1.2 Sorcs: What DPS are you seeing?

[loganninefingers]

Last night my guild ran a few attempts on EC. I was pulling around 1100 dps with a pure lightning build. In the interest of getting both an idea of where dps should be for each spec, and which spec seems to pull ahead, could you please post your noted DPS in the following format:

 

Spec: Lightning (3/31/7)

DPS: 1100

 

Other helpful info:

Noted on: (Operation/Warzone/Training Dummy): EC on Zorn and Toth

Gear: 80% Rakata

Log Analyzer: MOX

[warultima]

Last night my guild ran a few attempts on EC. I was pulling around 1100 dps with a pure lightning build. In the interest of getting both an idea of where dps should be for each spec, and which spec seems to pull ahead, could you please post your noted DPS in the following format:

 

Spec: Lightning (3/31/7)

DPS: 1100

 

Other helpful info:

Noted on: (Operation/Warzone/Training Dummy): EC on Zorn and Toth

Gear: 80% Rakata

Log Analyzer: MOX

 

0/10/31 Madness Sorc

Operation Dummy on my ship.

Full Rakata minus main hand and chest. (Using BM main hand + columi chest)

DPS: 1352

 

 

31/10/0 Annihilation/Carnage Marauder

Operation Dummy on my ship.

Full Champion PvP Armor carried from 1.1.5 no PvE gear on other than matrix cube.

DPS: 1462

 

See a problem here?

[loganninefingers]

 

See a problem here?

 

 

Actually I've seen the QQ about this on other sites, and I don't see a big problem. For target dummy this looks fine for two reasons:

1. There's a bug where dummys don't parry or dodge. This should decrease the DPS when this issue fixed.

2. Way more important than the point above, is how DPS changes in operations scenarios for melee vs ranged. Ranged has a huge advantage - fewer boss actions to run away from resulting in reduced dps time as well as easier to stay alive. Boss repositioning doesn't require movement for ranged etc.

 

TL;DR:If these were the numbers in a raiding environment then yes I'd see a problem. On the dummy it looks fine.

[Daellia]

Spec: Lightning (3/31/7)

DPS: 1252

 

Other helpful info:

Noted on: (Operation/Warzone/Training Dummy): EC Firebrand/Stormcaller Story

Gear: Mostly Rakata, couple Columi items left, optimally remodded with grade 24+

Log Analyzer: FryingTime

 

I'll be trialing 3/7/31 on Sunday on the latter two bosses.

[Elindiel]

how do you all even know for sure how much dps you're pulling? are you just doing mental math number crunching or is there some kind of damage meter program out now?

[Daellia]

how do you all even know for sure how much dps you're pulling? are you just doing mental math number crunching or is there some kind of damage meter program out now?

 

Combat logging exported to a log parser like FryingTime, AskMrRobot, or a number of others.

[loganninefingers]

See my post above on "Log Analyzer" Mox : http://memoriesofxendor.com/parser/desktop/ I like it as it's real time, and has a pop-out I overlay on top of my game to see my DPS

[pureeffinmetal]

Specc: 3/7/31

Parser: Ask Mr. Robot

DPS: 1341.4 dps over 184 seconds (all class buffs + Rakata stim)

Target: Operations Dummy

Gear: 824.x bonus damage 37.xx% crit 77.xx % Critical multiplier

 

Columi ear w/augment

Black Hole Force Lord Implant Mk3

Black Hole Force Lord Implant mk1

Rakata Bracers w/Augment

Rakata Relic w/Augment

Dark Surge Relic (168 internal damage)

Echo of Xoxaan

Rakata Stalkers Generator

Orange augmented head w/Rakata level mods

Orange augmented chest w/Rakata level mods

Rakata Force Master's Gloves

Rakata Belt w/augment

Oranged augmented legs w/Rakata mods

Rakata Force Master boots

 

I personally felt the 4 piece force master procc is not good enough to justify keeping it for now* over the extra 3, and soon to be 5 augment slots. Although I've not attempted to crunch numbers. Plus my character looks much better now which counts for something =P

 

If anyone wants the specifics of my bonus damage/crit/surge I can repost them later. But hopefully this is specific enough for any questions.

 

On a side note Force Lightning accounts for over 40% of my dps, and thus with a 20% armor penetration buff in a raid you would gain a 20% boost to 40% of your dps or a +8% dps increase with this build. This would roughly place Madness at 1450 dps with my specc and current gear.

 

I personally went with madness over hybrid because the 1-3% dps increase hybrid has only assumes you are exploiting lightning barrage on each procc. Due to human error, server lag, and aoe mechanics, I find its almost impossible to exploit every procc and therefore went with madness. I personally have only successfully been able to exploit every Lightning Barrage procc one time, on the EV council.

 

Very interested in this thread and would like to hear more about what people are getting.

 

On a side note my Full Rakata Marauder pulled 1423 dps over the same duration (annihilation). This could easily surpass 1500 overall given the fact you cannot execute on dummies.

 

My pyro powertech in a Columi/Rakata mix pulled 1352 dps over the same duration. Again this would probably increase due to the execute type abilities powertechs benefit from sub 30%.

Edited April 14, 2012 by pureeffinmetal

[Mjolnyr]

Alright I don't know if I'm just doing something very right or if my parser is messed up. I am using ACT (advanced combat tracker) and I have used it flawlessly for many MMOs so I hate to even consider that it is parsing incorrectly.

 

I am using the hybrid spec only instead of 1/12/28 I'm just using the the 13/28 because even though it got nerfed I still like chain lightning. Anyways I have been doing 5 min parse segments and am clocking around 1900-1920 dps consistently

 

My rotation is just keeping affliction up and using wrath procs only for crushing darkness and death field every time its up, trying to time it right at the start to consume affliction ticks more than crushing darkness ones.

 

My gear is mostly rakata but I have some crafted pieces that people see as less effective but I have them because I wanted to try a power stacking build

 

This was all done on my operations dummy on my ship, and this wasn't a fluke one time attempt I took a screen shot of the closest to average segment as I could fine out of hours of segments.

 

Here are snips of my stats just before engaging (self buffed with rakata stim) and one of the damage breakdown of a segment, as you can see I threw a shock in there...I get bored sometimes with the new rotation =(

 

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc198/Mijolnyr/gear.png

 

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc198/Mijolnyr/dps1900.png

Edited April 16, 2012 by Mjolnyr

[dunkelhaar]

@Mjolnyr

 

something doesnt seem right. Too much dps for your amount of willpower. Try use MOXParser and see if you get the same results.

[Priestr]

He loaded the swtor plugin parser in act twice, so it doubles the dps, it happend to me too. so take his dps/2 and u got the real one.

[Garricus]

Hi guys, if you are going to compare DPS from multiple builds, we should have some ground rules imo.

 

1. The fight should last 6mins in length on an Operations Target Dummy.

2. We should have all the class buffs, no rakata stim/adrenal

3. Your toon should be in Full Rakata or BM.

4. We should use http://www.torparse.com as the parser, it has a link back feature so we can see the log to your fight.

 

This will give us a decent comparison between the different builds, and an average dps instead of burst dps from short fights.

 

I'll go first.

 

Name: Stellvia

Gear: Full Rakata

Build: 1/12/28

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZfcM0bZcMcRsrkrc.1

Combat Log Parse 6min Fight:

http://www.torparse.com/a/808?q=MXw4MDh4NTM4ODM1N2E1MzkwMzYyeDE=

1158.98dps @ 6m:32s

[Martvor]

Agree but my class buffs includes BH buff atm.

 

and working on warrior buff and operative buff for my sorcerer (sweet legacy )

 

so remove all your buffs just to inquisitor one right ?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Martvor

[Hokonoso]

@Mjolnyr

 

something doesnt seem right. Too much dps for your amount of willpower. Try use MOXParser and see if you get the same results.

 

actually if you stack enough power and pop all cooldowns his #'s dont seem off at all, most ppl are parsing blank with nothing going on at all, also ppl dont know the power of having 800+ bonus force dmg, who needs crits when you hit for 4k uncrit? and the stim adds another 500 almost which adds tons of burst for a short parse since he uses it twice.

 

ACT works perfectly btw, only sad thing i noticed is, i jumped on my marauder using fresh 50 gear (havent bought any recruit gear as i only use it to craft) and parsed 1022 as carnage (the weaker of the 3 builds) and was impressed considering how much more dps i would have done if i was annihilation, let alone had any gear vs 124 rated weapons.

[Mjolnyr]

He loaded the swtor plugin parser in act twice, so it doubles the dps, it happend to me too. so take his dps/2 and u got the real one.

 

I did not load the plugin twice I know how to setup and operate act just fine.

 

I did however find the problem, the act plugin even though it says its version 1.0.0 it isn't. BW changed the combatlogs slightly before it went live and they updated the act plugin on 4/11. The old plugin did not read the timestamps correctly.

 

I've updated it and it now reads time correctly so if you have the plugin you used with the PTS you need to go download it again.

 

I have more testing ahead now that all my old data is worthless =/

[Karkais]

I tried my madness/lightning hybrid sorc on the Mk-5 operations dummy and exported the log to the blacksheeptroopers log analyzer.

 

I got 1032 dps with my mostly columni gear (except belt, lightsaber and 1 implant which are tionese quality) over 10 minute period.

 

willpower 1752 (with specialists resolve stim)

bonus damage 676.7

forcemaster 4-set, occasional use of +380 power for 20s relic.

Powers used: affliction, force lightning, death field, crushing darkness.

 

no macros were used, I did it by hand. I hope this info is beneficial to somebody as I feel inferior to all these guys with rakata gear ^^

 

I forgot if I had the agent buff or not.

 

link if it works

Edited April 16, 2012 by Karkais

[dragonfor]

Hi guys, if you are going to compare DPS from multiple builds, we should have some ground rules imo.

 

1. The fight should last 6mins in length on an Operations Target Dummy.

2. We should have all the class buffs, no rakata stim/adrenal

3. Your toon should be in Full Rakata or BM.

4. We should use http://www.torparse.com as the parser, it has a link back feature so we can see the log to your fight.

 

This will give us a decent comparison between the different builds, and an average dps instead of burst dps from short fights.

 

I'll go first.

 

Name: Stellvia

Gear: Full Rakata

Build: 1/12/28

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201oZfcM0bZcMcRsrkrc.1

Combat Log Parse 6min Fight:

http://www.torparse.com/a/808?q=MXw4MDh4NTM4ODM1N2E1MzkwMzYyeDE=

1158.98dps @ 6m:32s

Flawed idea is flawed. You're trying to equalize everything to get varying numbers, when in fact the varying numbers come from differentials.

 

Also, telling a Biochem that he can't use an adrenal that he will always have, is nearly the equivelant of telling a Warrior not to use his offhand.

[loganninefingers]

An Update on my post, I tried hybrid yesterday, went to KP and on Bonecrusher did 1350 dps on average (we did both normal and hard mode on this boss and DPS didnt really change much). Looks like hybrid is significantly better than lightning, which makes sense since movement doesn't affect it as much.

 

On the test dummys, with no class buffs other than the SI one, and no debuffs on the boss as I was the only one hitting it, I was at 1250 using hybrid, and 1150 using lightning. Hybrid wins out again with a 100 dps difference.

[Daellia]

On the test dummys, with no class buffs other than the SI one, and no debuffs on the boss as I was the only one hitting it, I was at 1250 using hybrid, and 1150 using lightning. Hybrid wins out again with a 100 dps difference.

 

Oh my, then hybrid must be a full 8.7% better than Lightning! Everyone start using it immediately!

 

This is why I hate parses. There are far too many variables to actually get reliable data on spec comparisons. Did it perhaps occur to you that Lightning has a significantly more complex (and easier to screw up) damage system than the hybrid build?

 

The hybrid build is literally nothing more than keeping Affliction active and Crushing Darkness and DF on cooldown, and spamming FL otherwise.

 

Lightning relies on keeping Affliction active, Crushing Darkness and TB on cooldown (TB only if Affliction won't expire before the cast finishes), using Lightning Barrage on proc, CL on proc, and LS filler, weaving LS to keep Subversion and Conduction active. In addition, Lightning Barrage and CL must be delayed as necessary to ensure that Aff, CD, and TB remain active/on cooldown, as there's no DPS loss to delaying FL or CL as long as you cast them within 10 seconds of the proc.

 

So perhaps you're just better at the hybrid build? No, that couldn't possibly be it, could it?

 

Sorry to be pretty excessively sarcastic here, but I'm kinda sick of people trying to post parses as if they hold any statistical weight at all, much less as if they are definitive markers of the performance differences between the specs.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Daellia

[Garricus]

Flawed idea is flawed. You're trying to equalize everything to get varying numbers, when in fact the varying numbers come from differentials.

 

Also, telling a Biochem that he can't use an adrenal that he will always have, is nearly the equivelant of telling a Warrior not to use his offhand.

 

Thinking isn't your forte. The idea to not use biochem stuff is because not everyone is biochem. The idea was to try and have numbers posted by people who are almost in similar gear, stats, and buffs.

[Karkais]

musings:

Im fairly certain theres still no reason to use lightning strike, even in a lightning build. I dont believe it does any good. My own inferior build dropped around 100 dps over 10-minute period when I tried to lightning strike as alternative use for wrath.

 

Chain lightning is also rather lackluster as singletarget attack now if it cant get the +20% damage boost from wrath. The only meaningful use for chain lightning seems to be clearing trash: full channel of force storm on multiple mobs-> lightning storm most likely procs -> chain lightning. Thats the only use for chain lightning. Trying to get lightning storm to proc from lightning strike is simply stupid.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Karkais

[Daellia]

Im fairly certain theres still no reason to use lightning strike, even in a lightning build. I dont believe it does any good. My own inferior build dropped around 100 dps over 10-minute period when I tried to lightning strike as alternative use for wrath.

 

Lightning Strike has enough propping it up to use at least in a Lightning build. Conduction, Forked Lightning, Subversion, and Lightning Storm all put it high enough that regular use is encouraged. However, Lightning builds still gain dps by weaving in FL (though not quite as often as on cooldown).

 

And CL is definitely worth using single-target, particularly due to the boost from Reverberation.

 

You're correct on Wrath, though: using it on Lightning Strike is a dps loss.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Daellia

[Carjitsu]

Daellia does your sim take into acct the defences (and lack of) ratings to various forms of damage. Wondering because my parse of hybrid is consistantly lower than madness on champ dummy. Thinking this may be due to internal damage vs. w/e FL damage is ?

[Daellia]

Daellia does your sim take into acct the defences (and lack of) ratings to various forms of damage. Wondering because my parse of hybrid is consistantly lower than madness on champ dummy. Thinking this may be due to internal damage vs. w/e FL damage is ?

 

It takes it into account. Actually, that's an interesting point, since the parses assume armor reduction debuffs are present, which is valid for a raid setting, but is unlikely to be the case in the majority of target dummy tests. This is particularly important, as Lightning gains 33.4% of its damage from Internal or Elemental sources (the remainder being armor-mitigated Energy damage), according to the sims, and Madness gains 36.0%, while Hybrid gains only 22.1%. Hybrid would gain significantly more dps than Madness from the armor reduction debuffs normally present in a raid setting (lightning would gain a very slight amount more than Madness).

 

Here's a link to the 1.2 PTS Simcraft results. Note that this is a couple weeks old, so some of the information is out of date, but it's a good source of comparison.

 

One last note, I'm not sure how many people have noticed this yet (and it has yet to be included in SimC, slated for the next release update), but Creeping Terror did get stealth-buffed in 1.2. Specifically, Creeping Terror now deals a tick of damage instantly upon application (similar to Force Lightning), plus another 6 ticks over the 18 second duration. This means it now ticks 7 times, rather than 6.

 

Now, everyone's automatic impulse about changes like this is to assume the damage has simply been "spread out" across the increased number of ticks. This isn't the case. The game data for the ability has not changed, and annotates damage per tick, not total damage done. Observed in-game tick magnitude matches the game file data. This means that CT's total damage and thus DPCT has been increased by 16.7%. Rough napkin math shows this to be a DPS increase of roughly 1.7% for Madness, placing it less than 1% behind the Hybrid build (and nearly 2% ahead of Lightning).

[Daellia]

Correction to last, apparently CT was improperly coded in SimC and has been simming with an initial tick since January. Madness DPS includes this effect (what used to be a bug is now a feature o.O), so Madness's simmed DPS has not changed.