Just because your sith doesn't actually mean you are evil right?

[Xanerithe]

I was on the ptr and I was doing the Jedi zone and this time around I was actually paying attention to what a lot of the jedi masters tell you, there is no emotion there is only peace and so on and so forth. I completely disagree. In fact the more I thought about it the more the sith code makes more sense, then I got to thinking does that really you'd be evil? I have a Sith Warrior with a heart of gold, and only resulted to violence when forced upon.

 

It just got me wondering, can there really be a good sith? All I know is if this was real (I know that sounds silly) I couldn't stand being a Jedi, no emotion..sounds dull and boring, I would follow my emotions and use my rage to defeat those who would harm those I care about.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Xanerithe

[Rayla_Felana]

Being Sith does not mean being evil, using the Dark Side for selfish gain at the expense of others is.

[Xanerithe]

Being Sith does not mean being evil, using the Dark Side for selfish gain at the expense of others is.

 

I know this part, it just seems that when the sith portrayed as being evil and evil only.

[AlienEyeTX]

Sith are selfish. Since they employ any means necessary to meet their selfish ends, they will end up doing things that some people consider to be evil. It doesn't mean they are all evil all the time... but they're still going to be at least quasi-evil.

[Guildrum]

I know this part, it just seems that when the sith portrayed as being evil and evil only.

 

Evil Sith are just plain the norm, because the dark side corrupts. They are not the only Sith, just the norm.

[Captain_Zone]

If you play the game enough, you will see some Sith that are definitely NOT evil. There are also plenty of Imperial characters that aren't evil either. My list of "good" Sith include Darth Vowrawn, Lord Praven, Scourge (to an extent), just to name the ones off the top of my head. There is a much longer list of Sith who aren't completely evil or of a more neutral mind set.

[AngelousWang]

Short:

 

Sith could be good, but it's too difficult/hard to be good being the Sith, so they aren't good, Sith are Evil.

 

Long:

 

True Evil = Complete Selfishness and total lack of love/mercy/guilt/compassion.

 

The Sith code/way promotes, Complete Selfishness and that love/mercy/compassion are weakness. It also promotes might make right, which removes guilt.

 

So if a Sith was to follow the code and the Sith way to the letter they would be evil.

 

"A Perfect Sith" by code standards would be evil.

 

It would be very difficult for a Sith to be completely good. Though there is enough wiggle room to be as good you like, provided you are strong enough.

 

Absolutely every Sith that has ever been has done evil, even if they were not evil overall. Just because it's so impossible to escape, fighting to the death, torture, thievery, betrayal and murder are everyday things Sith have to deal with just to survive. - Even the Purest Lightside SW/SI both do evil tons of times in their stories (outside moral choices), just because it unavoidable in the situation they are in.

 

Of course good and evil is relative thing. It's best to look at Sith from a more Animal behavior perspective rather than a Human perspective. Take Lions for example, males kill each other for females and territory, they kill and even eat cubs of other males to ensure their line is dominate. This is clearly evil behavior by human standards, but as we view them from Animal behavior we never think of them as evil.

 

This the same way you should look at Sith,

 

Now you might ague they aren't evil because they have a lower intelligence than us and therefore cannot understand good and evil. But nether can Sith, not in the way we do, to Sith Good is wright and Evil is wrong, therefore everything they do is good because everything they do is wright, whilst their enemies are Evil because whatever they did (are doing) to make them your enemy is wrong.

[Captain_Zone]

Short:

 

Sith could be good, but it's too difficult/hard to be good being the Sith, so they aren't good, Sith are Evil.

 

Long:

 

True Evil = Complete Selfishness and total lack of love/mercy/guilt/compassion.

 

The Sith code/way promotes, Complete Selfishness and that love/mercy/compassion are weakness. It also promotes might make right, which removes guilt.

 

So if a Sith was to follow the code and the Sith way to the letter they would be evil.

 

"A Perfect Sith" by code standards would be evil.

 

It would be very difficult for a Sith to be completely good. Though there is enough wiggle room to be as good you like, provided you are strong enough.

 

Absolutely every Sith that has ever been has done evil, even if they were not evil overall. Just because it's so impossible to escape, fighting to the death, torture, thievery, betrayal and murder are everyday things Sith have to deal with just to survive. - Even the Purest Lightside SW/SI both do evil tons of times in their stories (outside moral choices), just because it unavoidable in the situation they are in.

 

Of course good and evil is relative thing. It's best to look at Sith from a more Animal behavior perspective rather than a Human perspective. Take Lions for example, males kill each other for females and territory, they kill and even eat cubs of other males to ensure their line is dominate. This is clearly evil behavior by human standards, but as we view them from Animal behavior we never think of them as evil.

 

This the same way you should look at Sith,

 

Now you might ague they aren't evil because they have a lower intelligence than us and therefore cannot understand good and evil. But nether can Sith, not in the way we do, to Sith Good is wright and Evil is wrong, therefore everything they do is good because everything they do is wright, whilst their enemies are Evil because whatever they did (are doing) to make them your enemy is wrong.

 

Would you like a deconstruction of the Sith Code to show you how it isn't evil? I've already done it. The Code itself isn't evil. The only evil about it is how it's interpreted by the majority of Sith.

 

Also, if you look at the history between the Sith and Jedi, the Jedi are as bent on destroying the Sith as the Sith are on destroying the Jedi. The Jedi are NOT the white knights they claim to be when it comes to the Sith. Only ONE Jedi during my LS SW playthrough was actually cool enough that he didn't even think about attacking me first. In fact, after he aided me with the final boss on the planet we were on, we parted as friends.

 

My point is EVERY other Jedi either attacked no matter what I said, or they were seriously thinking about it. Yes, I'm convinced the Jedi are an Order of about 95% hypocrites.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus

Oh, and as far as ALL Sith doing evil..... Here's one who didn't.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[TKMaster]

Are all sith evil? No, just the successfull ones.

[Darth_Solrac]

I was on the ptr and I was doing the Jedi zone and this time around I was actually paying attention to what a lot of the jedi masters tell you, there is no emotion there is only peace and so on and so forth. I completely disagree. In fact the more I thought about it the more the sith code makes more sense, then I got to thinking does that really you'd be evil? I have a Sith Warrior with a heart of gold, and only resulted to violence when forced upon.

 

It just got me wondering, can there really be a good sith? All I know is if this was real (I know that sounds silly) I couldn't stand being a Jedi, no emotion..sounds dull and boring, I would follow my emotions and use my rage to defeat those who would harm those I care about.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Light side Sith say yes. Even in Sith immersed in the Dark Side, there can still be good in them, ergo Darth Vader.

[Tsukae]

Short:

 

Sith could be good, but it's too difficult/hard to be good being the Sith, so they aren't good, Sith are Evil.

 

Long:

 

True Evil = Complete Selfishness and total lack of love/mercy/guilt/compassion.

 

The Sith code/way promotes, Complete Selfishness and that love/mercy/compassion are weakness. It also promotes might make right, which removes guilt.

 

So if a Sith was to follow the code and the Sith way to the letter they would be evil.

 

"A Perfect Sith" by code standards would be evil.

 

It would be very difficult for a Sith to be completely good. Though there is enough wiggle room to be as good you like, provided you are strong enough.

 

Absolutely every Sith that has ever been has done evil, even if they were not evil overall. Just because it's so impossible to escape, fighting to the death, torture, thievery, betrayal and murder are everyday things Sith have to deal with just to survive. - Even the Purest Lightside SW/SI both do evil tons of times in their stories (outside moral choices), just because it unavoidable in the situation they are in.

 

Of course good and evil is relative thing. It's best to look at Sith from a more Animal behavior perspective rather than a Human perspective. Take Lions for example, males kill each other for females and territory, they kill and even eat cubs of other males to ensure their line is dominate. This is clearly evil behavior by human standards, but as we view them from Animal behavior we never think of them as evil.

 

This the same way you should look at Sith,

 

Now you might ague they aren't evil because they have a lower intelligence than us and therefore cannot understand good and evil. But nether can Sith, not in the way we do, to Sith Good is wright and Evil is wrong, therefore everything they do is good because everything they do is wright, whilst their enemies are Evil because whatever they did (are doing) to make them your enemy is wrong.

Humans are animals and various animal species act in mutual aid to an extreme degree, including humans(especially prior to the agricultural revolution).

 

Aside from that part I totally agree with you. Sith are generally forced into a position where they must do some evil things or be destroyed, but that does not necessarily make all of them evil. I think it is fair, however, to characterize Sith as being evil in general(at least in the popular perception of what evil is).

 

Light side Sith say yes. Even in Sith immersed in the Dark Side, there can still be good in them, ergo Darth Vader.

This.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Tsukae

[OldVengeance]

Just because the Sith Code isn't inherently evil, doesn't mean the Sith Order itself isn't. Because it is evil. There's more to Sith teaching that those 5 lines. Virtually every Sith ever was evil, that's how they've always been portrayed. Some more than others of course, but the overwhelming trend is that they are evil.

 

But even if it isn't evil, one could argue that it's dangerous. The first line is "Peace is a lie. There is only passion." That kind of encourages constant conflict by saying that peace is impossible.

[Darth_Solrac]

Just because the Sith Code isn't inherently evil, doesn't mean the Sith Order itself isn't. Because it is evil. There's more to Sith teaching that those 5 lines. Virtually every Sith ever was evil, that's how they've always been portrayed. Some more than others of course, but the overwhelming trend is that they are evil.

 

But even if it isn't evil, one could argue that it's dangerous. The first line is "Peace is a lie. There is only passion." That kind of encourages constant conflict by saying that peace is impossible.

 

That's cuz peace IS impossible. As the SW timeline proves. You'd do better not to generalize so.

[Tarbacca]

Should be. Makes me gag deep down inside when I see a Light Side sith character. Sith Inquisitor is understandable since you're a former slave, but Sith Warrior comes from a strong Sith bloodline.

[armphid]

That's cuz peace IS impossible. As the SW timeline proves. You'd do better not to generalize so.

 

When refuting someone's comments as being a generalization, perhaps you'd do better not to use an even broader generalization. Particularly using a fictional history that has been purposefully made as conflict filled as possible in order to create more stories as your basis.

 

As far as the question of good Sith, there can be Sith with good in them and who try to be as good as they can be. The Vader example is a good one of a Sith who's done monstrous evil but still has some good in him.

 

But any Sith is going to be at least a little evil by the nature of the organization they belong to, at least in TOR. You can't be part of an inherently racist and viciously class stratified slaving empire and not bear some stain. But there's always a place for people in that situation trying to be good, trying to make changes, and turn themselves and others into better, stronger people. It makes for a great story.

[EnsignSorrow]

My point is EVERY other Jedi either attacked no matter what I said, or they were seriously thinking about it. Yes, I'm convinced the Jedi are an Order of about 95% hypocrites.

 

Even Jedi can make mistakes. Also, the Sith are the natural enemies of the Jedi. The Jedi must sometimes take the first move in order to survive. Also, the Jedi order is not in good shape, we have been in all out war against the Sith for a while, and our sacred temples on Illum, and Coruscant have been destroyed. There is a kind of "get stuff done, and ask questions later" mentality going on, even in the high council.

 

Alas, a true Jedi would ask their combatant to surrender, and if they do not, a battle will ensue. This is perfectly legit within the Jedi code. Sorry, but the Sith can never be trusted, and must be taken out on all levels.

 

I could go on and list all of the reasons for that (including genocide), though it would be a wall of text.

Edited April 11, 2012 by EnsignSorrow

[Ayble]

I do not think so.. If a good Sith did manage to survive Korriban, and anyone playing this game's beginning planets on Sith side can see what happens to the less then brutal acolytes. Any Sith that would catch you showing any kind of Mercy or "light" side quality would surely do his best to end you. The amounts of paranoia mixed with the effects of using the Dark side of the force would eventually overcome most of your kinder tendancies. Dark Side Jaesa is the perfect example of how a Sith would view a lightside Sith.. Hunt you down and Kill you, plain and simple. Now these are just in game instances of why I dont think a Sith would survive long being non evil, however there ARE always exceptions such as the revenites, however they operate outside the Sith empire as well (And as a note are also constantly being hunted).

[Toonimator]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus

Oh, and as far as ALL Sith doing evil..... Here's one who didn't.

Info on Vectivus is suspect, as it all came from Lumiya. Even the 'spirit' of Vectivus could've been a manipulated illusion.

 

It's unfortunate, because I kinda liked the idea of a benevolent Sith who wasn't all twisted & evil in general; I haven't read the Plagueis book yet, but from Palpatine's description of him as "Plagueis the Wise" and how he could stop loved ones from dying in ROTS, I liked the idea that maybe Plagueis was more interested in knowledge and protecting those around him than in conquering the galaxy, and that's why Sidious killed him to get the Banite plan back on track.

 

I haven't even flown to Dromund Kaas yet, but I'm looking forward to taking my lowbie LS Sith Warrior through the storyline, and meeting up with that one Jedi who'll help you and leave you as a friend.

[Lightkillr]

As long as I get to test myself against a worthy opponent and maybe get paid while doing it, who cares about good and evil?

[Darth_Solrac]

When refuting someone's comments as being a generalization, perhaps you'd do better not to use an even broader generalization. Particularly using a fictional history that has been purposefully made as conflict filled as possible in order to create more stories as your basis.

 

Oh yes....I do so indeed apologize for using the STAR WARS timeline to make a point bout STAR WARS, as relative to STAR WARS.

 

What other timeline do you suggest I use? Star Trek? Spaceballs?

[MGriffith]

My point is EVERY other Jedi either attacked no matter what I said, or they were seriously thinking about it. Yes, I'm convinced the Jedi are an Order of about 95% hypocrites.

 

And if you play through the story as either of the jedi classes then you will find many situations where you try to reason with a Sith only to have him/her foam at the mouth about Sith superiority, and every option ending with him/her attacking you.

So I guess that 95pct of the Sith are raging psychopaths?

 

Or maybe this is an artifact of the storytelling. Each class is the hero of their own story. That means their opponents must be the villains.

...

Because very few people actually are able to or enjoy playing a raging psychopath (or cold calculating sociapath at the mildest). Hence the many lightside sith.

It means that the Jedi must be the unforgiving automatic enemies of the Sith, so as to provide the opposition the game needs.

Things could be different if advancing did not require commiting genocide on a galactic scale, but like all combat oriented games it does, and thus in the Sith story the Jedi must attack on sight, or nearly so. And why in the Jedi story the Sith are raging lunatics who can not be reasoned with.

[Jenzali]

Should be. Makes me gag deep down inside when I see a Light Side sith character. Sith Inquisitor is understandable since you're a former slave, but Sith Warrior comes from a strong Sith bloodline.

 

I was just about to say the same about DS Sith. LS choices are generally along the lines of torturing your enemies, squeezing the information out of them, converting people to your cause, and occasionally doing things that are good for the Empire. In other words, what Darth Malgus would do.

 

DS choices usually just amount to "hurr kill them now" or "kill innocent person for no reason when in fact they'd be of more use to you alive". The most commonly known example of this is the General at the end of the Black Talon FP.

 

In most in-game situations, following the Sith code closely would bring you to Light I - Light III area. My sith characters are cold, calculating, and pure evil. They selfishly choose the decisions that benefit me and give me more power. Meaning they usually end up Light I - III area.

 

I do not think so.. If a good Sith did manage to survive Korriban, and anyone playing this game's beginning planets on Sith side can see what happens to the less then brutal acolytes. Any Sith that would catch you showing any kind of Mercy or "light" side quality would surely do his best to end you.

 

And yet choosing mostly LS options gives you compliments from the overseers and inquisitors. They see the value of many of your choices, and mercy is just one more method of gaining power. For example,

 

 

Not killing Overseer Tremel and taking his hand instead, then lying to Darth Baras gives you another ally. The same overseer also compliments you as doing what a true Sith would do when choosing a LS option in regards to one of the 3 prisoners, where you choose the republic defector to instead become an agent of the empire instead of killing her.

 

Edited April 11, 2012 by Jenzali

[TKMaster]

That's cuz peace IS impossible. As the SW timeline proves. You'd do better not to generalize so.

 

Ironically it is impossble...mostly due to the Sith.

[psandak]

I paraphrase Jessica Rabbit (Who Framed Roger Rabbit)- "I'm not evil, I'm just written that way."

 

nuff said

[Captain_Zone]

Info on Vectivus is suspect, as it all came from Lumiya. Even the 'spirit' of Vectivus could've been a manipulated illusion.

 

It's unfortunate, because I kinda liked the idea of a benevolent Sith who wasn't all twisted & evil in general; I haven't read the Plagueis book yet, but from Palpatine's description of him as "Plagueis the Wise" and how he could stop loved ones from dying in ROTS, I liked the idea that maybe Plagueis was more interested in knowledge and protecting those around him than in conquering the galaxy, and that's why Sidious killed him to get the Banite plan back on track.

 

I haven't even flown to Dromund Kaas yet, but I'm looking forward to taking my lowbie LS Sith Warrior through the storyline, and meeting up with that one Jedi who'll help you and leave you as a friend.

 

Actually, not all the info on him came from Lumiya. Some was imparted by his Force ghost to Nelani Dinn. He was also tethered to someone of pure evil, and wanted to be free. He even begged her to do what was necessary and strike him down. Lumiya had bound him to her already.