Did rage Juggs get nerfed?

[Boomer-]

I looked at the patch notes but I only see buffs whereas people are saying rage specs got nerfed. Can someone clear this up?

[AllanGand]

the 30% smash bonus damage talent from vengeance went to the rage tree. It's not as much of a nerf since you can still get it, but it gives marauders an advantage.

 

Also force alacrity is gone, which means a longer cooldown on smash. I think that's pretty much it

[Noth]

the 30% smash bonus damage talent from vengeance went to the rage tree. It's not as much of a nerf since you can still get it, but it gives marauders an advantage.

 

Also force alacrity is gone, which means a longer cooldown on smash. I think that's pretty much it

 

that 30% talent is reduced to 20% as well.

[kronomandar]

30% smash buff moved from veng to rage and reduced to 20%

 

removal of force alacrity, making the cooldowns on our force attackes longer. longer cooldowns mean these abilities are fired less often.

 

the new self heal, if used, will eat your rage. less rage means your big hitting abilities wont be available as often if you use the self heal.

ie: the combo - crush > obliterate > smash > scream > vicious throw - probably wont get past obliterate if you have the self heal going.

[Goretzu]

I looked at the patch notes but I only see buffs whereas people are saying rage specs got nerfed. Can someone clear this up?

 

Read this. Rage Juggs have been nerfed, and the play style somewhat changed.

 

I guess how bad depends on the nerfs to other classes, but it's difficult to see how a Rage Jugg out competes a Rage Mara in anyway in a min/max sense post-1.2 (currently Mara has surviability and utility, but Jugg has a slightly bigger boom).

Edited April 8, 2012 by Goretzu

[Elyx]

Read this. Rage Juggs have been nerfed, and the play style somewhat changed.

 

FOR PVP. It seems you guys tend to miss that allot when your discussing the changes. It impacts a single aspect of the game to a certain degree.

 

to the OP: PvE for the most part actually got a mild buff. the changes impact PvP depending upon your playstyle.

 

to me most the dissapointment in general (a.k.a. not just PvP focused) comes from the idea that most were hoping for more then what we got. time will tell if its enough, but compared to how much many of the other classes were brought down, were in a pretty good place atm.

[wickedUOF]

Read this. Rage Juggs have been nerfed, and the play style somewhat changed.

 

I guess how bad depends on the nerfs to other classes, but it's difficult to see how a Rage Jugg out competes a Rage Mara in anyway in a min/max sense post-1.2 (currently Mara has surviability and utility, but Jugg has a slightly bigger boom).

 

I think the removal of Force Alacrity is pretty sad but the buff to Enrage and the new self heal I think are great

 

Juggs will still be viable but not on the level they once were, with no survivability to compensate that damage reduction.

Lets wait and see how the self heal works?

[kronomandar]

FOR PVP. It seems you guys tend to miss that allot when your discussing the changes. It impacts a single aspect of the game to a certain degree.

 

class balance, and the buffs/nerfs introduced to adjust that balance, are really only a pvp concern.

 

for pve it doesnt matter too much if your tank is OP or UP compared to other classes, as long as it can tank what it is required to tank.

likewise dps and healers. as long as they fullfill their role, they are fine. a healer in heavy armor with 100% resistances and the ability to hit like a truck is fine in pve where its role is healing, as long as its healing does the job.

 

even so, the changes made to jugs will be a nerf for rage spec not just in pvp but in pve aswell. or did you not read the bit about 10% LESS smash buff and longer cooldowns on force abilities.

alterations to a class that reduce that classes effectiveness are generaly classified as a NERF by most folks familiar with MMOs.

[Goretzu]

I think the removal of Force Alacrity is pretty sad but the buff to Enrage and the new self heal I think are great

 

Lets wait and see how the self heal works?

 

Personally I can't see how that outweighs a longer CD or the other nerfs.

 

As for the self-heal it seems far too rage intensive to really be of much use.

[Noth]

I think the removal of Force Alacrity is pretty sad but the buff to Enrage and the new self heal I think are great

 

 

Lets wait and see how the self heal works?

 

We know exactly how the self heal works. You spend 4 rage just to activate it. It dumps threat. For the next 10 seconds every time you are hit you get healed for 3% your max health with a 1 second internal cooldown. However, it also takes a rage each time you are healed. this makes it cost a total of 14 rage to get the full effect, and effect that simply mitigates some damage and consumes so much resource, chances you will still die because you can't kill what is killing you do to having very limited resources.

[AllanGand]

the self heal will only be useful when you are carrying the ball in huttball. And for a dps jug in pve if he pulls aggro off the tank (which let's be serious never happens unless you taunt it...)

 

It's definitely not a buff to the class, considering the stuff they took away for it

[SmellNoEvil]

Obliterate now has the immobilization effect that Charge used to have. Due to stun effect now implemented to Charge, I feel that Rage has more utility over other juggernauts in 1.2 that prior.

[wickedUOF]

We know exactly how the self heal works. You spend 4 rage just to activate it. It dumps threat. For the next 10 seconds every time you are hit you get healed for 3% your max health with a 1 second internal cooldown. However, it also takes a rage each time you are healed. this makes it cost a total of 14 rage to get the full effect, and effect that simply mitigates some damage and consumes so much resource, chances you will still die because you can't kill what is killing you do to having very limited resources.

 

Is the 4 rage taking into account the Rage spec talent that reduces activation cost?

 

So it heals you for 450, that doesn't seem too bad. Since I'm rage spec I often check Highest Hits to see how I stacked up and many guys never even get the 2.5k medal, so to my eyes thats a pretty good % of damage reduced coming in. Maybe I'll even get heal medals with it over the course of a match.

 

How long is the Cooldown on it?

Is the buff removed if you reach 0 rage and it tries to heal you? Or does it stay on full 10 seconds regardless and you just don't get any health if you have 0 rage?

 

Can you right click the buff to remove it if you want?

 

 

 

In all honesty I am unconcerned with PVE so I may be biased against maximizing damage per second. To me adding 3 seconds on to my smash/scream combo is pretty minor, I'll probably start using Viscous slash in there now. I can now use my smash/scream combo far more often because of the buff to Enrage.

 

 

The 10% reduction to Decimate is pretty gay. Maybe will be harder to get the 5k medal now.

[Elyx]

class balance, and the buffs/nerfs introduced to adjust that balance, are really only a pvp concern.

 

for pve it doesnt matter too much if your tank is OP or UP compared to other classes, as long as it can tank what it is required to tank.

likewise dps and healers. as long as they fullfill their role, they are fine. a healer in heavy armor with 100% resistances and the ability to hit like a truck is fine in pve where its role is healing, as long as its healing does the job.

 

even so, the changes made to jugs will be a nerf for rage spec not just in pvp but in pve aswell. or did you not read the bit about 10% LESS smash buff and longer cooldowns on force abilities.

alterations to a class that reduce that classes effectiveness are generaly classified as a NERF by most folks familiar with MMOs.

 

Well, the adjustements do impact PvE...most people just tend to shrug it off in PvE. Doesn't mean it wont impact them.

 

and I think that My points still stand. the OP didn't specify what he was discussing, but people started talking about PvP.

 

I'll give you that force alacrity loss is a net DPS loss. honestly, hadn't paid a huge amount of attention to the rage specifics...don't play it. but at the same time, your getting decimate in your tree...which means 3 less points you have to spend other places to get it...and you get it sooner...obviously not a replacement, but it cuts the loss down a teeny bit. But I still think that overall, the Juggernaut got a mild buff. at the very least, we broke even. and compared to the changes in most the other classes, thats a plus.

 

Perhaps if you focus solely on PvP then your preferred spec may have been reduced a bit. But...goes back to my point, the CLASS didn't get nerfed. certain specs got nerfed in certain situations. I'm sure most folks familiar with MMO's can understand THAT.

 

So, now all we need to do is change the title for all these threads that are screaming "Juggs got nerfed!" My PvE vengance jugg and tanking Jugg is fine. i respect my PvP brethren in their concerns...but we get threads like the OP's because of how information is misrepresented. I have no clue why people can't just simply admit 'How I play the class got nerfed'. perhaps they don't think it will get as much attention as saying the entire class got nerfed? still misrepresentation.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Elyx

[Vid-szhite]

Obliterate now has the immobilization effect that Charge used to have. Due to stun effect now implemented to Charge, I feel that Rage has more utility over other juggernauts in 1.2 that prior.

 

Charge doesn't stun anymore. They removed Crash from the game a short while after everyone said they hated it.

[Vid-szhite]

Well, the adjustements do impact PvE...most people just tend to shrug it off in PvE. Doesn't mean it wont impact them.

 

and I think that My points still stand. the OP didn't specify what he was discussing, but people started talking about PvP.

 

I'll give you that force alacrity loss is a net DPS loss. honestly, hadn't paid a huge amount of attention to the rage specifics...don't play it. but at the same time, your getting decimate in your tree...which means 3 less points you have to spend other places to get it...and you get it sooner...obviously not a replacement, but it cuts the loss down a teeny bit. But I still think that overall, the Juggernaut got a mild buff. at the very least, we broke even. and compared to the changes in most the other classes, thats a plus.

 

The buff to Ravage and Vicious Throw is a buff to Vengeance. We rely on Ravage and VT a whole lot more than Rage does, and considering Decimate was just fluff to us anyway, Vengeance is looking up in 1.2. I'm already top DPS in nearly every PvP, yes even beating Conqueror-rank Rage Juggs and making the Focus Guardians on my server look like chumps, so I didn't really think Rage needed a nerf. Whatever the devs feel is best, then...

Edited April 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Elyx]

Actually, disregard my comment on the class...the OP asked about rage WTB reading skills....

[Noth]

Is the 4 rage taking into account the Rage spec talent that reduces activation cost?

 

So it heals you for 450, that doesn't seem too bad. Since I'm rage spec I often check Highest Hits to see how I stacked up and many guys never even get the 2.5k medal, so to my eyes thats a pretty good % of damage reduced coming in. Maybe I'll even get heal medals with it over the course of a match.

 

How long is the Cooldown on it?

Is the buff removed if you reach 0 rage and it tries to heal you? Or does it stay on full 10 seconds regardless and you just don't get any health if you have 0 rage?

 

Can you right click the buff to remove it if you want?

 

 

 

In all honesty I am unconcerned with PVE so I may be biased against maximizing damage per second. To me adding 3 seconds on to my smash/scream combo is pretty minor, I'll probably start using Viscous slash in there now. I can now use my smash/scream combo far more often because of the buff to Enrage.

 

 

The 10% reduction to Decimate is pretty gay. Maybe will be harder to get the 5k medal now.

 

No it is not taking into account the talent. With the talent it is still 12 rage. Buff stays if you are out of rage, but you get now health. The rage drain in a duel will effectively negate the heals as you will typically have to start spamming more low damage builders, unless you built up full rage in preparation for its use, which defeats the purpose of a defensive cooldown.

[Dee-Jay]

The removal of Force Alacrity is quite a huge change imo and will leave a big impact on Rage DPS.

 

That's our two money-makers, Smash and Scream receiving a 33% increase to their cooldown. That, coupled with the 10% reduced Smash damage will really limit Rage DPS viability.

 

The only silver lining I see is that there really won't be much incentive to PvP in Shii-Sho form any more so many Rage Juggers will simply switch to Sorensu, resulting in even less damage but more survivability.

[Goretzu]

 

So, now all we need to do is change the title for all these threads that are screaming "Juggs got nerfed!" My PvE vengance jugg and tanking Jugg is fine..

 

 

The title of this thread is "Did rage Juggs get nerfed?"

 

They did, in PvP and PvE. How much depends on how viable the new filler is and how much others are nerfed over all.

[Xerain]

Read this. Rage Juggs have been nerfed, and the play style somewhat changed.

 

I guess how bad depends on the nerfs to other classes, but it's difficult to see how a Rage Jugg out competes a Rage Mara in anyway in a min/max sense post-1.2 (currently Mara has surviability and utility, but Jugg has a slightly bigger boom).

 

Did you just say marauder has more utility than a jugg?

 

 

Hey good thing about the changes, you can sit in tank stance and not lose 3 seconds off your force abilities thus giving you the time to guard a lot more. Oh man utility.

[WarSiren]

We know exactly how the self heal works. You spend 4 rage just to activate it. It dumps threat. For the next 10 seconds every time you are hit you get healed for 3% your max health with a 1 second internal cooldown. However, it also takes a rage each time you are healed. this makes it cost a total of 14 rage to get the full effect, and effect that simply mitigates some damage and consumes so much resource, chances you will still die because you can't kill what is killing you do to having very limited resources.

 

For a Veng Jugg it's a great CD we generate so much rage it's stupid. You're scenario is if the Jugg is just standing there doing nothing, the ability doesn't root you or stop you from generating rage.

 

I mean even a Rage Jugg who doesn't generate as much rage, can use this effectively, they will however have to use Assault and Sundering Assault a lot more while this is up to maintain resources. But simply consuming 1 rage every second isn't a huge deal if you're you know generating rage via your rage builders.

Edited April 10, 2012 by WarSiren

[swooshien]

i dont really see it as a nerf. the 3 secs on smash isnt that bad, you can only use a fully charged smash every so often (limited by crush and choke cds), but now you can get a free 100%smash with enrage and no rage costs on interrupts and fear anymore and root on obliterate really seems like a big buff to me. im happy about it!

[Noth]

For a Veng Jugg it's a great CD we generate so much rage it's stupid. You're scenario is if the Jugg is just standing there doing nothing, the ability doesn't root you or stop you from generating rage.

 

I mean even a Rage Jugg who doesn't generate as much rage, can use this effectively, they will however have to use Assault and Sundering Assault a lot more while this is up to maintain resources. But simply consuming 1 rage every second isn't a huge deal if you're you know generating rage via your rage builders.

 

Actually it's huge, it essentially cuts your rage gen in half, which will cut into your dps. Vengeance can possibly make use of it but it is still going to cut into dps. It is way too costly to be a good cooldown. No other cooldown has such a huge cost and stipulation tied to it.

[WarSiren]

Actually it's huge, it essentially cuts your rage gen in half, which will cut into your dps. Vengeance can possibly make use of it but it is still going to cut into dps. It is way too costly to be a good cooldown. No other cooldown has such a huge cost and stipulation tied to it.

 

I think you're still looking at it as if you're just standing there not gaining any rage man. Will it cut into a little of your dps for sure, but it's a cool down you can pop even when you're stunned or CCed. THAT'S HUGE. If you find yourself lacking rage after poping it we do have this ability called enrage that can buffer your rage.

 

either you're just so focused on the cost you're not really doing the math at how it's really not that bad, and can be worked through easily or maybe you're only looking at it from a PvE perspective, as a PvP CD it's pretty BA yes it's costly but eh it can be popped while CCed and we have plenty of ways to build rage up to continue fighting while it's up.