Chomag Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Players who need add ons an mods... l2p I hear you don't need macros if you're a pve clicker. Good luck with that. Edited December 21, 2011 by Chomag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazer Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 +1 to this, deffo needs some more customization to the ui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzalch Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) Seriosly I played DPS, Tank en heal in Wow and never used such add ons that made me use only few buttons... For me the challenge was to do my best without those mods and I liked it. You take away a lot of things with those add ons and after you got them everyone cries weh, all is to easy? Make it as spartanic as possible. EDIT: The UI costumization part I am all for btw. but not add ons and macro's beside that Edited December 21, 2011 by Arzalch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylfarin Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 EDIT: The UI costumization part I am all for btw. but not add ons and macro's beside that Macros are a complete part of custom UIs, I am not for add-ons as I dont believe they are needed in any game. What I mean by macros are part of custom UIs: I dont want to have my UI filled with action bars if I can just pack up abilties that make sense for me into 1 key, using modifier keys - if you dont think it's the exact same thing as putting x abilties onto x action bar slots then I dont know what to tell. Saves me screen estate and that's what matters. Macros are not scripts, they do not offer automation of gameplay, if you think so then you are mixing things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodanaz Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Macros are not scripts, they do not offer automation of gameplay, if you think so then you are mixing things up. The problem is that people think macros like in some programs like Excel, which may well BE scripts, as they can do a whole lot more than what we are asking for. Add in the Macro-capable keyboards/mice that really CAN automate things (by making key presses separated by a specific amount of time) and you get where people misunderstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Talking about Rift's 3 buttons macros... Hell if you decided to macro on 3 buttons, that's you problem. If you want more challenge, just macro less, that is all. If you complain because you think you are getting killed in PVP by newbies because they are using this method, then you might not be as good as you think you are... Macros trivialize reactiveness. Example: When you have a skill that only becomes available after a certain combat condition is met - like dodge or block, and is off the GCD list. Let's use Retaliation in the Pally Tree for Rift. When you macro <Retaliation> to every skill you have, so that you never have a chance of missing it when it is available - you have just automated a function of the game that was designed to be a reaction. That is BS if you ask me. I play this game to react to combat conditions - make the right decision, and have fun. This takes enjoyment out of the game for me, when I know every other noob playing is not reacting to the conditions that I am, instead they are just getting extra damage to a 2skill macro'ed attack. In order to compete, because yes - I am not faster than an automated script, I have to macro this ability as well. So the mere presence of macros being available for combat use - has effected my gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) It's a bit shameful when people who can walk use them. But hey, if you're a bit lame in one leg, feel free. Shameful? Who does use one? They don't really make you go faster. Now skis, skis do help you in the right conditions. Or Rollerskates. Or running shoes. A Crutch? No, why would I use one if I weren't being hindered in some other way that the crutch effectively compensates for? So I can't even understand why you're trying to shame people when you can just shake your head and laugh at what they think they're doing. Edited December 21, 2011 by Colobulous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Game that is just over a day old doesn't have a totally customizable UI and awesome mods yet? GASSSPPP! The game is months, even years old, and if they had done their design properly from the start, it'd be possible to customize it even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Seriosly I played DPS, Tank en heal in Wow and never used such add ons that made me use only few buttons... Which don't even represent most addons, but what few they represent are ones that set up your keybinds for you. Make it as spartanic as possible. That is what some people do with addons. EDIT: The UI costumization part I am all for btw. but not add ons and macro's beside that UI Customization and Addons are the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Macros trivialize reactiveness. Example: When you have a skill that only becomes available after a certain combat condition is met - like dodge or block, and is off the GCD list. Let's use Retaliation in the Pally Tree for Rift. When you macro <Retaliation> to every skill you have, so that you never have a chance of missing it when it is available - you have just automated a function of the game that was designed to be a reaction. What you don't realize is the reason that happens. It's because there's no benefit for you to individually choose a reaction, it's just an auto-use. That is a design fault, not a usage fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 What you don't realize is the reason that happens. It's because there's no benefit for you to individually choose a reaction, it's just an auto-use. That is a design fault, not a usage fault. WRONG. There is no design fault in a game developer making a skill that does good damage only available after a defensive condition has been met. There is NOTHING wrong with that design. It forces you to pay attention. It forces you to react to game play conditions. That is the reason developers put those types of skills in games. Macro's trivialize it. And they in essence - play the game for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 WRONG. There is no design fault in a game developer making a skill that does good damage only available after a defensive condition has been met. There is NOTHING wrong with that design. It forces you to pay attention. It forces you to react to game play conditions. That is the reason developers put those types of skills in games. Macro's trivialize it. And they in essence - play the game for you. You just gotta laugh at people like this who take the game and how others like to play waaaaay to seriously, chill out and get a life man, geeze. "play the game for you" lol too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckThePug Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) People not wanting add-ons, are generally the people that were refused from raids and stuff cause their DPS was too low . . No, they were the people playing MMOS before the crutches you WOW generation can't live without. Edited December 21, 2011 by ChuckThePug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have no problem with chat macros - I have no problem with UI's that are cosmetic change in Nature. What I do have a problem with is combat based macros like the one I listed What I do have a problem with is UI's that present combat information in a manner that is blatantly warning you of danager, blatantly alerting you or healers to debuffs, and blatantly tracking dot's and hot's. When UI's alert us to those conditions with big flashing signs, or loud banging noises - other than the way the current UI does it - it trivializes the encounters, and it trivializes viable skills in PvP that are instantly cleansed removed by those types of classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 No, they were the people playing MMOS before the crutches you WOW generation can't live without. Yeah, and they were bad in those mmos as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) You just gotta laugh at people like this who take the game and how others like to play waaaaay to seriously, chill out and get a life man, geeze. "play the game for you" lol too much. If you don't have to activate the skill, and a macro does it instead, how is that not the game playing itself. I'll wait for a defender of Macros to dispute this with a reasonable explanation. Other than design flaw. Please. Many games have these types of defensive reactive abilities - or chains so to speak - that get macroed into 1 button , 2 to 3 combat moves. How is getting 3 individual skills used by only pressing 1 button - the game not playing itself? Edited December 21, 2011 by Chewpaco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 WRONG. There is no design fault in a game developer making a skill that does good damage only available after a defensive condition has been met. You did not understand what I said. Read it again. There is NOTHING wrong with that design. It forces you to pay attention. It forces you to react to game play conditions. That is the reason developers put those types of skills in games. Except it doesn't force me to pay attention, because as I said, it's auto-use. There's no attention being paid, because you benefit by putting it on every button, which if you'd read what I said in the first place, you'd have understood already. See why I blame the design? Because it lets that choice be productive. Macro's trivialize it. And they in essence - play the game for you. No, not all of them. Some just do things like let me set up more ways to use the same action button, or add an emote to my statement, or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturneus Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, and they were bad in those mmos as well. Lol give any one of those players a few hours to master the simple-minded style of play associated with WoW and they'd make the WoWfed generation of MMOers look like complete and utter scrubs. Guarantee that an enchanter from EQ used to keeping high number of mobs mezzed manually with no addons and an old school interface would have 0 problem not standing in the fire or dispelling debuffs in a wow raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If you don't have to activate the skill, and a macro does it instead, how is that not the game playing itself. OMG you are right! All macros are voice or mind activated! I'll wait for a defender of Macros to dispute this with a reasonable explanation. Other than design flaw. Please. Many games have these types of defensive reactive abilities - or chains so to speak - that get macroed into 1 button , 2 to 3 combat moves. How is getting individual skills used by only pressing 1 button - the game not playing itself? You are still playing the game because you have to activate the macros. And there is only one popular mmo out right now that lest you bind more then two combat moves to one macro and that's Rift. WoW has done a good job on limiting macros while still keep them useful. And pressing a lot of buttons and instead of pressing a few doesn't equal skill btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have no problem with chat macros - I have no problem with UI's that are cosmetic change in Nature. What I do have a problem with is combat based macros like the one I listed Your problem is you're blaming the wrong people. It's the developers who created that situation. What I do have a problem with is UI's that present combat information in a manner that is blatantly warning you of danager, blatantly alerting you or healers to debuffs, and blatantly tracking dot's and hot's. Really? I think the whole point of a good UI is to avoid an invisible field of death that's hidden by obscurity and difficulty. Why would I play a game with a bad UI? When UI's alert us to those conditions with big flashing signs, or loud banging noises - other than the way the current UI does it - it trivializes the encounters, and it trivializes viable skills in PvP that are instantly cleansed removed by those types of classes. Yeah, I think the problem you have is you think that the game should be made difficult through a painful UI. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lol give any one of those players a few hours to master the simple-minded style of play associated with WoW and they'd make the WoWfed generation of MMOers look like complete and utter scrubs. I knew some people who came from EQ to WoW who sucked so that argument is null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blamminator Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, and they were bad in those mmos as well. Nice comeback, now go to your fifth period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) You did not understand what I said. Read it again. Except it doesn't force me to pay attention, because as I said, it's auto-use. There's no attention being paid, because you benefit by putting it on every button, which if you'd read what I said in the first place, you'd have understood already. See why I blame the design? Because it lets that choice be productive. No, not all of them. Some just do things like let me set up more ways to use the same action button, or add an emote to my statement, or... It's not auto -use. It is auto use when it is macroed on to every skill. When you receive that skill in Rift - it has it's own Icon, and it is meant to be put in its own space on a hot bar, and meant to be activated when conditions are met and it is available by a SEPARATE signle key stroke. I said before - I have no problem with non-combat type of macros, like the chat /emote type you have listed. I have no problem with auctioneer, onebag, or other types of UI upgrades. UI's that display combat conditions in a different manner with flashing lights, or loud noises change the way we perceive combat conditions, and thus - should not be allowed. Everyone should see combat conditions the same. If BioWare feels the need to upgrade it's user interfface so that it gives us the information people like you are seeking - dot timers, hot timers, debuff timers, boss alerts - fine. I am all for it. As long as everyone is using the same UI, and seeing the combat conditions exactly the same. Edited December 21, 2011 by Chewpaco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamataKahn Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nice comeback, now go to your fifth period. You know nothing about me, so responding like you think you do shows your ignorance, so stop embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturneus Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I knew some people who came from EQ to WoW who sucked so that argument is null and void. Chances are they were rejects from EQ Or not serious raiders (there are plenty of social players there) Players who suck at raiding don't get to raid in EQ at all, I know when I was playing if you couldn't do your job to perfection on a planar raid you were removed, the content was just too strict to allow for dead weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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