Annihilation builds for 1.2

[lollermittens]

 

empowerment is a nice ability, passive rage generation is never a bad thing

 

and its not a matter of "needing" that 1 extra point for something in particular, its a matter of generating rage passively, the more passive generation you have, the less active generation you need to do

 

Right. And a mechanic that generates 1 Rage based on a low-RNG with a .3 coefficient which is also limited by a 1.5 second activation timer (essentially every GCD) is not optimal in any way for PvP since you're looking at fights which last a short amount of time and where burst is optimal -- especially with the changes to Expertise in 1.2, that's exactly what BW is shooting for.

 

Again, Empowerment was proven to be a mildly useful PvE ability since it "shines" over prolonged period of time (see http://www.sithwarrior.com for more details.). I see absolutely no point in using it for PvP especially when we have the possiblity to use those extra two points for a talent that gives us an extra 2 second of invisibility which is going to be crucial to escape fights, reset fights, and destabilize your enemy's rotation.

 

enraged charge is not worth the points

 

charge generates 3 rage, enraged charge turns that into 4

 

0 rage -> charge

4 rage -> DS

1 rage -> hmm, 1 rage, cant do anything with that, have to build some now

 

it doesnt change anything for your opener, you still have to charge > DS > BA even if you have enraged charge

 

unless you are starting a fight with rage already built up, in which case enraged charge matters even less

 

My mistake, I forgot to include BA in my rotation. Charge (3 Rage) -> Deadly Saber (1 Rage) -> Rupture (2 Rage; but you get refunded 1 Rage if spec'd into the ability, so essentially 1 Rage) -> BA -> etc.

 

You cannot apply Charge -> Deadly Saber -> Rupture without Enraged Charge. Otherwise you'd have to sneak in an Assault in there or use BA right after Charge instead of Rupture which applies an essential 50% slow now.

 

And I think that applying a slow on your target is the most important factor as most classes (besides Marauders/Juggs/Assassins) are going to be kiting you as soon as you Charge or start attacking them. Since most classes have a 15% increased run speed ability, any time spent chasing an opponent like a decapitated goose is a loss of DPS for a class (and build if we're still talking about Anni) that is 100% reliant in dishing out single target damage.

Edited April 12, 2012 by lollermittens

[lollermittens]

I would get rid of the Malice points, move them to Ravager and add 1 point to Hemorrhage. Marauders don't have many Force Abilities, and 6% increase isn't that much for the 4 or 5 force abilities Marauders have.

 

With Ravager, you get bonus damage with Ravage (in my opinion the best Marauder move for damage output) and 3 less seconds of waiting to use it again. Hemorrhage is also good to have more points in because the damage would be increased every time you activate Rupture, Deadly Saber, and any other bleeding effects.

 

I use Deadly Saber whenever I can, which is very often, and it greatly increases damage output, so having even more damage added on to that would be really great.

 

But yeah, that's just my playstyle, so if you like having your Force moves Crit more often, then that's fine.

 

The idea that Ravage is one of our best damage dealing ability is simply incorrect. We'll be able to accurately back this statement with facts now that we have access to a combat log but for an ability that is reliant on a channeled, 3-second cast to deal out all of its damage, it's situational at best.

 

Ravage is great against the morons who just sit there while you're wailing on them. With the changes to healing and expertise, this isn't going to be that prevalent anymore. Anybody with a modicum of PvP experience simply runs away at the sight of any Marauders/Sentinels casting a channeled ability that isn't choking you mid-air.

 

Telling people to put points into Ravager as an Anni build is like telling healers they should invest 2 points in an ability that purely increases their DPS: it's useless.

[DestructorSR]

Thanks for the posts lollermittens, I think I'm going to try out your 33/5/3.

[Babaghanoosh]

 

 

 

My mistake, I forgot to include BA in my rotation. Charge (3 Rage) -> Deadly Saber (1 Rage) -> Rupture (2 Rage; but you get refunded 1 Rage if spec'd into the ability, so essentially 1 Rage) -> BA -> etc.

 

You cannot apply Charge -> Deadly Saber -> Rupture without Enraged Charge. Otherwise you'd have to sneak in an Assault in there or use BA right after Charge instead of Rupture which applies an essential 50% slow now.

 

And I think that applying a slow on your target is the most important factor as most classes (besides Marauders/Juggs/Assassins) are going to be kiting you as soon as you Charge or start attacking them. Since most classes have a 15% increased run speed ability, any time spent chasing an opponent like a decapitated goose is a loss of DPS for a class (and build if we're still talking about Anni) that is 100% reliant in dishing out single target damage.

 

Even with enraged charge you still can't charge -> DS -> rupture, as you are one rage short when you land. At 0 rage you have to charge -> rupture -> BA -> DS with or without the talent.

 

Enraged charge is effectively 1 rage every 12 seconds for 2 talent points. Weigh this against empowerment which can RNG you 1 rage every 1.5 seconds while you are in combat and will (at worst) give you 1 rage / ~5s.

 

Also, there is (iirc) no talent to give you 1 rage back on rupture.

 

EDIT: the one benefit I can see to enraged charge is it allows you to charge -> rupture -> BA -> DS -> Annihilate. Without it you have to rely on empowerment to proc or use an assault before Annihilate. This of course only applies when you are starting at 0 rage.

 

I personally prefer empowerment, as I don't mind weaving in an assault before annihilate if empowerment doesn't happen to proc... it will build a stack of deadly saber anyway and it means more burst if your annihilate is landing with a 2x deadly saber hit instead of 1.

 

EDIT2: PS, this is the build I'll be trying first: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::e8fe5fe3f2efef7ef12df12

Edited April 12, 2012 by Babaghanoosh

[gizbug]

Even with enraged charge you still can't charge -> DS -> rupture, as you are one rage short when you land. At 0 rage you have to charge -> rupture -> BA -> DS with or without the talent.

 

Enraged charge is effectively 1 rage every 12 seconds for 2 talent points. Weigh this against empowerment which can RNG you 1 rage every 1.5 seconds while you are in combat and will (at worst) give you 1 rage / ~5s.

 

Also, there is (iirc) no talent to give you 1 rage back on rupture.

 

EDIT: the one benefit I can see to enraged charge is it allows you to charge -> rupture -> BA -> DS -> Annihilate. Without it you have to rely on empowerment to proc or use an assault before Annihilate. This of course only applies when you are starting at 0 rage.

 

I personally prefer empowerment, as I don't mind weaving in an assault before annihilate if empowerment doesn't happen to proc... it will build a stack of deadly saber anyway and it means more burst if your annihilate is landing with a 2x deadly saber hit instead of 1.

 

EDIT2: PS, this is the build I'll be trying first: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::e8fe5fe3f2efef7ef12df12

 

Build looks promising . Let us know how it works out

[Seregul]

How valuable is that second point in Close Quarters?

[VictorLototskyy]

I never understood why people not getting -30% AOE from Carnage for any tree and PVP/PVE. Replacing it with some few %for crits or any other crap. Edited April 12, 2012 by VictorLototskyy

[Babaghanoosh]

How valuable is that second point in Close Quarters?

 

I'd say it's personal preference, but when I use charge as an interrupt I prefer not to strafe out first... I'm lazy though =)

[Babaghanoosh]

I never understood why people not getting -30% AOE from Carnage for any tree and PVP/PVE. Replacing it with some few %for crits or any other crap.

 

Especially now that jugg/mara rage builds will be even more popular with 1.2.

[VictorLototskyy]

Especially now that jugg/mara rage builds will be even more popular with 1.2.

 

Yes, but for me it's so obvious that -30% AOE damage is a huge boost to survivability at PVP/PVE and I got it since release no matter what tree I played. How can you people don't take it and take 4% crit for force attacks or any other tier 1-2 stuff.

[Seregul]

I'd say it's personal preference, but when I use charge as an interrupt I prefer not to strafe out first... I'm lazy though =)

 

I asked the question, then thought of the answer 5 minutes later. Duh. Thank you for the response.

[tehrad]

I'd like to get some discussion around builds for Annihlation in 1.2 as well, mainly with regards to what I consider some extra points that are left over.

 

I whipped this up very quickly: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/sith_warrior/marauder/#::edefe4fe3de5f2efef7ef15ef9:

 

but was contemplating what to do with the last 3 points? Better to take them out of Malice and go 2/2 seeping wound and 2/2 Subjugation?

[Mazarill]

Im gonna try this http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#7fe8e8elc-2i-i

 

Yea I put points into phantom lol I think 2 second longer and 20% more speed is helpful if your running solo

Edited April 13, 2012 by Mazarill

[bklynfinest]

Been messing around with 2/2 in new Phantom and I gotta say it is an amazing gap closer

[Grimnoire]

Here is what I'm thinking right now: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#9f28e8clc-22i-8

 

I value the shorter interrupt more than the gap close ability in phantom, but thats the only thing I would consider moving in the Annihilation tree.

 

I've taken 2 points out of Malice and put them into Ravager until Ravage gets nefed.

 

I agree that the 30% AOE damage reduction is a must have, especially in PVE.

[iknoghostmagic]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRMRMfsZhMMZh.1

 

I myself personally don't find the new phantom that useful so i chose not to spec it and enraged charge is pretty pointless 2 talent points for 1 rage gain on charge ?

Edited April 13, 2012 by iknoghostmagic

[Giladd]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#9f18e8elc-22i-2

 

imo for pvp.

 

Ravage is a pretty awesome ability for anni now, it will eclipse your Annihilate damage w/o the annihilator buffs. At least for PvE. In PvP it's an awesome burst ability that you should be able to fit into a rotation pretty easily.

 

Enraged Charge is awesome post-patch like it was pre-patch (didn't spec into it pre-patch, but concept still applies).

Charge (4 rage)

DS (1 Rage)

BA (7 Rage)

Rupture (5 Rage)

Annihilate (1 Rage)

 

It allows you to get that combo off w/o having to rely on a 30% chance for a bleed to proc a rage for you and not having to assault.

 

As for the phantom change... it was a good gap closer beforehand, it still is now. I have yet to try it, so I could be wrong, but it does not come across as being good enough to spend 2 points in now compared to what else you could spend it in.

 

I think this is the right thread for this, but not 100% positive, so if it's replying to someone in a different thread, my apologies.

 

But to the person who asked about Anni v Carnage in PvE now...

Annihilation beats Carnage in 1, possibly 2 fights:

Bonethrasher anni wins because anni is able to stay on the target the entire duration. Anni loses to Carnage w/o the annihilator buffs. Carnage's burst on demand is amazing for most raid encounters and really shines over anni now imo.

 

Other possible fight would be:

Jarg + Sorno if you leap to Sorno when he goes into phase 3, it'll probably outshine carnage for that fight.

 

Oh, and putting points in Malice is a complete waste of points as an anni marauder. Anni bleeds aren't considered a force ability.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Giladd

[bklynfinest]

I disagree on the negative view re: 2/2 phantom post-patch for PvP. I suggest folks at least try it first before you knock it. 2 secs + speed buff suits certain playstyles very well.

[CrazyAl]

Right. And a mechanic that generates 1 Rage based on a low-RNG with a .3 coefficient which is also limited by a 1.5 second activation timer (essentially every GCD) is not optimal in any way for PvP since you're looking at fights which last a short amount of time and where burst is optimal -- especially with the changes to Expertise in 1.2, that's exactly what BW is shooting for.

 

Again, Empowerment was proven to be a mildly useful PvE ability since it "shines" over prolonged period of time (see http://www.sithwarrior.com for more details.). I see absolutely no point in using it for PvP especially when we have the possiblity to use those extra two points for a talent that gives us an extra 2 second of invisibility which is going to be crucial to escape fights, reset fights, and destabilize your enemy's rotation.

 

regardless of how "optimal" it is, empowerment still generates more rage per second on average than enraged charge ever will, even on a short duration fight

 

if you can put up a rupture and a DS you will average at least 2 rage back (and potentially 5-6 depending on the timing of your DS stacks), enraged charge will give you 1, period

 

and, you dont have to choose between empowerment and phantom ... get both

 

 

 

My mistake, I forgot to include BA in my rotation. Charge (3 Rage) -> Deadly Saber (1 Rage) -> Rupture (2 Rage; but you get refunded 1 Rage if spec'd into the ability, so essentially 1 Rage) -> BA -> etc.

 

You cannot apply Charge -> Deadly Saber -> Rupture without Enraged Charge. Otherwise you'd have to sneak in an Assault in there or use BA right after Charge instead of Rupture which applies an essential 50% slow now.

 

And I think that applying a slow on your target is the most important factor as most classes (besides Marauders/Juggs/Assassins) are going to be kiting you as soon as you Charge or start attacking them. Since most classes have a 15% increased run speed ability, any time spent chasing an opponent like a decapitated goose is a loss of DPS for a class (and build if we're still talking about Anni) that is 100% reliant in dishing out single target damage.

 

even with enraged charge you cant charge > DS > rupture, you just dont have enough rage for that

 

you can charge > DS or rupture > BA > DS or rupture

 

but you can do that w/o enraged charge

 

 

in terms of extra rage generation enraged charge is the weakest talent of that kind, waste of points

 

in terms of extra rage for openers, it doesnt give you enough extra do DS and rupture w/o building more with assault or BA, so ... waste of points

[Snakke]

For pve this is the best single target dps spec you can put together. You can however change the 2 points in phantom to somewhere else, although two of the places you can put the points are worthless for pve boss fights.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrorfsZhMZG.1

Edited April 13, 2012 by Snakke

[SmearBlood]

But to the person who asked about Anni v Carnage in PvE now...

Annihilation beats Carnage in 1, possibly 2 fights:

Bonethrasher anni wins because anni is able to stay on the target the entire duration. Anni loses to Carnage w/o the annihilator buffs. Carnage's burst on demand is amazing for most raid encounters and really shines over anni now imo.

 

Other possible fight would be:

Jarg + Sorno if you leap to Sorno when he goes into phase 3, it'll probably outshine carnage for that fight.

 

Oh, and putting points in Malice is a complete waste of points as an anni marauder. Anni bleeds aren't considered a force ability.

 

 

Hey Gilly,

 

Two questions about this;

 

Pre 1.2 I always had points in malice since over at sithwarrior they had talked about how DoTs are Internal Damage, based on Force Power and utilize Force Crit so it seems logical to infer that our bleeds would benefit from malice. (source:http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Compendium?page=17) Has this changed since 1.2 or has it been proven that they do not in fact benefit from malice? And if it does not benefit us where you suggest these extra points be placed for anni?

 

Also I am very curious to try out carnage now post 1.2, I have never tried it before in the past though and would like to compare its dps numbers with my current anni numbers. What build would you suggest for carnage?

 

The current spec I use (Assuming malice was worthwhile);

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#9f26e8elc-i-200k

 

Feedback is welcome!

Thanks

Edited April 13, 2012 by SmearBlood

[Dustranamus]

PVE

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMfsZhZG00M.1

 

best damage overall for endgame IMO

[kleinstiver]

The current spec I use (Assuming malice was worthwhile);

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#9f26e8elc-i-200k

 

I too use this spec, as I have entirely too much Accuracy, and not enough access to better Enhancements of the Rakata ilvl. I like the points in brutality, even though I don't use Vicious Slash outside of low HP adds, makes direct damage hit a bit harder when I need it. The points in Ravager are necessary now with Ravage being a gap filler in our rotation.

 

My question is - Why are all these Marauders taking Narrowed Hatred for Accuracy? Did you all replace the Accuracy in your gear and aren't hit capped? Is the soft cap suddenly higher than 108% Force? I have 3 pieces of Rakata and am over hit cap, and am attempting to replace the Enhancements when I can find a 25 Battle Enh. (inb4 lol scrub gear)

[Snakke]

PVE

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMfsZhZG00M.1

 

best damage overall for endgame IMO

 

hmm didn't even notice brutality =p might try it

[Spiderbubble]

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/marauder#9fe8e8elc-12i-0

 

This is what I'm currently using. It's primarily meant for PvP, but obviously it works fine in PvE as well (particularly at bosses that are interruptable like Sorno)