Just like Rift, i have to make the same post on the PvP Expertise Stat and it's flaw.

[Xsorus]

I've done this before, In rift, and Trion was smart enough to see my post and fix the problem.

 

So hopefully Bioware will heed my advice just the same.

 

Expertise is a stat that is broken in this game, It's broken because it's doing to much when combating a simple problem.

 

Expertise/Valor and whatever PvP stat is available in any other game was added for a reason, and that reason was to separate PVE gear from PvP gear. See Back in WoW, Blizzard noticed that no matter how good the PvPer was, if some Raider came along with epic gear that usually outclassed PvPers gear by a crap ton, He would crush the PvPer based entirely on the Stat Difference.

 

Blizzard Solution was to add a PvP stat Resilience to the game to give those who pvped an advantage over those who raided.

 

Now Think about that Solution for a second, This stat is entirely there to separate PVE and PvP gear. That's all it is meant for.

 

However a problem with current MMO's is they try and Tier the stat itself on PvP gear, For example in Rift, You had Lower rank gear with 20% reduction in damage, while higher rank gear had 30-40% damage reduction, This made ZERO sense in Gameplay design as the difference between the Lower Rank gear and the higher rank gear was already a huge Base Stat issue (aka higher rank gear had upwards to 3k more HP then lower rank gear, and close to 500 attackpower/spell power difference)

 

SWTOR has screwed up and went this same route, Before the patch it wasn't as noticeable, and the difference between Champion and BM was miniscule at best, and Cent was not to bad as to make a huge difference.

 

After this patch though, the difference between BM gear and Recruit is to much.

 

So like Rift, i'm suggesting Bioware do the same thing Trion did and Baseline the Expertise Stat.

 

Meaning all PvP sets has the same level of Damage Reduction/Damage Add/Healing added.

 

The Difference between the sets will be the actual stats themselves.

[Vaipyr]

was smart enough to see my post and fix the problem.

 

The narcissistic delusions of grandeur are strong with this one.

[Xsorus]

The narcissistic delusions of grandeur are strong with this one.

 

It has nothing to do with Delusions of Grandeur

 

I made a Huge Thread in Rift about it, and the very next patch, They changed it to exactly what I said they should do.

 

Because It was a very basic game play design problem.

[CountAthaulf]

Yeah right, lets totaly turn this into the fragfest that rift was. And while we´re at it lets disable cc and add 1 button-to-rule-them-all macros like rift had. We should do all that because Rift

was renown for it´s great PVP and because PVPers didn´t leave Rift in droves

 

on a side note.. ruining one game wasn´t enough for you Op?

Edited April 14, 2012 by CountAthaulf

[Stadulator]

lmao your post and your post alone huh? Hhehe that's awesome I'm glad people with a sense of humor and sarcasm still occupy these forums

 

Cheers!

[Daecollo]

I agree with the OP.

[Xsorus]

Yeah right, lets totaly turn this into the fragfest that rift was. And while we´re at it lets disable cc and add 1 button-to-rule-them-all macros like rift had. We should do all that because Rift

was renown for it´s great PVP and because PVPers didn´t leave Rift in droves

 

.... Did you even read what I said?

 

The Change i talk about actually helped Fix the Massive Fragfest that Rift was.

 

In Rift, before they change the way the PvP stat worked, I'd throw down a single Mass Betrayal and wipe out everyone below Rank 6 in a matter of seconds.

 

After they changed this, It gave players who weren't higher rank in the game an actual chance to live.

 

In other words, If ya don't actually understand the concept, Don't make silly posts displaying ineptitude towards the subject.

 

Aka, the Adults are talking, go play in the corner.

[Narapoid]

I've read your post and agree with your proposed change.

[Zypheres]

Yeah right, lets totaly turn this into the fragfest that rift was. And while we´re at it lets disable cc and add 1 button-to-rule-them-all macros like rift had. We should do all that because Rift

was renown for it´s great PVP and because PVPers didn´t leave Rift in droves

 

on a side note.. ruining one game wasn´t enough for you Op?

 

I see what you did there.

[CountAthaulf]

Xsorsus, before i put you on ignore just one last thing.. nothiung helpedf riftts PVP , they

didn´t change it just because of your post oh and that nice little adult part... wow .. that really impressed me.... not

[Stealios]

/Signed

 

Wether designers of RIFT listened to OP or not, he has a point about the expertis just being gamebreaking for pvp.

 

1.2 Absolutely ruined pvp for me. The insane damage I can do because of my BM set has made pvp a 99% gear/ 1% skill style. It's ridiculous how quickly you can kill stuff (especially healers & tanks) without them even being able to hold you off until reinforcements arrive.

 

I've killed assassin tanks within 4 secs, which imo is just not fun for anyone.

 

If they'd give every pvp set just a set amount of defense/attack buff or whatever, that would make pvp so much more about actual skill than just gear grinding

Edited April 14, 2012 by Stealios

[Sraom]

I did not play RIFT, but this post absolutely makes sense.

[Visue]

An interesting thought. I'd like for this to be on the PTS (assuming they ever get around to adding character copies).

 

The narcissistic delusions of grandeur are strong with this one.

 

Great post. What an intelligent comment. This really adds to the discussion.

[Sholagar]

The narcissistic delusions of grandeur are strong with this one.

 

He may be delusional, but he's not wrong. Just like in Rift, expertise needs to be baselined.... i.e. recruit suits have the same amount of expertise as war hero/BM, the only difference would be the other stats (which are in themselves substantial advantages).

 

An additional 400 expertise on high levels is just a completely unecessary leg up for already better geared people....

[Xsorus]

Xsorsus, before i put you on ignore just one last thing.. nothiung helpedf riftts PVP , they

didn´t change it just because of your post oh and that nice little adult part... wow .. that really impressed me.... not

 

Yea, they so didn't make the change 2 weeks after My 100 page thread you're right *grin*

[Xsorus]

He may be delusional, but he's not wrong. Just like in Rift, expertise needs to be baselined.... i.e. recruit suits have the same amount of expertise as war hero/BM, the only difference would be the other stats (which are in themselves substantial advantages).

 

An additional 400 expertise on high levels is just a completely unecessary leg up for already better geared people....

 

Pretty much, there is zero reason to have an expertise difference between Gearsets, as you already have a Stat difference between the sets.

 

Hell, the difference between BM and Recruit is massive enough even without the Expertise difference, you have a huge increase in stats, + set bonuses.

[crashoverridex]

normalizing the valor stat (expertise in SWTOR) was the best thing they could have possibly done in RIFT for pvp. it actually made pvp fun and the game became more about builds and skill then who had the better gear. definitely a good change and one that SWTOR should implement asap

[xxdragonragexx]

OP obviously failed to realize that PvP stat isn't to give pvpers an advantage over PvErs or raiders.

 

PvP stat is created so that PvPers do not skip dungeons using pvp gear. It is why there is no pvp stat in mmo pvp centric games like warhammer, daoc, and so on. Lastly, Blizzard doesn't have a problem giving the BiS(Best In Slot) Gear to the raiders. It is clearly shown with the best trinket and weapon being dropped in raid boss rather than being given in arena.

 

This is a PvE centric game which is why there is a pvp stat. They calculate the amount of stat that players need to survive dungeons first before creating pvp gear with pvp stat which is why there is a huge gear gap because there needs to be a huge gear gap in PvE dungeon crawling.

[fungihoujo]

Good job OP, you put out a good idea... but because you decided to take the arrogant 'I'm so smart I get multi million dollar mmos to change based on my ideas alone' stance, this thread is now going to be a flame war about your arrogance instead of the merit of your ideas here.

[me_unknown]

finally, this is the first good and worth contribution to the expertise matter. a good idea. i too do not see any reason for having different levels of competence on the various sets. the stats differences are enough to sperate them.

[crashoverridex]

Good job OP, you put out a good idea... but because you decided to take the arrogant 'I'm so smart I get multi million dollar mmos to change based on my ideas alone' stance, this thread is now going to be a flame war about your arrogance instead of the merit of your ideas here.

 

this is true. suggest editing your post OP

Edited April 14, 2012 by crashoverridex

[Pizzel]

We all know Rift failed on the pvp front for numerous reasons. But the op has good points. Rift pvp was so far from skill based it was way worse than we have here. Plus it took 3x longer to get p8 than it did to get full BM on ToR.

 

Rifts pvp did make progress when they made that change. Only people who didn't like it were the people who just wanted to steamroll noobs. Only changes on gear was base stats. Which were too far off. Recruit does seem to be way off war hero and even BM. It would b better if all tiers had same expertise then just different base stats. Then it would just be HP and main Stat differences.

 

Right now things are jacked cuz we have full bms, full champs, part champ and cents and now recruit. Everyones gear is all over the place. I think in a few weeks when we have more bms things will balance out. Also war hero gear is gonna take forever to get so the bms aren gonna pull way away yet.

[Seriasx]

Great idea

[Xsorus]

OP obviously failed to realize that PvP stat isn't to give pvpers an advantage over PvErs or raiders.

 

PvP stat is created so that PvPers do not skip dungeons using pvp gear. It is why there is no pvp stat in mmo pvp centric games like warhammer, daoc, and so on. Lastly, Blizzard doesn't have a problem giving the BiS(Best In Slot) Gear to the raiders. It is clearly shown with the best trinket and weapon being dropped in raid boss rather than being given in arena.

 

This is a PvE centric game which is why there is a pvp stat. They calculate the amount of stat that players need to survive dungeons first before creating pvp gear with pvp stat which is why there is a huge gear gap because there needs to be a huge gear gap in PvE dungeon crawling.

 

a PvP stat existed in DAOC and Warhammer Online, you might not of noticed it in its form it took, but it existed.

 

It was called Realm Rank and Realm Rank Abilities.

[Forgon]

I've done this before, In rift, and Trion was smart enough to see my post and fix the problem.

 

So hopefully Bioware will heed my advice just the same.

 

Expertise is a stat that is broken in this game, It's broken because it's doing to much when combating a simple problem.

 

Expertise/Valor and whatever PvP stat is available in any other game was added for a reason, and that reason was to separate PVE gear from PvP gear. See Back in WoW, Blizzard noticed that no matter how good the PvPer was, if some Raider came along with epic gear that usually outclassed PvPers gear by a crap ton, He would crush the PvPer based entirely on the Stat Difference.

 

Blizzard Solution was to add a PvP stat Resilience to the game to give those who pvped an advantage over those who raided.

 

Now Think about that Solution for a second, This stat is entirely there to separate PVE and PvP gear. That's all it is meant for.

 

However a problem with current MMO's is they try and Tier the stat itself on PvP gear, For example in Rift, You had Lower rank gear with 20% reduction in damage, while higher rank gear had 30-40% damage reduction, This made ZERO sense in Gameplay design as the difference between the Lower Rank gear and the higher rank gear was already a huge Base Stat issue (aka higher rank gear had upwards to 3k more HP then lower rank gear, and close to 500 attackpower/spell power difference)

 

SWTOR has screwed up and went this same route, Before the patch it wasn't as noticeable, and the difference between Champion and BM was miniscule at best, and Cent was not to bad as to make a huge difference.

 

After this patch though, the difference between BM gear and Recruit is to much.

 

So like Rift, i'm suggesting Bioware do the same thing Trion did and Baseline the Expertise Stat.

 

Meaning all PvP sets has the same level of Damage Reduction/Damage Add/Healing added.

 

The Difference between the sets will be the actual stats themselves.

 

/signed

 

I want this fixed. It will at least help buffer the stats>skill discrepency pvp could cause.