Kothakk Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMhrd0rRGRZMcr.1 With the new changes how would u rate this tanking spec? I decided to go with more damage to FB since that is what u will mainly use to stack up the 8% extra shield absorb chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMcdZb.1 This is the spec I am using. The breakdown dps-wise looks like this: Rocket Punch - 27% dmg Flame Burst - 24% dmg Rail Shot - 14% dmg and the list trails off with quite a few 8's, 5s etc. This is with multiple attempts on Nightmare Pilgrim, Zorn and Toth HM. Incidentally, Ion Gas Cylinder and the Shock portion were about 5% of dmg each, but the actual numbers were pretty low. I have considered dropping Ion Overload in favor of Rail Shot damage, but IMHO losing the points in Iron Fist is a ton of wasted dps. RP is still your highest damage ability, so having it hit 8% harder is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urukkhan Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) Found this build more usefull for me, good tank & decent DPS (for a tank spec of course) and really nice rail shot crits http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdoroGRZMsZb.1 Edited April 14, 2012 by Urukkhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QiBao Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) Found this build more usefull for me, good tank & decent DPS (for a tank spec of course) and really nice rail shot crits http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdoroGRZMsZb.1 You skip 2% damage mitigation, which is a terrible choice. Prototype Cylinders sucks for Ion. RS is only going to be around 15% or so of your damage, so 2 points for 15*0.06 = 0.9% increased damage. I'd say 2% mitigation in a pve tank spec is very valuable. I'd use something like http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMcdZb.1 The point in Steely Resolve, Hot Iron can easily be moved for more PVP type talents or for flavor without a huge loss. Edited April 14, 2012 by QiBao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urukkhan Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 You skip 2% damage mitigation, which is a terrible choice. Prototype Cylinders sucks for Ion. RS is only going to be around 15% or so of your damage, so 2 points for 15*0.06 = 0.9% increased damage. I'd say 2% mitigation in a pve tank spec is very valuable. I'd use something like http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMcdZb.1 The point in Steely Resolve, Hot Iron can easily be moved for more PVP type talents or for flavor without a huge loss.Not so valuable if you geared well for tanking, there is no content in game where it were fatal fault, maybe I take Hot Iron instead prototipe cilinders, for this build for slightly better DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Not so valuable if you geared well for tanking, there is no content in game where it were fatal fault, maybe I take Hot Iron instead prototipe cilinders, for this build for slightly better DPS. I take it you haven't HM EC yet? Trust me, the 2% dmg mitigation is very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urukkhan Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) I take it you haven't HM EC yet? Trust me, the 2% dmg mitigation is very useful.If that so then better to go with something like 31/7/3 with maxed defences and health, killing things is not main tank purpose anyway, but doing dailies and other trivial stuff will be boring as hell Edited April 14, 2012 by Urukkhan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pure_laced Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Do you tank end game? If so, you would know that the 3% endurance at top level is roughly 600 hps. That may be fine on a single mob trash pull, but a boss that extra 600 hps isn't going to break you. Additionally, you want extra dmg in places you can get it. Dmg = threat. Toth and Zorn for instance has threat drops on leaps. Requires a taunt immediately, so you do not have time to roll taunts into your rotation for the extra threat gain it provides. I linked what I felt was the optimal spec for end game tanking currently through log parsing, and PTS experience. Someone else linked the same exact talent build (not sure why, it was already posted). Granted, it misses out on some cool things, pvp, etc. It is designed solely for end game HM and NiM content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 If that so then better to go with something like 31/7/3 with maxed defences and health, killing things is not main tank purpose anyway, but doing dailies and other trivial stuff will be boring as hell 3 points in Pyro to get the 3% Endurance talent, is definitely the biggest waste of points of the entire talent trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kothakk Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMcdZb.1 This is the spec I am using. The breakdown dps-wise looks like this: Rocket Punch - 27% dmg Flame Burst - 24% dmg Rail Shot - 14% dmg and the list trails off with quite a few 8's, 5s etc. This is with multiple attempts on Nightmare Pilgrim, Zorn and Toth HM. Incidentally, Ion Gas Cylinder and the Shock portion were about 5% of dmg each, but the actual numbers were pretty low. I have considered dropping Ion Overload in favor of Rail Shot damage, but IMHO losing the points in Iron Fist is a ton of wasted dps. RP is still your highest damage ability, so having it hit 8% harder is nice. Sweet thanks alot man. Truly appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratito Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 What about gear mods and status priority?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) 3 points in Pyro to get the 3% Endurance talent, is definitely the biggest waste of points of the entire talent trees. The guys healing me don't seem to think so. As a tank, I've never been asked how much damage I do, but I have been asked how many HP I have. Edited April 20, 2012 by Obtena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The guys healing me don't seem to think so. As a tank, I've never been asked how much damage I do, but I have been asked how many HP I have. The the guy who is healing you, is not asking the right questions with all do respect. Damage for a tank is not about how much you can contribute, but it is raw threat generation. When you are getting hit for 2-5k on hardmode Ops, what did that 3%(600hp) health boost do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratito Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The guys healing me don't seem to think so. As a tank, I've never been asked how much damage I do, but I have been asked how many HP I have. The the guy who is healing you, is not asking the right questions with all do respect. Damage for a tank is not about how much you can contribute, but it is raw threat generation. When you are getting hit for 2-5k on hardmode Ops, what did that 3%(600hp) health boost do? http://www.torhead.com/item/1uIrNTv/rakata-fortitude-stim Use: Increases Endurance by 112 and Defense by 46 for 120 minutes. Only one stimpack can be active at a time. This effect persists through defeat Endurance gives you 10 HP per single point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alifaraaz Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Think i'll move one point from Proto Cylinders to Hot Iron then ^^ And yeah we need the threat boost over 3% extra hp. If we do extra threat that means the 5 or 10 dps behind you can do extra damage too without pulling. Makes a world of a difference with tight enrage timers on certain bosses. (Talking about raiding ofc, other situations maybe 3% hp would help...but doubt it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) The the guy who is healing you, is not asking the right questions with all do respect. Damage for a tank is not about how much you can contribute, but it is raw threat generation. When you are getting hit for 2-5k on hardmode Ops, what did that 3%(600hp) health boost do? I'm not sure I'm following. Considering that most PVE tanks I'm aware of are stacking shield and absorb as primary stats, it would appear to be a contradiction to say that when choosing tree talents, you wouldn't also pick tanky stats as well. I would think that if people were having raw threat generation issues, they wouldn't be trending towards stacking shield and absorb or even using Shieldtech tree as heavily as they are for PVE tank builds. Perhaps what I'm seeing is a very localized trend on my server so if others want, they can chime in if I'm off-base here. I can only assume that the healer might be accustomed to aggro bouncing, knowing that tanks have tools to regain focus, so perhaps knowing that, they are less concerned with that bounce than they are for the tank's effective HP. Relevant to the question, I suspect some of you know if there is some conversion between damage and threat and if there are modifiers for it if you are a tank? Does such a thing exist? Edited April 20, 2012 by Obtena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 If you use flame-thrower every time it is off cool-down, putting 1 point into advanced tools will be a higher net dps increase than hot iron. You should be taking iron fist as its the main source of your damage. Also in the new raid content you have to save your taunt for specific mechanics, so holding threat through raw damage is much more essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrakkemarn Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Endurance is possible the least important tank stat to stack. You get all you need through gear and stims. Pretty much ANY other stat is more useful than Endurance (except for alacrity or accuracy past 10%). 2% damage mitigation is absurdly good for 2 points, and anything that boosts Rocket Punch, Flame Burst and Flamethrower is equally good. "Tanky stuff" = Defense, Shield and Absorb, which = mitigation. 3% HP is insignificant when compared to the ability to hold aggro off of marauders and mercs etc who burst hard, ESPECIALLY considering the tank swapping and aggro dumps in content. Not to mention, doing more dps as a tank means the boss dies that much faster. (Shorter fight = less chance of something going wrong or healer tapping out). Endurance provides nothing to help here. The difference between a build with Hot iron or Advanced Tools won't be huge. Advanced Tools could edge out Hot Iron IF and only if you are on the ball with your rotation and get the full cast on Flamethrower every time it's on CD and don't let it bust the 40 heat mark. Hot Iron is a safer bet IMO (again, tank swapping and movement required in EC and Lost Island, and the fact that AOE = bad in parts of the new fights). Edited April 21, 2012 by thrakkemarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/item/1uIrNTv/rakata-fortitude-stim Use: Increases Endurance by 112 and Defense by 46 for 120 minutes. Only one stimpack can be active at a time. This effect persists through defeat Endurance gives you 10 HP per single point hmm I am not following, what's your point. Avg ST player at 50 has about 20k hp. 3% of 20k is 600hp. What does that have to do with a stimpack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure I'm following. Considering that most PVE tanks I'm aware of are stacking shield and absorb as primary stats, it would appear to be a contradiction to say that when choosing tree talents, you wouldn't also pick tanky stats as well. I would think that if people were having raw threat generation issues, they wouldn't be trending towards stacking shield and absorb or even using Shieldtech tree as heavily as they are for PVE tank builds. Perhaps what I'm seeing is a very localized trend on my server so if others want, they can chime in if I'm off-base here. I can only assume that the healer might be accustomed to aggro bouncing, knowing that tanks have tools to regain focus, so perhaps knowing that, they are less concerned with that bounce than they are for the tank's effective HP. Relevant to the question, I suspect some of you know if there is some conversion between damage and threat and if there are modifiers for it if you are a tank? Does such a thing exist? Endurance is NOT on the priority list of any PT tank. Just being in "tanking" gear by default will give you the amount of health pool needed for any content. The juggling of specific gear is mainly to balance Shield/Absorb/defense. Anything beyond that goes towards Aim/Power. Spending 3points on 3% endurance never did nor will it ever increase the effectiveness of a tank. It's not so much that endurance is not important, it's that the investment is horrible. For 3 points, I probably consider it if it was at least 9% Endurance. Tanks in this game should put out as much dps as they can. There are situations where a tank would even switch to full dps gear. In at least 80% of the current content, having max defensive stats all time, to me, is a waste. Hec I tank HM FPs in DPS gear/spec. Edited April 21, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratito Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 hmm I am not following, what's your point. Avg ST player at 50 has about 20k hp. 3% of 20k is 600hp. What does that have to do with a stimpack? Just to show to Obtema who said "I Have Been asked how many HP I have." He can simply use a stimpack instead of spending the 2 talent points for 600hp boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Just to show to Obtema who said "I Have Been asked how many HP I have." He can simply use a stimpack instead of spending the 2 talent points for 600hp boost Oh I see, furthermore it's 3 points not 2, which makes it even worse lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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