Mar/Sents

[Blloodbane]

they never could do this pre patch at level 50 with both, them and opponent in t2 or above.

though they could before and after patch before level 50.

 

beside of this you seem to not have a cloe about neither the class sage/sorc nor the patch changes to them.

any class but a gunnery commando losing to a dd sage/sorc is only due to a stupid player.

 

dd sages/sorcs were the easiest to kill and after 1.2 they got even easier to kill.

 

lets add rephrase this...

 

Sages/Sorcs were the easiest to kill of the healers pre 1.2

 

there IS a difference between, being the easiest (of a group) and being easy to kill. Every Sage Sorc thats complaining now is basically complaining about the same one class in majority... Mara's and Sent's

[viLe-]

One of our Watchman Sents tried his all out burst (adrenals, relics all CDs) against one of our sages in a duel today, just to see whats possible.

Both are full BM with 2 war hero pieces each and it took him <5 seconds to kill the sage.

 

Good marauders/sents were borderline OP before 1.2 already, but the expertise/overall ttk changes in 1.2 put them way above every other class.

They are extremely strong 1v1, they take out healers better than any other class, they have the best defensive cooldowns of all classes, they have great mobility, a 50% ms buff for the whole group, a decent escape mechanism, 6 second cd interrupt, decent self healing and a 20% healing debuff.

 

And no sorcs/sages could never tank marauders/sents even as a healer, a -good- watchman sent could destroy any sorc/sage in a 1v1 pre 1.2.

[Apoxie]

One of our Watchman Sents tried his all out burst (adrenals, relics all CDs) against one of our sages in a duel today, just to see whats possible.

Both are full BM with 2 war hero pieces each and it took him <5 seconds to kill the sage.

 

Good marauders/sents were borderline OP before 1.2 already, but the expertise/overall ttk changes in 1.2 put them way above every other class.

They are extremely strong 1v1, they take out healers better than any other class, they have the best defensive cooldowns of all classes, they have great mobility, a 50% ms buff for the whole group, a decent escape mechanism, 6 second cd interrupt, decent self healing and a 20% healing debuff.

 

And no sorcs/sages could never tank marauders/sents even as a healer, a -good- watchman sent could destroy any sorc/sage in a 1v1 pre 1.2.

 

Please post the combat log of this. A full BM sage with bubble and mitigation has at least 20.000 effective hp, so your claiming the semt has over 4.000 dps?

[Kyhren]

Its Werid.... I'm a marauder. Last night i had a smuggler open up on me and I was down to 40%... 7 seconds later even after I hit him with ravage he I was dead and he was at 50%

 

Then again, last night, an assassin opens up on me. I only get him down to 70% before I die. I used ravage on him... Why didn't they die? You all say that she should be dead in 3 GCDs but is more like these classes kill in a few GCDs.

 

OH that's right they knew how to play their class and totally countered my ravage.

 

Ravage is a channeled 3 seconds ability on a 30s CD and you can all use you awesome stuns, knockbacks, and mezzes to completely counter it.

 

Stop the QQ and l2p.

If you are dying in 3 GDCs you are doing it wrong. You can other blame your gear( which is a fair thing to do they should fix the expertise gap), or blame yourself.

 

Oh sweet irony... so delicious.

[Surbatu]

Please post the combat log of this. A full BM sage with bubble and mitigation has at least 20.000 effective hp, so your claiming the semt has over 4.000 dps?

logic? common sense?

sents JUST DO 9000 damage per second

lol

ignorance is strong in this thread

[viLe-]

Please post the combat log of this. A full BM sage with bubble and mitigation has at least 20.000 effective hp, so your claiming the semt has over 4.000 dps?

 

We were just screwing around and dueling, and he didnt use his bubble.

It was just "Stand there and let me try how fast i can kill you with all my offensive cooldowns."

Obviously in real duels he survived a bit longer with CCs, bubble, force speed etc.

But still it was all one way traffic with the sage going down very fast.

 

Either sent/marauder damage needs to be toned down significantly or overall TTK has to be changed back to pre 1.2 lvls.

Just try it out yourself, send 2 good marauders/sents who know how to rotate interrupts against an equally geared tank/healer combo and watch them blow up the healer and the tank in the process in <10 seconds.

 

Add everything else from my previous post to that damage and you have a class that's way above every other AC atm.

[NuSeC]

Yeah... you are QQing because Sorcs can no longer run the show. (Michael)

People complaining about Mara/Sents with Stealth. Its like 4 seconds. Im a jug tank and have 0 issues knowing how to control the Cooldows of a mara. When they pop you run away.... just like you would not stand there and let a merc tracer spam you. then when they are down you wax his face. Learn what cooldows do what and watch for them... sadly this is a L2P issue. People dont watch for things being channeled or relics being popped and wonder how they die, is it really that much of a mystery? CC when they pull undieing rage... maras have hardly have any cc abilities. once again LTP.

 

 

Micheal... Flux is teh lame

[The-Smasher]

Its obvious mara/sent is OP if not just by the way people are flocking too it. In pugs their advantage is minimal but in a premade situation with dedicated heals they are so ridiculous literally fight them to 100 hp they pop invuln stun/root and invis away only to come back moments later out of stealth full hp ready to do it all again. So OP nerf nerf nerf nerf

[Blloodbane]

Its obvious mara/sent is OP if not just by the way people are flocking too it. In pugs their advantage is minimal but in a premade situation with dedicated heals they are so ridiculous literally fight them to 100 hp they pop invuln stun/root and invis away only to come back moments later out of stealth full hp ready to do it all again. So OP nerf nerf nerf nerf

 

 

And those same people flocking to it will not last long and be right back here BMC'ing about a class that just owned them too.

[ComeAndSee]

Marauders damage is fine, but their survivability is too much.

 

Cloak of Pain - Refreshing on DOT ticks needs to go. In mass PvP they can get this up to 30 seconds very easily and 20% dmg reduction for that long is just freaking obnoxious. I say 15 seconds max on this.

 

99% damage reduction ability - Please replace this with absorb instead or add a penalty to their damage while under its effect.

 

//

 

Cloak of Pain is a pain in the ***. 1v1 I usually just wait for it to fall off, but sometimes my DOT is on them and it'll refresh 2-3 times. Also, that 99% dmg reduction is just rid. when they're sitting there plowing into you when they're sitting at 500 HP and they can do 20-40% of your HP before they go down.

Edited April 23, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Teardropz]

Fact: OP/Smugglers were in fact "OP" and with any gear they could devastate the WZ scene when game launched. The QQ for nerf came shortly after and they were obviously fixed.

Fact: Sorc/Sages Lighting Spamming/bubble/healing was extremely too good and then was nerfed. Makes sense right?

Fact: BH taking out any opponent within 4 sec with 16k health was just shameful that it wasn't fixed alot sooner. They were then reevaluate... and now much more manageable to fight against.

Fact: Assassin Tanks do too much dmg in tank stance, guarding someone and while taking so little damage IN comparison to any other tank in game. Yes Fact. But that's a whole different topic that is I'm sure, being looked into.

 

 

Listed above were relevant "Hot Fixes" Now lets move on to the topic on hand, shall we.

 

1.2 comes around, Sentinels get 1 buff(among some fixes), 15% master strike... which apparently is causing so much QQing in these forums... that it's pretty much the same context in each thread. Simple truth, you all think that a 15% Master Strike buff is destroying your game play, then maybe you should consider PvEing more. On many many threads present and past, there has been said that interrupting the Sentinel Master Strike ability was easy as cake. Every class has an ability to do so. All this screaming for a nerf is really getting out of hand, it's almost laughable. There is always a class that some leet player is maxing out its potential and then the whole world is calling for a nerf.

 

Bottom line: MMO's are ruined by the -casual- player who consider the Backpeddler their friend and Mouse clicking their neighbor and want to scrutinize the games mechanics over their piss poor "skill" to pvp effectively.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Teardropz

[me_unknown]

Fact: Sorc/Sages Lighting Spamming/bubble/healing was extremely too good and then was nerfed. Makes sense right?.

wrong! and if you would understand the patch notes you would see that actually nothing changed what would have a significiant infuence on what you claim.

[Sookster]

Fact: Assassin Tanks do too much dmg in tank stance, guarding someone and while taking so little damage IN comparison to any other tank in game. Yes Fact. But that's a whole different topic that is I'm sure, being looked into.

 

Pure tank sin/shadow doesn't do too much damage, decent damage yes. It's the 27/0/14 hybrids that are the problem. Devs "fix" a few patches ago was to make stances cost 100 force, what a lame fix as it didn't fix anything.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sookster

[Sevvy]

It's funny how on my Powertech, I ruin Marauders and Sentinels. And on my Sentinel, I ruin Powertechs and Vanguards.

 

I must be OP! Or it could be the most profound thing anyone will say in this thread...

 

90% of the MMO population has no idea how to play their own class, let alone how to play against another class. That is why there is so much QQ on MMO forums about every single class being OP and every single class being absolutely worthless in PvP. The problem is YOU. I'd say "L2P" but you won't.

[ComeAndSee]

Fact: OP/Smugglers were in fact "OP" and with any gear they could devastate the WZ scene when game launched. The QQ for nerf came shortly after and they were obviously fixed.

Fact: Sorc/Sages Lighting Spamming/bubble/healing was extremely too good and then was nerfed. Makes sense right?

Fact: BH taking out any opponent within 4 sec with 16k health was just shameful that it wasn't fixed alot sooner. They were then reevaluate... and now much more manageable to fight against.

Fact: Assassin Tanks do too much dmg in tank stance, guarding someone and while taking so little damage IN comparison to any other tank in game. Yes Fact. But that's a whole different topic that is I'm sure, being looked into.

 

 

Listed above were relevant "Hot Fixes" Now lets move on to the topic on hand, shall we.

 

1.2 comes around, Sentinels get 1 buff(among some fixes), 15% master strike... which apparently is causing so much QQing in these forums... that it's pretty much the same context in each thread. Simple truth, you all think that a 15% Master Strike buff is destroying your game play, then maybe you should consider PvEing more. On many many threads present and past, there has been said that interrupting the Sentinel Master Strike ability was easy as cake. Every class has an ability to do so. All this screaming for a nerf is really getting out of hand, it's almost laughable. There is always a class that some leet player is maxing out its potential and then the whole world is calling for a nerf.

 

Bottom line: MMO's are ruined by the -casual- player who consider the Backpeddler their friend and Mouse clicking their neighbor and want to scrutinize the games mechanics over their piss poor "skill" to pvp effectively.

 

It's a perfect combination of things.

 

1. Healers got nerfed. They can't sit there and solo heal themselves without support through 2 DPS anymore.

2. Damage was increased across the board plus new gear = more damage.

3. A lot of people running around with low expertise. Expertise is jesus stat now if you want to PvP.

4. Marauders aren't leashed on their full potential. They're really a class that has an answer for every situation and in a good players hand they become the best class in game.

[Fightera]

I play a BM sorc and before the patch we were getting 4 shotted by mara's and some juggs lol. With all the cc and sprint you would think we could get away from them but yea nope if a mara or jugg wants to stay on you he can. None of this has changed and honestly if they kill me even faster now it doesnt make much of a difference as the sorc survivability to dps ratio is the issue.

 

Squishiest class needs to have the highest burst and atm its one of the least squishy classes with tons of def cd's that has the highest burst.

 

But hey the forums on here all complained that omg sorcs are op sorcs are op. They were sooo far from op its stupid and if you actually played end game pvp you would know that we have been getting 3 to 4 shotted for months now. Posting large dps numbers in a voidstar just means you have good aoe as a sorc your not actually killing anyone as healers easily heal through sorc damage and dots.

 

back on topic

 

Honestly they are right you can see this ability coming a mile away and you really do just need to use your break cc ability and run away. If your break cc ability is on cc well thems the breaks kids. It's like that for smuggs and ops too if your break cc ability is down you are dead and hell even if its not your likely dead or at 20% health after they open on you soo as much as it sucks its actually fine. The issue is too much cc and too little survivability for some classes especially the sorc.

 

QFT

Pantera (Sorc ) - Lord Calypho

[Sevvy]

QFT

Pantera (Sorc ) - Lord Calypho

 

Don't "QFT" that post, the kid is wrong. Avoiding Master Strike/Ravage isn't about using your CC break and running away. Honestly, if you use your CC break to avoid that, you're doing it all wrong. Sorcs have a ton of utility. If you use it right, and you're smart, you're not easy to kill. The problem, is that most everyone that plays this game is terrible. And then on top of that, 95% of Sorcs are terrible. Because you all picked what you thought was a faceroll class, and it's not. Oops!

 

The problem with Sorcs vs. me using Master Strike, is that I'm smarter than they are. They fill my resolve bar, and then I use Master Strike. And then they are dead.

 

Be smarter, die less. This game is hard.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sevvy

[Blloodbane]

QFT

Pantera (Sorc ) - Lord Calypho

 

You quoted someone complaining about being 4 shotted by Sents/mara??? Seriously? Truth???

 

If they are getting 4 shotted, they etiher need to get some PVP gear on or they are missing the assist of damage from a 2nd person.

[Dracosz]

I don't normally whine about classes on the forums, but when I do, it's about marauders!

 

Levity aside...

 

Marauder damage is fine, for the most part. I'm more concerned with the strength of abilities like undying rage which is extremely powerful on such a short cooldown. While many marauders/sents have cited CC as a means to counter the ability, the fact of the matter is that with all their cds (Except cloak of pain) on such a short cd, it becomes relatively simple for them to utilize them in a fashion wherein they can effectively chain them and make it difficult for any class to stand up to them during said duration.

 

I absolutely shred marauders on my juggernaut (yes, it's very possible to do if you know what you're doing). The issue is, with the effective barrier for gear scaling removed from specs like carnage and especially annihilation, gear does not matter when any half-wit marauder can chain CDs to force every CD out of you. Against a geared Marauder, the fight becomes much more finesse and positionally oriented as well timed force pushes can change the tide of a fight.

 

Undying rage is the culprit for the rage, I guarantee it. It needs to have a much longer CD (3-5 minutes) or the effect needs to reduce damage dealt by the marauder by a significant amount (40-60%) to bring it more into line with other mirror abilities in mmos.

[Threatcon]

Mar/Sent's need a Look over by BW again. As a Focus Guardian with all cd's up i still cant even put a dent into them. Valor rank 78 atm with full bm and 2 WH (unrated) pieces. THIS IS A ISSUE. No class should be that indestructible and put out that much damage. i hit normal BM geared imps for 5.2-5.5k, however if it is a mar/sent it will be around 3-3.3k. Please look into this BW.

[Sevvy]

Mar/Sent's need a Look over by BW again. As a Focus Guardian with all cd's up i still cant even put a dent into them. Valor rank 78 atm with full bm and 2 WH (unrated) pieces. THIS IS A ISSUE. No class should be that indestructible and put out that much damage. i hit normal BM geared imps for 5.2-5.5k, however if it is a mar/sent it will be around 3-3.3k. Please look into this BW.

 

LOL!

 

"I can't Smash spec faceroll Marauders. Please look into this BW!"

 

That's probably because some Mara/Sents spec into 30% less AoE damage, and we have Cloak/Rebuke up as soon as you get on us. That, again, goes back to talking about knowing other classes when you fight them in PvP.

 

I have good fights with non-bad Guardian/Juggernauts. The rest come here and QQ about my class.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sevvy

[NuSeC]

It's funny how on my Powertech, I ruin Marauders and Sentinels. And on my Sentinel, I ruin Powertechs and Vanguards.

 

I must be OP! Or it could be the most profound thing anyone will say in this thread...

 

90% of the MMO population has no idea how to play their own class, let alone how to play against another class. That is why there is so much QQ on MMO forums about every single class being OP and every single class being absolutely worthless in PvP. The problem is YOU. I'd say "L2P" but you won't.

 

^^^ Spot on.

 

And if you don't say it... I will... L2P! You people are ranting about things like you know the class when it is clear you don't.

Talking about being rooted and uninterpretable Ravage... yeah if they SPEC that way. People mixing up added abilities and acting like it all comes from the same skill tree. You know nothing of the class that you are complaining about. I don't beat people down because my class is OP I beat them down because they build my resolve and waste knock-backs on me then get pwned. Learn what the other classes are, read the forums and release notes and learn from them. Don't get waxed then come in here and gripe when you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Altsein]

It's funny how on my Powertech, I ruin Marauders and Sentinels. And on my Sentinel, I ruin Powertechs and Vanguards.

 

I must be OP! Or it could be the most profound thing anyone will say in this thread...

 

90% of the MMO population has no idea how to play their own class, let alone how to play against another class. That is why there is so much QQ on MMO forums about every single class being OP and every single class being absolutely worthless in PvP. The problem is YOU. I'd say "L2P" but you won't.

 

And sadly all the noobs in this thread will just skip this post as if they hadn't seen it.

 

Let the QQ continue!

[PloGreen]

Don't "QFT" that post, the kid is wrong. Avoiding Master Strike/Ravage isn't about using your CC break and running away. Honestly, if you use your CC break to avoid that, you're doing it all wrong. Sorcs have a ton of utility. If you use it right, and you're smart, you're not easy to kill. The problem, is that most everyone that plays this game is terrible. And then on top of that, 95% of Sorcs are terrible. Because you all picked what you thought was a faceroll class, and it's not. Oops!

 

The problem with Sorcs vs. me using Master Strike, is that I'm smarter than they are. They fill my resolve bar, and then I use Master Strike. And then they are dead.

 

Be smarter, die less. This game is hard.

 

I rolled a sage from day one of early access and have played it in pvp since the second day of that access. If you would care to explain how a sage tools completley counter a maras I'm all ears. Resolve kicks in far quicker using sage cc on a mara to make it effective, you have two froms of cc unless you spec deep into balance and use sever force (resolve free), but even that is not enough now, you do that you run into force depletion issues, thats the biggest issue with heavy balance builds.

 

That leaves you with hybrid options, and then only decent root is one on the knockback, which is actually a mezz and breaks on damage, or the stun from when the shield breaks. Neither are that effective.

 

When are sorc/sage supposed to use their "amazing cc" (which in fact is one instant mezz for 60 seconds if specced for, a 4 seconds stun, a knock back with a mez effect, or sever force root). As you say stupid sorc fill the resolve bar, well my friend "stupid sorc" dont have much choice if they are trying to keep you off them, they will inevitably use some cc or some form of "uber utility" that simply breaks when its hit by another douchebag on your team who is also probably filling the maras resolve bar. So yes unless the mara is incredibly stupid you are not kiting anything to a decent standard, and are usually worm food for a competent player using that ac.

[PloGreen]

^^^ Spot on.

 

And if you don't say it... I will... L2P! You people are ranting about things like you know the class when it is clear you don't.

Talking about being rooted and uninterpretable Ravage... yeah if they SPEC that way. People mixing up added abilities and acting like it all comes from the same skill tree. You know nothing of the class that you are complaining about. I don't beat people down because my class is OP I beat them down because they build my resolve and waste knock-backs on me then get pwned. Learn what the other classes are, read the forums and release notes and learn from them. Don't get waxed then come in here and gripe when you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I know it needs rebalancing, thats all i need to know.