I've lost the will to PvP - cancelling my sub until this is fixed

[Sweeet]

Yup, noticed same thing on my powertech. I am simply less useful as tank spec then simply going pyrotech and blowing everyone up. It's quite literally, kill or be killed. Healers aren't really a problem, I just burn them down - except they don't hit back so they are actually easier to deal with then dps. Tanks are just the same as dps, except they dps for less. Their mitigation is virtually irrelevant since my damage bypasses virtually all of it anyway.

 

And is that what you'd call competitive PvP? No tactical healing/guarding any more - just trying to kill quicker than the other team? I would genuinely like to know.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sweeet

[Sathid]

If 3 DPS are on you in any game what do you expect to happen? You should last 5 more seconds?

 

He expects his bubble and fast cast heals to ensure that he takes out two and the other runs off.

[Sweeet]

He expects his bubble and fast cast heals to ensure that he takes out two and the other runs off.

 

How about not die in a 4 second stun with full BM gear, over and over and over and over and over... I think you get the picture.

[KrackenOne]

games never felt better imo, fps have improved hugely and im enjoying pvp alot more with my sage since I have to react now instead of standing still nuking people with raidboss dps rotations

 

There are many good things about 1.2. Too bad credits have been gated to PvE gameplay though.

[UncleJimbo]

No you should last long enough to "react", or at least give the healer a chance to try and save you. It was never this bad before 1.2, even with 3 DPS on me I could react after the 4 second stun and save myself. Now I'm dead before the 4 second stun is even over - hence the term being gibbed.

 

I hardly think it was Biowares intention to have PvP turn into a gib-fest, do you? Do you think it's right people should be dropping like fly's in a 4 second stun?

 

You are preaching to WoW fanboys that think a pvp match should last a few seconds

Before the increased the dps gain from expertise every class had a chance to react; also no class could survive being focused by 3 dps unless they could stealth or charge away at an enemy to increase the gap between him/her and the 3 dps.

This reduction of time-to-live in pvp is the worst move made to this game; I can even look over the blunt nerf of warzone commendations gain, but this TTL crap is too much, it what used to make swtor fun and appealing (at least for me).

If I want 4 sec skirmish I can play an FPS or a MOBA, this is not for MMORPG.

[Tadus]

Nobody has even mentioned in this thread that there is exactly 0 world pvp and a simple concept like ranked warzones is still far in the future (yet they want to charge us ranked WZ comms for gear? go figure.) O, and the class bonuses are the same and still useless? LOL@Operative bonus.

 

Everyone go on youtube and watch the the guild summit meeting on pvp. You'll see why this game's pvp is going down the toilet. A bunch of RP pve carebears and non-50 pvpers giving advice and asking questions to the Devs. There are maybe 1-3 great pvpers from launch left on my server, and I rarely see them even now.

[Sweeet]

You are preaching to WoW fanboys that think a pvp match should last a few seconds

Before the increased the dps gain from expertise every class had a chance to react; also no class could survive being focused by 3 dps unless they could stealth or charge away at an enemy to increase the gap between him/her and the 3 dps.

This reduction of time-to-live in pvp is the worst move made to this game; I can even look over the blunt nerf of warzone commendations gain, but this TTL crap is too much, it what used to make swtor fun and appealing (at least for me).

If I want 4 sec skirmish I can play an FPS or a MOBA, this is not for MMORPG.

 

I am aren't I, they're acting like nothing has changed. They just seem to enjoy throwing out blind insults rather than have an actual discussion any way, so I'm not taking them too seriously

 

Exactly, what's the point in giving us a plethora of ability's to use being that this is an MMO, if we are unable to actually use them? I'm not saying that 3 DPS shouldn't be able to take down someone, just not in the space of 4 seconds. Give people a chance to pop a defensive cooldown, wait for back up, not to feel like they're utterly useless.

 

You can't have competitive 8vs8 PvP which just involves people getting 1-shot if attacked by more than 3 people. What exactly is competitive about that? Teams of players in TS just shouting "FOCUS HIM - FOCUS HER - FOCUS HIM" hoping that the other team doesn't focus you before you can kill them? Really, what is competitive about that?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sweeet

[UncleJimbo]

Nobody has even mentioned in this thread that there is exactly 0 world pvp and a simple concept like ranked warzones is still far in the future (yet they want to charge us ranked WZ comms for gear? go figure.) O, and the class bonuses are the same and still useless? LOL@Operative bonus.

 

Everyone go on youtube and watch the the guild summit meeting on pvp. You'll see why this game's pvp is going down the toilet. A bunch of RP pve carebears and non-50 pvpers giving advice and asking questions to the Devs. There are maybe 1-3 great pvpers from launch left on my server, and I rarely see them even now.

 

Well no one mentioned world pvp because there is none, actually there was none; it was just the faction that had the most players steamroll the other faction. (that's the 2 faction system @ work)

 

Ranked wz was, in my opinion, a dirty marketing trick to make people continue the subscription or to attract the player that left.

 

Of course they will answer only the questions they like, it makes sense to answer questions you feel comfortable with and can BS about it until players will forget what was even asked

[Sathid]

You are preaching to WoW fanboys that think a pvp match should last a few seconds

Before the increased the dps gain from expertise every class had a chance to react; also no class could survive being focused by 3 dps unless they could stealth or charge away at an enemy to increase the gap between him/her and the 3 dps.

This reduction of time-to-live in pvp is the worst move made to this game; I can even look over the blunt nerf of warzone commendations gain, but this TTL crap is too much, it what used to make swtor fun and appealing (at least for me).

If I want 4 sec skirmish I can play an FPS or a MOBA, this is not for MMORPG.

 

I never played WoW Jimbo,and trust me if anything you should be more concerned about fights lasting too long in 1.2

[setablaze]

agree 110% but hey whiners will be whiners news flash ppl adapt and evolve or get left behind...

 

Sooooo, by your way of thinking any change is good and correct. As a player, any issue we raise is just whining?

 

Okay, well congratulations, you've just figured it all out all by yourself. Bioware, please close down the forums ok? Everything you do is right and we all just have to adapt cause he says so.

[REDinSOXicated]

I never played WoW Jimbo,and trust me if anything you should be more concerned about fights lasting too long in 1.2

 

 

You have nothing else better to do, do you? Nothing you have posted has been constructive nor considered a rational thought.

[Sathid]

You have nothing else better to do, do you? Nothing you have posted has been constructive nor considered a rational thought.

 

Compared to?

[Enexemander]

I'm with you OP. These are not intelligent changes.

 

MMO 101: Do Not Give An Incentive To Screwing Over Your Team.

-- This is exactly what the low rewards for losing does. There is no reason not to just drop and requeue for a better team. If they implement a deserter debuff, people will just afk in losing warzones. The answer is to fix the reward system, not try to beat people into compliance with a crap one.

 

My own personal rant is about BM Assassin Gear. Why is the stalker set stacked to the gills with accuracy? WE DO NOT NEED ACCURACY. There is no surge on the set pieces AT ALL.

 

I'd love to use the tank set but... TANK STATS DON'T WORK WORTH CRAP IN PVP.

 

So many bad design decisions. It's like every new PvP patch note should come with the tagline: "From the people who brought you Ilum..."

[Dezalg]

I have no problem adjusting to some changes but if I happen to pug a wz and end up losing with only a few medals and get absolutely nothing for my 15mins seems a bit extreme. The only reason I might end up getting 2 medals because Im focusing on helping distract people for objectives in order to win the wz. With the setup now if I want to make sure to get anything you almost have to think of basically yourself and not the team to make it not be a waste of time. I am fine with it being reduced but not totally taken away.

[UncleJimbo]

I never played WoW Jimbo,and trust me if anything you should be more concerned about fights lasting too long in 1.2

 

Why should I be concerned? I do not mean a 1v1 fight to last 5 minutes, but not 8 sec either.

You have to admit that the DPS increase from expertise is not good when the defense gain remained the same.

Also being a tank and meaning nothing means that something went haywire with this patch. I am a vanguard and switched to 0/23/18 spec and saw pwertech tanks melt under my fire power, I do not like it; before 1.2 I tested he same build and they stood a chance, now the same targets are melting like butter, something is not right.

 

I am not crying foul for the class changes, they were justified for some, even for vanguard assault spec (even if they overdid it with the 6 sec internal cooldown on HiB), but the expertise change affected all and I am afraid that this was not tested properly or if it was then it means it was intentional.

Should this be the case, they should have notified the players that the design team wishes to go on this direction so those against it could know in advance and go quest for the MMO they feel they should play. If I remember correctly, in some of their videos before release they said they wish PvP fights to last a bit longer, that is what made me buy this game mostly than the lore; now they take that away without any detailed explanation.

[Sathid]

Why should I be concerned? I do not mean a 1v1 fight to last 5 minutes, but not 8 sec either.

You have to admit that the DPS increase from expertise is not good when the defense gain remained the same.

Also being a tank and meaning nothing means that something went haywire with this patch. I am a vanguard and switched to 0/23/18 spec and saw pwertech tanks melt under my fire power, I do not like it; before 1.2 I tested he same build and they stood a chance, now the same targets are melting like butter, something is not right.

 

I am not crying foul for the class changes, they were justified for some, even for vanguard assault spec (even if they overdid it with the 6 sec internal cooldown on HiB), but the expertise change affected all and I am afraid that this was not tested properly or if it was then it means it was intentional.

Should this be the case, they should have notified the players that the design team wishes to go on this direction so those against it could know in advance and go quest for the MMO they feel they should play. If I remember correctly, in some of their videos before release they said they wish PvP fights to last a bit longer, that is what made me buy this game mostly than the lore; now they take that away without any detailed explanation.

 

You make some valid points,but i think this update,patch whatever we wish to call it hasnt been played out yet,lets give it some time before people just start overreacting,if in two weeks what you posted is still the same yah i agree let's hope they make some changes,but lets give it some time.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sathid

[Sweeet]

I'm with you OP. These are not intelligent changes.

 

MMO 101: Do Not Give An Incentive To Screwing Over Your Team.

-- This is exactly what the low rewards for losing does. There is no reason not to just drop and requeue for a better team. If they implement a deserter debuff, people will just afk in losing warzones. The answer is to fix the reward system, not try to beat people into compliance with a crap one.

 

My own personal rant is about BM Assassin Gear. Why is the stalker set stacked to the gills with accuracy? WE DO NOT NEED ACCURACY. There is no surge on the set pieces AT ALL.

 

I'd love to use the tank set but... TANK STATS DON'T WORK WORTH CRAP IN PVP.

 

So many bad design decisions. It's like every new PvP patch note should come with the tagline: "From the people who brought you Ilum..."

 

That last line made me chuckle, thanks

 

I know it's mind-boggling isn't it. Sometimes you will go up against the same pre-made over and over, with not a chance of winning, and if you use more than 2 PvP Med-packs, you won't make a single WZ commendation... I know this is a cliché, but someone should seriously lose their job over such an idiotic change, they clearly don't have the right skillset for the job.

 

It genuinely makes me sad to have to say this, but I actually think Bioware have completely lost their direction as far as PvP is concerned, big time.

[deyhawke]

PVP is not fun now.

[Armigite]

Healers ain't even needed lol, 2 full groups with DPS will eat everything, doesn't matter if the other faction has 1-3 healers, they will still eat it and die quick.

 

Rather have 8 DPS than 6 DPS and 2 healers, anyday of the week.

That's why i'm making a DPS instead of healing, i swear to GOD 2 groups with DPS... Lol, it's insain, and switch 1-2 dps with 1-2 tanks and you are golden.

 

It's not the silly nerf's i'm talking about, i still heal very good with my sage. But something has changed with 1.2 that i'm no longer needed in wz's at all, infact some people don't like healers joining, they would rather have the extra DPS, and that's why i'm making one

 

So yes, i am adapting.

 

Absolutely. There are people I play with that don't believe it. But as a Sage healer, I know it to be true. All you need is 6 to 8 pure dps and you will ruin the other team's day. Even better, you can prevent them from getting any reward for the warzone. You can punish them so bad, they get nothing.

 

Since 1.2, I've been on the wrong end of that stick.

[UncleJimbo]

You make some valid points,but i think this update,patch whatever we wish to call it hasnt been played out yet,lets give it some time before people just start overreacting,if in two weeks what you posted is still the same yah i agree let's hope they make some changes,but lets give it some time.

 

I would give it time if they would be open minded to reverting the expertise gains to what it was before 1.2 or at least make the dps gain equal to damage reduction gain; just the expertise, not the endurance (which was lowered) or any other stat.

[Sookster]

I've had a couple good Voidstar matches that came down to a tie, even if you make it near to the end and rack up 14+ medals, a loss gives you very little, I got like 23 comms and 0 credit and like 1100 valor. Not to mention going with a 10 straight loss streak, couldn't afford pvp stims so I used the level 44 exceptional medpacks.

 

*PUNCH SCREEN*

Edited April 14, 2012 by Sookster

[REDinSOXicated]

That last line made me chuckle, thanks

 

I know it's mind-boggling isn't it. Sometimes you will go up against the same pre-made over and over, with not a chance of winning, and if you use more than 2 PvP Med-packs, you won't make a single WZ commendation... I know this is a cliché, but someone should seriously lose their job over such an idiotic change, they clearly don't have the right skillset for the job.

 

It genuinely makes me sad to have to say this, but I actually think Bioware have completely lost their direction as far as PvP is concerned, big time.

 

yeah, I'm not sure what they were thinking or even trying to do. I couldn't careless about the legacy features, the free month, and the stupid pet and it seems like that's all they focused on and just changed the skill trees around without really thinking about how it would affect the game.

[Sweeet]

You make some valid points,but i think this update,patch whatever we wish to call it hasnt been played out yet,lets give it some time before people just start overreacting,if in two weeks what you posted is still the same yah i agree let's hope they make some changes,but lets give it some time.

 

Finally, you say something rational! I honestly don't think time will fix the issue though, as the mechanic causing everyone to "overreact" as you put it, will not change in 2 weeks time. The issue will actually only get worse given the disparity between the damage done and damage reduction with Expertise now in 1.2.

 

So basically the more Expertise people get, the quicker they will be able to kill. You think it's bad now? You wait until two weeks time when people are getting 1-shot by only 2 DPS...(yes, now I may be overreacting but you get the point)

[Enexemander]

That last line made me chuckle, thanks

 

I know it's mind-boggling isn't it. Sometimes you will go up against the same pre-made over and over, with not a chance of winning, and if you use more than 2 PvP Med-packs, you won't make a single WZ commendation... I know this is a cliché, but someone should seriously lose their job over such an idiotic change, they clearly don't have the right skillset for the job.

 

It genuinely makes me sad to have to say this, but I actually think Bioware have completely lost their direction as far as PvP is concerned, big time.

 

Exactly! That's another excellent example. We KNOW they were trying to make other professions as good as Biochem for endgame raiding / PvP. They have flat out stated as much. With this change, you must go Biochem to be competitive. There is no other way.

 

That, frankly, is stupid. I say that as someone with 2 50s that have Biochem as a profession. If anything, they should have made the warzone medpacs and adrenals CHEAPER.

 

All this load of fail cannot possibly have gone through the PTR without comment. Or maybe it did if they cherry picked their testers to such an absurd extent.

 

It is mind boggling how such incompetence can be behind the scenes of a 200 million dollar venture. This game will not last without a new change in direction and some competent leadership at Bioware. Flat out. Throw the "metrics" away, because Bioware- YOU ARE NOT THE LEVEL WHERE EVALUATING METRICS WILL HELP YOU. That's about 3 steps above the common sense line where you're failing.

 

/rant

[Vetril]

That's not the issue, the issue is that PvP seems to be taking a step backwards. Healers have never been more important in PvP now that the time-to-kill has drastically been reduced, yet noone wants to play them because they've been nerfed to hell. I'm not saying the nerfs weren't justified, but I've most definitely seen a drop in healers playing WZ's since 1.2

 

But either way PvP has turned into a gib-fest with little to no reward. Yes I get into the odd few WZ's that even if we lose, it was a good close game. But when 90% are either us gibbing the other team because they didn't have a healer, or getting gibbed ourselves because we didn't have a healer, it's just not fun any more. There is no more tactical game-play, it's just who can gib the other team the quickest.

 

PvP has become boring, and the issue is further exuberated by either the poor, or no reward you get now.

 

It always amazes me when company's make game-breaking changes like these, does no-one seriously think these things through? And it's not a simple case of "you can't please everyone", it's pure lack of foresight on Bioware's part. No-one enjoys getting killed without having time to react, no-one.

 

Blame the players, not the game. I do notice when a healer buys time for my target when I'm trying to finish him off.

It's just people going for the easy route. No different from when everyone rolled a sorc, or when everyone went assassin.