Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I think it says more about you, that you pointed it out, than about me who suffered through watching half of it to see if there was a point to it. So, the question is answered ... but it wasn't the question you were asking. I know where you fit in 8)- You are just the perfect specimen. In case people wonder why even after years of MMO playing some people are still bad at PVP, you and the original poster would make a lovely case study. Edited April 10, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Just curious ... what can I learn from getting killed while stunned for 75% of the fight? That one move I can use to delay the inevitible? Stun the operative and call for help? How about, stun and choke them? That gives me 5 extra seconds to call for help. At this point, I have around 3-5k health and the oprative has 12-15k. Anyway, like I said before, a few times, it doesn't always happen that way. It's not about the good players versus bad players. It's about the mechanics of the class that allows them to slaughter someone before they have a chance to fight back. A good operative has their bases covered. So, stunning, choking, pushing, et al only delays the inevitible ... by a very short time. I understand that there are classes better suited to fighting certain classes and I'm fine with that ... it's why I have three different toons at battlemaster level. The thing is, all three will get owned by one class and one class only - operative. But, it's not all operatives. It's the operatives that use the classes mechanics to its potential, which is a bit out of line and needs a slight adjustment. But then, I do feel bad for the operatives that don't know how to use the class's potential. They'll be really bad off.See, now we're getting somewhere... kind of... other than your snarky attitude. You could have inferred from a few of my own, and Redmarx's post though what your problem is, too bad you missed it. The problem is you are doing too much 1v1ing and not enough team play. If you do a lot of 1v1ing, yes, you will get owned, repeatedly, by Operatives. An Operative sees someone 1v1ing and sees an easy target. Solution: Stop 1v1ing. The game isn't balanced for 1v1s, nor should it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 By the way, Redmarx, I'll be willing to bet you're one of those "bad" operatives that can't kill someone from stealth burst. Which is why you're so upset about the upcoming nerfs. A good operative or scoundrel would just roll with the idea. I have a scoundrel and I'm not sweating the nerfs a bit. I'm not saying I'm good on the toon, but I am saying I'm not concerned with nerfing a class that needs a nerf when I, at least, recognize the potential of that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) The problem is you are doing too much 1v1ing and not enough team play. The game isn't balanced for 1v1s, nor should it be. I would be angry at you for letting the cat out of the bag, but the inability of bad PVPers like Vudu and the OP to grasp the above is exactly the reason why they remain bad, so no harm done. Edited April 10, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 See, now we're getting somewhere... kind of... other than your snarky attitude. You could have inferred from a few of my own, and Redmarx's post though what your problem is, too bad you missed it. The problem is you are doing too much 1v1ing and not enough team play. If you do a lot of 1v1ing, yes, you will get owned, repeatedly, by Operatives. An Operative sees someone 1v1ing and sees an easy target. Solution: Stop 1v1ing. The game isn't balanced for 1v1s, nor should it be. While you are correct that 1v1 should not be a gauge for the game you still have to understand that 1v1s (almost strictly in Alderaan) happen quite frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Unless you have stun breaker up it is very possible to be chain stunned and killed by an OP while you can do nothing. If stun breaker is up I can usually get out of it, but if it is not I am dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I have a scoundrel and I'm not sweating the nerfs a bit. On every toon I play, shadow, gunslinger or guardian, ? /cha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 as someone who play scoundrel ill give you guys a tip if i pwn you the 1st time easily, i will not hesitate to do it again should the opportunity arise. running back to me solo and expecting different results once all my cooldowns are back up is a bit of a stretch and certainly not a legit call for even more nerfs. Bring a pocket ninja back with you to unload on me once i pop out of stealth, it just might work better than your running back to the place you just died solo trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I play a marauder. Operatives do not scare me at all 1v1, on a marauder even the best ones are fairly easy to beat. Tank assassins are another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 See, now we're getting somewhere... kind of... other than your snarky attitude. You could have inferred from a few of my own, and Redmarx's post though what your problem is, too bad you missed it. The problem is you are doing too much 1v1ing and not enough team play. If you do a lot of 1v1ing, yes, you will get owned, repeatedly, by Operatives. An Operative sees someone 1v1ing and sees an easy target. Solution: Stop 1v1ing. The game isn't balanced for 1v1s, nor should it be. But, hulkweazel, there are times, and we both know this, that solo guarding is necessary. Still, that is beside the point. The point I've been trying to make is that operatives have the potential to wreck (kill) a player without the player having a chance to fight back. When the best and only advice is "never fight a player who picks their fights on their terms, one on one" I kind get the feeling that you agree with me that operative mechaincs are a bit out of line - you just don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 ? /cha The scoundrel isn't battlemaster. It's hard to compare classes when they aren't at fullest potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoop Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Unless you have stun breaker up it is very possible to be chain stunned and killed by an OP while you can do nothing. If stun breaker is up I can usually get out of it, but if it is not I am dead. knockbacks say hi keep the op at 4m or better and melt thier face off, EZ whatever you do DON"T TURN YOUR BACK on them or you will be dirtnap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 But, hulkweazel, there are times, and we both know this, that solo guarding is necessary. Still, that is beside the point. The point I've been trying to make is that operatives have the potential to wreck (kill) a player without the player having a chance to fight back. When the best and only advice is "never fight a player who picks their fights on their terms, one on one" I kind get the feeling that you agree with me that operative mechaincs are a bit out of line - you just don't realize it. The players who "don't have a chance to fight back" are terribad. Operatives have one stun on opener, which you eat, and a 2nd stun that you break. Once out of stealth they do low damage, are beatifully squishy, and pulling them out of a vanish is easy so they can't escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 By the way, Redmarx, I'll be willing to bet you're one of those "bad" operatives that can't kill someone from stealth burst. Which is why you're so upset about the upcoming nerfs. A good operative or scoundrel would just roll with the idea. I have a scoundrel and I'm not sweating the nerfs a bit. I'm not saying I'm good on the toon, but I am saying I'm not concerned with nerfing a class that needs a nerf when I, at least, recognize the potential of that class.LOL. You do not play a Scoundrel. Having a level 12 scoundrel sitting in rest EXP does not count. If you did play one, you will realize the myth of the so-called "bad" operative that can't kill someone in one stunlock. The rotation is so easy that anyone can do it. The good ones just find easy prey. Such as you.I would be angry at you for letting the cat out of the bag, but the inability of bad PVPers like Vudu and the OP to grasp the above is exactly the reason why they remain bad, so no harm done.I apologize. But the more people who know the "secret" the less people will cry for nerfs. And maybe BW will stop nerfing us. While you are correct that 1v1 should not be a gauge for the game you still have to understand that 1v1s (almost strictly in Alderaan) happen quite frequently.So what... Ops have a slight advantage in one WZ. That kind of makes up for the fact that they are at a severe disadvantage in another WZ. Even still, solo-defending a node does not necessarily mean you will be doing 1v1s. It just means you will be holding a node until reinforcements arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I play a marauder. Operatives do not scare me at all 1v1, on a marauder even the best ones are fairly easy to beat. Tank assassins are another story. TBH it sounds to me like you must have not faced skilled OPs. I am not denying that you may indeed be a good Mara but I can say the same for myself on my Sent. When played right an Operative, while being a good fight, will usually win 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) TBH it sounds to me like you must have not faced skilled OPs. I am not denying that you may indeed be a good Mara but I can say the same for myself on my Sent. When played right an Operative, while being a good fight, will usually win 1v1. It's not like there have been 1v1 duel tournaments with all the best 1v1 PVPers on multiple servers. All of which were dominated in order by tank assassins, anni marauders and PT powertechs, operatives coming in at #4. Oh wait. Edited April 10, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 But, hulkweazel, there are times, and we both know this, that solo guarding is necessary. Still, that is beside the point. The point I've been trying to make is that operatives have the potential to wreck (kill) a player without the player having a chance to fight back. When the best and only advice is "never fight a player who picks their fights on their terms, one on one" I kind get the feeling that you agree with me that operative mechaincs are a bit out of line - you just don't realize it. I agree that Operatives are poorly designed. I do not agree that they are overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 The players who "don't have a chance to fight back" are terribad. Operatives have one stun on opener, which you eat, and a 2nd stun that you break. Once out of stealth they do low damage, are beatifully squishy, and pulling them out of a vanish is easy so they can't escape. I don't have a marauder, so I can't say how I'd fare against them as a marauder. I do best against them on the gunslinger - even the best ops on our server. Even then, there are times when I don't get a chance to fight back. What point is it that you all are missing? If you can fight back, you have a chance. If you can't fight back, you don't have a chance. And you believe that when a player doesn't get a chance to fight back, it's because they are bad, not due to the mechanics of the attacker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) It's not like there have been 1v1 duel tournaments with all the best 1v1 PVPers on multiple servers. All of which were dominated in order by tank assassins, anni marauders and PT powertechs, operatives coming in at #4. Oh wait. Dueling? Seriously? So, you know someone is going to attack and you prepare for that attack? Yeah, that's exactly how it works in warzones. Edited April 10, 2012 by Vudu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) I don't have a marauder, so I can't say how I'd fare against them as a marauder. I do best against them on the gunslinger - even the best ops on our server. Even then, there are times when I don't get a chance to fight back. What point is it that you all are missing? If you can fight back, you have a chance. If you can't fight back, you don't have a chance. And you believe that when a player doesn't get a chance to fight back, it's because they are bad, not due to the mechanics of the attacker? I tire of repeating myself. There is no such thing as stunlock - operative total stun time is 5secs max. There is no such thing as not having a chance to fight back. The fact that you even think this means you're bad at PVP. Edited April 10, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) It's not like there have been 1v1 duel tournaments with all the best 1v1 PVPers on multiple servers. All of which were dominated in order by tank assassins, anni marauders and PT powertechs, operatives coming in at #4. Oh wait. And the same goes for other servers where Operative came out in second or third. The term "top rated pvp server" is moot. Just becuause a server has more people on it doesn't mean it's a top PvP server (skill wise). Rated's will be able to tell is this for sure. Edited April 10, 2012 by JustinxDuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I tire of repeating myself. There is no such thing as not having a chance to fight back. The fact that you even think this means you're bad at PVP. You must have nothing but bad operatives/scoundrels on your server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableShadow Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) The scoundrel isn't battlemaster. It's hard to compare classes when they aren't at fullest potential. Then I don't understand how you're getting your face melted by OPs constantly. If you play the class, you know the counters ... same as me. You must have nothing but bad operatives/scoundrels on your server. /kobold "Really? Reeeeally?" Edited April 10, 2012 by SableShadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 You must have nothing but bad operatives/scoundrels on your server. We have excellent operatives and scoundrels. It doesn't matter how good they are, they cannot keep anybody stunned more than 5 secs (3gcds). And none of them can kill you in those 5 secs, or even the 5 following seconds, unless you're just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocala Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 roll an ops if you need a handicap for pvp...its an easy-to-win class. if you lack skill ...roll an ops...fact. i think we can all agree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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