Help Bioware, My Trooper Is No Longer Fun To Play

[Star-ranger]

I'm not a power player. I'm not a PvP'er. I'm a casual player and I play SWTOR with my wife, who is also not a power player or PvP'er.

 

I used to enjoy playing my Commando. My wife used to enjoy playing her Commando. But we don't enjoy playing our Commandos any more.

 

The problem is not with the nerfs to Mortar Volley or Grav Round, although those have negative quality of life effects on our characters.

 

The problem is with survivability. It's simply not fun to repeatedly die over and over in PVE situations which before were not exceptionally challenging.

 

We're reasonably decent players, but our characters are dying very very fast. They can't tank anymore. It's like they don't have any armor on. Even our smugglers and sages have better survivability toe to toe than our troopers.

 

I tried a repeatable mission for the second time on Alderon and my trooper went down quickly (less than 20 seconds) in a situation where they had survived before. My wife had similar problems with a mission on Taris. She's to the point where she doesn't want to play a trooper any more.

 

Both of us used to think our troopers were one of the funner classes to play. Now we think they suck.

 

This is a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

It should also be mentioned that with the increase in cost to powers we're running out of juice to fight in half the time we were before. That's not a good thing.

 

I know you guys want to make PVP more competitive, but you've penalized PvE players to balance PvP...

Edited April 14, 2012 by Star-ranger

[Redcorn]

With ya, but don't hold your breath on a fix. The commando is working as BW intends.

[Icebergy]

You really didn't get nerfed very hard, mostly you were rebalanced to where you shouldn't be spamming grav round like you were before. If you are still spamming grav round, thats probably why you are struggling.

[Ratahpla]

I started a Trooper just prior to the patch. I had an excellent opportunity to compare before and after effects of the patch, as the patch rolled back most of my missions. Gee, thanks Bioware. So, I started redoing all of those mission requirements I had previously done, in exactly the same areas with exactly the same spawns.

 

Not good, not good at all. Situations that had been trivial before were life threatening now. The difficult parts from before were flatly impossible now. It isn't my play style; I know what combination of skills to use to get maximum DPS.

 

I'm giving it everything I've got, and I just run low on ammo and health far too quickly, and spend my time waiting for anything to recharge. Medpacks are definately used more often now.

 

All of this isn't unexpected though. The big nerf always gets applied in the first big update. I have definately sworn off subscribing to any game until after the nerf.

 

I know I'm not alone in my dissatisfaction, just look at the post update server populations.

[Star-ranger]

You really didn't get nerfed very hard, mostly you were rebalanced to where you shouldn't be spamming grav round like you were before. If you are still spamming grav round, thats probably why you are struggling.

 

You obviously have not played a trooper in PVE at the lower levels since the release of 1.2.

 

As I stated. It's not the nerfs to mortar and grav that are the problems. It's the inability to resist or avoid damage to the point where you just watch your health line crash in a fraction of the time it previously took in the same situations.

 

There is also an increase in cost. Grav round is supposed to stack 5 times, but using grav rounds 5x will completely drain your bar so there's nothing left to use a move to take advantage of the armor reduction. If they wanted to reduce the use of Grav round in the rotation they should have lowered the damage and upped the armor reduction without affecting the cost. That way when people had stacked it 5 X they would switch to another high damage shot.

 

If they didn't want people spamming it, then they shouldn't have made the -armor effect stack and given it nice damage at the same time.

 

But all that's moot. It's not grav round that's the problem, my wife's character doesn't even have grav round yet and her trooper's dying in a fraction of the time it did before.

 

It's the survivability that's the problem. We seem to be generating more agro and we have less protection... and we're going down fast.

[Ratahpla]

You obviously have not played a trooper in PVE at the lower levels since the release of 1.2.

 

As I stated. It's not the nerfs to mortar and grav that are the problems. It's the inability to resist or avoid damage to the point where you just watch your health line crash in a fraction of the time it previously took in the same situations.

 

There is also an increase in cost. Grav round is supposed to stack 5 times, but using grav rounds 5x will completely drain your bar so there's nothing left to use a move to take advantage of the armor reduction. If they wanted to reduce the use of Grav round in the rotation they should have lowered the damage and upped the armor reduction without affecting the cost. That way when people had stacked it 5 X they would switch to another high damage shot.

 

If they didn't want people spamming it, then they shouldn't have made the -armor effect stack and given it nice damage at the same time.

 

But all that's moot. It's not grav round that's the problem, my wife's character doesn't even have grav round yet and her trooper's dying in a fraction of the time it did before.

 

It's the survivability that's the problem. We seem to be generating more agro and we have less protection... and we're going down fast.

 

I'll second that. It is right on the money. In their haste to cater to the end game players, they have completely f**ked up low end play balance.

[Star-ranger]

With ya, but don't hold your breath on a fix. The commando is working as BW intends.

 

Frankly I think it's a dark side conspiracy. BW developers have always favored the Empire over the Republic. Hardly a surprise when they find a class that just might challenge their insidious evil they sabotage it.

[V-Serp]

The problem is with survivability. It's simply not fun to repeatedly die over and over in PVE situations which before were not exceptionally challenging.

 

We're reasonably decent players, but our characters are dying very very fast. They can't tank anymore. It's like they don't have any armor on. Even our smugglers and sages have better survivability toe to toe than our troopers.

 

I know you guys want to make PVP more competitive, but you've penalized PvE players to balance PvP...

 

I have a Sage and Trooper. The Sage generally dies easier and the damage is really only from DOTs now. I think they nerfed everyone except Sent/Mara.

[edenbass]

I 100% disagree with people on here saying that the nerf was meant to effect only players who spam grav round. I do not spam grav round and my class is virtually unplayable in pvp now. I dont have nearly as much dps and survivability I once had. Once somebody gets in close I am dead periond. Also I am always running out of ammo before I can even bring a single target's hp half way down. There is a huge difference in game play since the patch. If the nerf stick I will not be around for another month.

[Senscith]

I 100% disagree with people on here saying that the nerf was meant to effect only players who spam grav round. I do not spam grav round and my class is virtually unplayable in pvp now. I dont have nearly as much dps and survivability I once had. Once somebody gets in close I am dead periond. Also I am always running out of ammo before I can even bring a single target's hp half way down. There is a huge difference in game play since the patch. If the nerf stick I will not be around for another month.

 

Its not unplayable but its much more difficult now. Survivability was overall nerfed for all classes, but Troopers/BHs have always had poor defensive cooldowns compared to other classes. The major issue is a mix between the more pvp damage as well as nerfing our defensive talents from Gunnery.

 

I can still deal out effective damage and I still hit at least top 3 damage in a warzone if not top. The issue now is that I don't have enough damage to burn down Agent/Smuggler healers, they can out heal the damage I can put out. And whenever anyone get on me (Every imp on my server re-rolled either Marauder/Assassin/Operative) I get ton apart like I'm wearing social gear with no armoring piece in it. I used to be able to go toe to toe and give anyone a run for their money if not win as a Gunnery Mando. Now I'm ****ed against anyone 1v1.

 

tl;dr Gunnery is awesome for supporting fire, **** for everything else.

[erei]

You really didn't get nerfed very hard, mostly you were rebalanced to where you shouldn't be spamming grav round like you were before. If you are still spamming grav round, thats probably why you are struggling.

 

Maybe you should learn to play a commando before talking.

Let me give you a free lesson :

there is 10 feats related in one way or another to grav round in the gunnery tree. Increasing DPS, survability, and used to help with energy management. Some of them need 5 stacks of buffs from 5 grav round to be the most efficient.

BW built the whole tree on 1 skill with no CD. And there is even stacks built around it.

 

So, BW made a class about spaming 1 skill, then wants us to stop spaming. Fine by me. But nerfing this skill is not the solution, they just nerfed the whole tree. Instead, revamping the tree would have been a better idea.

[Star-ranger]

Maybe you should learn to play a commando before talking.

Let me give you a free lesson :

there is 10 feats related in one way or another to grav round in the gunnery tree. Increasing DPS, survability, and used to help with energy management. Some of them need 5 stacks of buffs from 5 grav round to be the most efficient.

BW built the whole tree on 1 skill with no CD. And there is even stacks built around it.

 

So, BW made a class about spaming 1 skill, then wants us to stop spaming. Fine by me. But nerfing this skill is not the solution, they just nerfed the whole tree. Instead, revamping the tree would have been a better idea.

 

Again, I can live with doing a little less damage. What my trooper can't live with is paper armor & defenses ... getting shot to death in the first 10 -20 seconds of a fight and running out of ammo because now 5 uses of grav round costs an entire magazine and reload doesn't come up that often.

 

Dying quickly and often makes the commando frustrating to play. Face it, this class is just not fun to play any more.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Star-ranger

[Achromatis]

Ive tried both Gunnery and Medic since the patch on my level 34 Commando, and didnt notice any significant changes. I can still solo H2s and have high damage output as a healer, I still AoE packs down with 1-2 skills, I wasnt running out of juice when I was Gunnery.

 

I do however have Legacy Level of 20, and have all the companion buffs so I have about 300 Presence so that is making a difference. If they nerfed players who dont have these buffs to the point where its not fun to play, then that is definitely something Bioware needs to address.

 

Was there anything specific youre having problems with though? You could tell me how you would handle a pull that has... 2 gold elites and 2 silver elites, and I could maybe give you some pointers.

[Star-ranger]

Ive tried both Gunnery and Medic since the patch on my level 34 Commando, and didnt notice any significant changes. I can still solo H2s and have high damage output as a healer, I still AoE packs down with 1-2 skills, I wasnt running out of juice when I was Gunnery.

 

I do however have Legacy Level of 20, and have all the companion buffs so I have about 300 Presence so that is making a difference. If they nerfed players who dont have these buffs to the point where its not fun to play, then that is definitely something Bioware needs to address.

 

Was there anything specific youre having problems with though? You could tell me how you would handle a pull that has... 2 gold elites and 2 silver elites, and I could maybe give you some pointers.

 

My wife and I generally play together. Either a lvl 35 Commando and 35 sage; or lvl 22 Gun Slinger and 21 Commando. None of them is healing spec'd. Gear is nothing special, just what's dropped. Weapons are blue or orange with blue mods appropriate for our level.

 

In general the tactics we've been using for big groups of silvers and golds is to hold 1 or 2 and then concentrate on taking out the others one at a time as fast as possible before the holds drop the other. We send in any melee companions on one of the remaining two and take out the 4th with ranged fire. Then move to the one that's been engaged by the companion(s), then take out the held ones one at a time. We used to survive quite nicely if an accidental AOE went off and broke the holds, now we're toast.

 

For big bosses we've never done well. It's always been skin of our teeth so to speak. (Like the Sand People Chief Boss in the cave on Tatooine). Mostly for those we try to send in our melee companion(s) and try to keep them healed while whittling down the Bosses health.

 

That's not a lot of detail but is our general approach.

[Zayse]

Frankly I think it's a dark side conspiracy. BW developers have always favored the Empire over the Republic. Hardly a surprise when they find a class that just might challenge their insidious evil they sabotage it.

 

Ummm.... you realize that if you get nerfed so do Bounty Hunter right? They're Mirror classes...

 

Now I'm ****ed against anyone 1v1.

 

This is where I unfortunately had to stop listening to you. No class is doing well 1v1, BioWare is encouraging team play

[CommanderFlyn]

The funny thing is...

The Commando is meant to be a RDPS(slash healer...but healing is boring sometimes apart from shooting them with the gun...that's fun)...balance wise, it's defense when it comes to melee range is not meant to be all that great in the first place.

 

Don't you have tank companions to use when your running together? If one were to use a tank and the other a healer, and then micro-manage the healing companion so that the tank stays up and you have a proper party composition of healing, tanking and DPS.

 

Just sayin' RDPS have always sucked up close and personal, SWTOR is no different anymore XD

[Star-ranger]

The funny thing is...

The Commando is meant to be a RDPS(slash healer...but healing is boring sometimes apart from shooting them with the gun...that's fun)...balance wise, it's defense when it comes to melee range is not meant to be all that great in the first place.

 

Don't you have tank companions to use when your running together? If one were to use a tank and the other a healer, and then micro-manage the healing companion so that the tank stays up and you have a proper party composition of healing, tanking and DPS.

 

Just sayin' RDPS have always sucked up close and personal, SWTOR is no different anymore XD

 

Not the issue. The issue is our Commandos die much much faster now.

 

I suppose the real issue is how many MOBs should we be able to take on in PvE? Should we feel heroic or feel wimpy? Right now our armor feels like it's paper. We take excessive damage that we weren't taking before. We're dying quickly to groups of MOBs 5 levels below us. How is that fun?

[CommanderFlyn]

Not the issue. The issue is our Commandos die much much faster now.

 

I suppose the real issue is how many MOBs should we be able to take on in PvE? Should we feel heroic or feel wimpy? Right now our armor feels like it's paper. We take excessive damage that we weren't taking before. We're dying quickly to groups of MOBs 5 levels below us. How is that fun?

 

but that IS the issue which I have addressed.

It's been a fundamental thing of balancing that if someone were to go RDPS, they have to stay at a distance or risk getting chewed up and spat out...horribly.

I'm not saying it's fun. I'm saying you know have to think about your own placement and squad composition. RDPS have horrible defense against melee: FACT.

 

With 1.2 it's simply MORE apparent than before. My Commando has always been squishy even before 1.2

[Serikahn]

Commandos were never meant to be tanks if you are trying to tank on them you will get hammered try pulling out M1-4X if you have him and yes I understand some of the griping about the loss of armor even my Vanguard who is a SS spec gets hurt more than he used to but that has been mitigated with skill points and I do not have much trouble now and it could just be that you are trying to be the big scary stick when you should just be the big stick that kills and let a companion handle the pounding just my few cents i have no experience as a commando so please do not flame me for know knowing my stuff but I felt a need to see if it wasn't a L2P your class so much as a perhaps change how you try to do things

[Ratahpla]

Again, I can live with doing a little less damage. What my trooper can't live with is paper armor & defenses ... getting shot to death in the first 10 -20 seconds of a fight and running out of ammo because now 5 uses of grav round costs an entire magazine and reload doesn't come up that often.

 

Dying quickly and often makes the commando frustrating to play. Face it, this class is just not fun to play any more.

 

It isn't just Commando. I have a Vanguard doing the Defensive tree and after the patch it's like I have no armor at all. Even trivial encounters can reduce me to 1/2 to 3/4 health.

 

There is no way this class was play tested at lower levels with this nerf. My Sage tanks a hell of a lot better than my Trooper now.

[Pwnyride]

getting shot to death in the first 10 -20 seconds of a fight and running out of ammo because now 5 uses of grav round costs an entire magazine and reload doesn't come up that often.

 

[/color]

 

Thing is the class is only this way till lvl 25, only for 5 lvls do have to use 5 gravs, once your 25 you should be specing so that it only takes 3 gravs for the armor pen. Also with the way that ammo has reduced return rate, you shouldnt be hitting grav grav grav grav. It should be something like grav grav grav hammershot hammershot grav grav. if you are unloading your entire clip less than when you have full regen your doing it incorrectly unless the fight will be over soon. You should never try to drop below 8 ammo remaining unless you really need the burst and u will be out of combat soon.

 

the debuff doesnt fall off for about 10 seconds, you dont have to instantly get ur 5 gravs off. And like i said this is only played this way for 5 lvls. Once your lvl 25 grav youll only need 3 to get full debuffs and should be using full autp as well.

 

But I do agree that the trooper surviabilty has shot way down. I play a lvl 50 vangaurd SS hybrid and fights that before barley scratched me and bringing me to near death. I almost couldnt finish lvling as assault after 1.2 because of the lack of mitigation.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Pwnyride

[Achromatis]

That's not a lot of detail but is our general approach.

 

Hm that sounds about right, what companions? If neither of you is a healer then you should be using at least one healer companion, and their gear really matters about as much as your gear does. Possibly even both using healer companions. Thankfully Commando companions mostly use the same stuff you do.

 

For hard hitting melee bosses like that(clear the surrounding area first), you should try kiting them and using ranged companions if possible. Or just healer companions, which by the mid 30s should even have their own CC. Basically you just want to reduce how often you take damage, and when you are taking damage reduce it with a Sage bubble or cooldown.

 

A Commando isnt a spectacular kiter, but you have a knockback and a stun to get distance and a Sage has a snare/knockback/stun as well to assist you. You may also want to consider having one of you spec for healing if you plan to duo H4 missions. Its really not that bad, you still do a lot of damage as a healer.

 

Level 30 has always been a sort of difficulty wall(Alderann), so you might be experiencing a bit of that in addition to the nerfs. It could also just be that you ran into some missions that were designed to be harder.

[Star-ranger]

Hm that sounds about right, what companions? If neither of you is a healer then you should be using at least one healer companion, and their gear really matters about as much as your gear does. Possibly even both using healer companions. Thankfully Commando companions mostly use the same stuff you do.

 

For hard hitting melee bosses like that(clear the surrounding area first), you should try kiting them and using ranged companions if possible. Or just healer companions, which by the mid 30s should even have their own CC. Basically you just want to reduce how often you take damage, and when you are taking damage reduce it with a Sage bubble or cooldown.

 

A Commando isnt a spectacular kiter, but you have a knockback and a stun to get distance and a Sage has a snare/knockback/stun as well to assist you. You may also want to consider having one of you spec for healing if you plan to duo H4 missions. Its really not that bad, you still do a lot of damage as a healer.

 

Level 30 has always been a sort of difficulty wall(Alderann), so you might be experiencing a bit of that in addition to the nerfs. It could also just be that you ran into some missions that were designed to be harder.

 

Yes the above advice was OK before 1.2. I don't think it applies now. Healing is so bad you just can't keep up, so healing is not really IMO the best option. Killing fast is pretty much it.... but the lower levels have been nerfed.

 

Honestly they're trying to balance for PvP and IMO you can't balance PvP. Trying to balance for PvP is like trying to hit a constantly moving target that randomly moves about in all directions. PvP'rs will complain about everything even if they're the most powerful class in a game. It never stops. If it's in the game somebody will complain about it being over powered even if it's underpowered. PvP'rs are NEVER happy. (I'm not talking about individuals I'm talking about the general community of PvP).

 

So smart developers balance the game for PvE and give every class something that's fun and unique, and leave the PvP'rs to figure out how to win at PvP with what's been given them.

 

Unfortunately BW has screwed over the PvE community to chase the never ending bouncing ball of PvP balance...which as other games have found chases off PvE players.

[Dakc]

I 100% disagree with people on here saying that the nerf was meant to effect only players who spam grav round. I do not spam grav round and my class is virtually unplayable in pvp now. I dont have nearly as much dps and survivability I once had. Once somebody gets in close I am dead periond. Also I am always running out of ammo before I can even bring a single target's hp half way down. There is a huge difference in game play since the patch. If the nerf stick I will not be around for another month.

 

/agree completely

[Victlin]

As a healing trooper, i might be able to say that the nerf on us was hard =/

Maybe my opinion is biased since i'm not a high lvl player (32 right now)

I went to cademimu for example, around 4 times before 1.2 since lvl 26 and i was able to heal it, sometimes with problems and some really smooth.

I went today as a 32 player with other trooper a shadow tank and a sentinel tank, all of them 30+ well geared for our lvl.

I wouldn't have made it w/o the other commando and tbh, we had a hard time there...

Ammo regen slowed + supercharge cells giving us just 1 of ammo more and less pros for us + trauma probe costing alot + kolto bomb increasing healing 2% less and less shield (from 10% to 5%) = a hell for us..

As i heard, commandos aren't able to heal well the newer ops since it's a hell due low ammo regen (which was our pro as healers tbh)

on a side now..AP/MP combo now cost 4 instead of 3..so it's even harder for us to be viable as healers, we just run out of ammo too fast =/

Edited April 16, 2012 by Victlin