Marauder Abilities Not being Instant Cast causing other trees to be useless.

[PunisherAS]

Just went through 3 trees today with Parser to see which tree was better DPS and I noticed a few things that prevent certain trees to do more damage than others.

 

For example,

Force Crush, supposed to be an instant cast.

You end up being stuck in a 1.5-2 second animation, slowing down your Burst DPS.

 

Force Scream, supposed to be an instant cast.

Its not as bad a Force Crush but it still kills about 1 second as you have to wait for the animation to finish.

 

The problem:

Rage tree lacks the DPS to keep up due to every time you use Force Crush it lacks the "Instant" cast that causes your DPS to slow over time. The two main abilities that require you to keep your smash crits up are Force Choke and Force Crush. Force Crush has the animation you get stuck in, and Force Choke doesn't do enough damage over time to be reliable in a Raid/PVP situation.

 

Force Scream which is used consecutively in Carnage also prevents the user to constantly provide DPS due to the animation that causes the user to get stuck in.

 

Heres some statistics over the 2 trees vs Annh.

We had two marauders level 50 battle a training droid naked with the two same main hand and offhands.

 

Carnage vs Annh.

46% vs 54%

 

Rage vs Annh.

48% vs 52%

 

Now carnage lacks enough DPS or crits to be reasonable in any PVE/PVP situation.

Rage comes close, but constantly gets the lack of burst due to the Force Crush animation which is supposed to be instant.

 

Hope Biowares sees this and makes it aware to their attention.

There are a lot of abilities that say "Instant Cast" but really aren't instant.

Seconds are crucial to being a Marauder.

 

If a video is needed I'll provide a video.

[PunisherAS]

Bump or moved to appropriate forum.

[Spiderbubble]

The animations rarely ever (if ever) last longer than 1 GCD, so none of that matters anyway.

[PunisherAS]

The animations rarely ever (if ever) last longer than 1 GCD, so none of that matters anyway.

 

Force Crush last longer than that.

Try it yourself before you post.

[Cindikle]

Your next attack still executes on time. The animation does not catch up is all. Same way using a normal attack and something off the GCD work. Sometimes the second ability doesn't even show it went off, but that healer isn't healing anymore.

[babiegirlla]

Force Scream needs to act EXACTLY like our execute does, it`s incredibly stupid that it doesn`t. You know when you hit to execute, and your spell INSTANTLY releases and goes at them? why doesn`t force scream do that? I don`t need my hands to come to my mouth and animate it out, it already has a project delay from me to the target.

 

I have literally hit force scream, had it not go off, and then have the GCD act as if it went off.

Edited April 14, 2012 by babiegirlla

[PunisherAS]

Force Scream needs to act EXACTLY like our execute does, it`s incredibly stupid that it doesn`t. You know when you hit to execute, and your spell INSTANTLY releases and goes at them? why doesn`t force scream do that? I don`t need my hands to come to my mouth and animate it out, it already has a project delay from me to the target.

 

I have literally hit force scream, had it not go off, and then have the GCD act as if it went off.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices this.

 

Your next attack still executes on time. The animation does not catch up is all. Same way using a normal attack and something off the GCD work. Sometimes the second ability doesn't even show it went off, but that healer isn't healing anymore.

Still, have you used force crush yet? When you hit force crush try tapping battering assault numerous times until it hits.

 

And same with Force Scream, the animation should not be there because it prevents seconds off of DPS due to this "Animation" you get stuck in causing you to push over to Annh. do to loss of DPS over time.

 

Lets say your in a raid and Force Scream delays 1 second per time you use it.

Lets say your in the Carnage tree that insists you use it constantly for that crit.

Alright, your in a raid DPSing a single target boss, use it once 1 second.. use it twice.. 2 seconds... use it again... 3 seconds.. you constantly lose that 1 second over having Annh. which actually instant casts on the enemy. This is why Annh. is a MUST have. Its DPS tops over Carnage and Rage due to DOT's that don't stick you in an animation. All the trees could be more balanced irregardless if this animation was fixed. I can use Force Crush sometimes and it will stop me In place... stop my character from moving then carry on to what he was doing. In this delay animation I lose precious DPS.

Edited April 14, 2012 by PunisherAS

[aka_ys]

Just went through 3 trees today with Parser to see which tree was better DPS and I noticed a few things that prevent certain trees to do more damage than others.

 

For example,

Force Crush, supposed to be an instant cast.

You end up being stuck in a 1.5-2 second animation, slowing down your Burst DPS.

 

Force Scream, supposed to be an instant cast.

Its not as bad a Force Crush but it still kills about 1 second as you have to wait for the animation to finish.

 

The problem:

Rage tree lacks the DPS to keep up due to every time you use Force Crush it lacks the "Instant" cast that causes your DPS to slow over time.........

 

completely agree!!!

[Mattebubben]

I Fully Agree both as a Marauder and as a Jedi Guardian.

These are problems that both restricts and weakens our class and specc choices considerably

and that should be fixed as soon as possible.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Mattebubben

[PunisherAS]

Annihilation is the only tree that doesn't stop mobility when using abilities.

For example, you can still run and use Ravage while moving without standing in an animation. Annihilation provides no room for downtime, you can continuously hit your rotation as soon as it pops up providing the best DPS.

Edited April 14, 2012 by PunisherAS

[Zietlogik]

Do you have your "Ability Action Queue Window" set to 0.0? in the controls options? it may not necessarily help with immediate skills, but it will help not having a skill pop after the animation because it was "queued" with a button press

[DarthVillain]

Ti dont have a problem with ability delay fpr force cruwh but i always haveba problem with undyingbrage

[CoolJaZ]

Guys, there's a 1.5sec GCD. So even if it took 1 second to cast... Well yeah. Please return to your brains to your heads.

[PunisherAS]

Guys, there's a 1.5sec GCD. So even if it took 1 second to cast... Well yeah. Please return to your brains to your heads.

 

Irregardless, even if its a GCD, theses animations should not be a still animation. We should be able to use these abilities while moving.

 

GCD still kills the other two trees top damage abilities for DPS.

[tjstix]

For example, you can still run and use Ravage while moving without standing in an animation.

 

Um....what?

[Kushtaka]

Guys, the problem is this: if you're face rolling, which most if not all of you are, you cannot see the GCD doing its thang. Lift your faces up off the keyboard and you'll see that everything is working as intended. E-z mode Marauders still whining even after they have been made the most OP class in the game.

[PunisherAS]

Um....what?

 

I meant to say Rupture.

 

Guys, the problem is this: if you're face rolling, which most if not all of you are, you cannot see the GCD doing its thang. Lift your faces up off the keyboard and you'll see that everything is working as intended. E-z mode Marauders still whining even after they have been made the most OP class in the game.

 

Alright, do this test for yourself.

 

Do Annihilation and use Rupture, are you able to use this move and still continue to move after using?

 

Do Carnage, use force scream, are you able to use this move and still continue to move after using?

 

Do Rage, use Force Crush, are you able to use this move and still continue to move after using?

 

Answers,

Yes

No

No

 

Even if GCD effects it, it only affects the other two trees, not Annihilation

Edited April 16, 2012 by PunisherAS

[Spiderbubble]

IIRC I've always been able to use Force Crush while moving... Maybe 1.2 changed it, and maybe I'm remembering this wrong as I haven't used the Rage tree in a while, but I remember being able to use it on the run.

 

In fact, same with Scream...

[Draexnael]

Well I've not played my maurader for awhile, came back to see 1.2 and its really depressing to see the same problems still plague the class.

 

Smash - if you get knocked back or the opponent is moving even slightly it wont hit anything.

Ravage - constantly getting stuck in the animation and rooted to the spot (seeing it being interupted whilst Carnage spec is also really great)

Force Choke - just seeing someone run off when they have minimal resolve and you stand there with your hand in the air saying "yo can't do **** come kill me"

 

Guess I'll wait till the next patch to see if they actually fix our core abilities, I'd guess they'll never be fixed as it appears to be outside the limitations of the engine.

[Vid-szhite]

Annihilation is the only tree that doesn't stop mobility when using abilities.

For example, you can still run and use Ravage while moving without standing in an animation. Annihilation provides no room for downtime, you can continuously hit your rotation as soon as it pops up providing the best DPS.

 

...Ravage always requires you to stand still, even in annihilation.

[Vid-szhite]

Irregardless, even if its a GCD, theses animations should not be a still animation. We should be able to use these abilities while moving.

 

We...can. Try it sometime. Do note that if you are holding down too many buttons on your keyboard, the darn thing gets overwhelmed and might not register the attack keypress (keyboards suck like that), but fortunately, holding down mouse1+mouse2 allows you to move forward at least.

 

I can tell you for factual certainty that I can use Force Scream and Force Crush while moving, but because of my keyboard's limitations, I cannot use them while circle strafing (they are bound to alt+keys).

 

GCD still kills the other two trees top damage abilities for DPS.

 

Everything must respect the GCD, even Annihilation. The only attack Marauders have that doesn't respect the GCD is Retaliate. The only tree that can lower its own GCDs is Carnage, and to my knowledge, Carnage is the only spec in the entire game that can lower the GCD.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[PunisherAS]

...Ravage always requires you to stand still, even in annihilation.

 

You can't read posts. Look up.

[Sylriana]

Do Carnage, use force scream, are you able to use this move and still continue to move after using?

 

Yes actually.

[Pwnyride]

Ive been using force scream while moving all day.

[Meathammerz]

Ive been using force scream while moving all day.

 

Yes actually.

 

this. 10 char