion of things like the Saleucami campaign in Star Wars: Republic. In the twentieth-anniversary editions of the Thrawn trilogy books, Zahn's footnotes refer to all of this quite nicely.

 

What's most important about the story is how it provided the basis for "what happens next" after Endor and created a plausible and exciting set of challenges for the young New Republic to overcome, along with the single most memorable and dangerous villain apart from the movies themselves. In so doing, it really defined the EU. Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the Han Solo trilogy might've come first, but in terms of influence, we are all of us living in the shadow of Thrawn.

[Jandi]

Reading the entire post you're replying to would be appreciated if you want to have a serious discussion.