STOP confusing tank specced Sins with DPS

[Swidgin]

Everyone is calling for nerfs to the KC tank spec in pvp. Yet, I have no problem taking out a tank spec assassin (with the exception of a very few good assassins) on my server with my infil spec shadow.

 

Strange, how these things work.

 

I LOL'd at this.

 

Shadow/Assassin Tank spec is the best 1 v 1 spec in the game...You can have the open...then you die.

[Swidgin]

Easy fix....

 

Combat Tech...10% less Dam (It already has 5%)

 

Shadow tech....10% inc Dam (Does not stack with FP)

 

 

DONE ......................DO IT BW!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Swidgin

[AMKSED]

So while having stupid-crazy defense it's okay for me to still hit for 3-5k regularly?

[AMKSED]

Preliminary parses(credit to Neaham for providing the link) show KC/darkness being about 300 dps behind both dps specs for the AC while wearing dps gear. So, in the case of these forums, its bad players whining about things they haven't even spent the time to research and understand.

 

2/31/8 PvE Infiltration http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4135/...rationdumm.png 1357 dps

 

7/3/31 PVE Balance(without project, damage would increase if used) http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8216/adribalance2.png 1283.4 dps

 

7/3/31 PvE no project, with SS http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8...ribalance3.png 1374 dps

 

31/0/10 tank build, dps gear http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4323/kinetic.png 1099 dps

 

Those charts aren't even accurate.

[SquallyZ]

I LOL'd at this.

 

Shadow/Assassin Tank spec is the best 1 v 1 spec in the game...You can have the open...then you die.

 

Yet, I can take them out in my infil spec. Everyone says the same thing, "I LOLEd at u". Yet how many infil shadows do you see running around? Very few because everyone has this notion that the tank build is better at dps, when it isn't. It's much easier to play but it surely does not out dps a infil spec shadow. Sure you survive better, but you're not going to be able to dps a good infil spec (and geared) shadow 1v1 fast enough because I'm out dpsing you, and I can survive just as long as you if I manage your resolve bar correctly and watch for your damage reduction buffs and time my attacks accordingly.

 

Have you ever played infil spec? Your'e burst is not on the open FYI, you have to build up your buffs with your two clairvoyant strikes before you even get into your main damage dealing attacks. Basically, stealth up to the target, pop adrenals, spinning kick, clairvoyant strike, (at this point they're standing back up), low slash, clairvoyant strike, project, force breach, shadow strike (if infiltration tactics has proced). By this point, they should be down to around 1/4th of their health, yes even tank assassins. From this point on it's based upon what you're target is doing. Normally, tank assassins either stealth and limp away at this point, or put up their 100% damage reduction and 50% melee/ranged damage reduction as well. That is, if they didn't jump the gun and throw it up the second you opened on them. Follow your opening chain up with your increased crit buff (can't recall the name of the skill atm) and your next project/force breach combo should finish them. If not, spinning strike should do the job and finish them off.

 

On average, my project crits for 3.5k on geared targets, with the second rock hitting them for 1.8k. Force breach will average for about 3.8k but I've hit as hard as 4.5k with it before on under geared targets. Shadow strike is hitting them for between 3k and 3.8k. While spinning strike hits for around 3k as well. Bottom line, if my CDs are up, you're getting hit by pretty much all of this while you're perma stunned (assuming some ******* doesn't come up and fill your resolve bar). The only downside is it's very bursty (as it should be) and if I don't finish you by the second rotation of project/force breach/spinning strike then I fizzle out and have to pop my defensive CDs or slip away. But even then, I often slip away only to open up on the target again, sometimes taking them down. Now, if the tank assassin is wearing actual tank gear and has a ton of health then it becomes significantly harder. However, 90% of tank assassins are wearing dps gear which makes it much much easier to take them down.

 

Bottom line, infil spec is great 1v1, even versus tank assassins. The only class I have a problem taking down 1v1 would be bounty hunters in heal spec or tank spec. A good juggernaut can be a PITA as well. So go ahead and LOL because I will too when they nerf the shadow/assassin FOTM tank spec because people keep QQing about it and they're even easier for me to take down

[Orangerascal]

Wow nice, a tanksin in dps gear can almost out dps scrapper(1137) and Dirty fighting(1145) Scoundrels.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=369298&page=7

 

You wonder why swtor didn't launch with combat logs

[Khadroth]

You wonder why swtor didn't launch with combat logs

 

It was only a matter of time, we were already able to simulate assassin dps with very close accuracy, eventually the other AC's/specs would have been simulated and BW would have gotten yelled at.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Khadroth

[Neoforcer]

Those charts aren't even accurate.

 

 

Actually they are right there ran trough the new phaser with the combat logs from PTS so it like looking at recount for your self.

 

 

And those charts are what the devs are seeing in there in game metrics. Hence why your call for nerf do not happen

Edited April 7, 2012 by Neoforcer

[Ravenolf]

Tankasins (even in dps gear) have low-average dps and high survivability.

 

DPS Sins have high dps and average survivability.

 

For the love of all the MMO gods PLEASE stop getting them confused and screaming for nerfs on a class you clearly do not understand.

 

And while I am at it, quit confusing warzone damage with dps.

WZ dmg = TOTAL damage done.

DPS= Damage-Per-Second.

HUGE diference people.

 

Can't argue. Nerf them both.

[Cowflab]

Those charts aren't even accurate.

 

Care to explain how you came to that conclusion? Also, could you provide your own with a detailed explanation on how you arrived at the numbers you deem accurate? Those are parsed off of the PTS, BTW. If I were to take a stab at it, ie guess that "your accurate numbers" are coming off of the MMO-mechanics.com(if you even have a parse). If that's the case, I think you should know that the numbers achieved on the simulator from that site were done in base rate columi without min/maxed mods...etc...etc... The numbers they came up with in that setup were 1229 dps for madness and 1110 for deception.

 

A later simulation was done by the same player with min/maxed gear and he came out with 1348 dps as madness. All of the details of these tests can be found with a Google search. Judging by your posting history, I'm not even going to bother explaining things here because it appears you 1) type just to hear yourself talk, and 2) argue incessantly for no other reason than to argue.

[Neoforcer]

Cowflab there no sense in arguing with AMKSED When he looks at your post all he see is BLAH BLah BLAH no nerf which he points to one screen shot of civil war were the sin never dies for the hole battle. The other side zergs the hole fight to prove his point of view is right

 

 

Don't confuse him with real fact data as that does not prove his point, it disprove it.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Neoforcer

[therouterninja]

Damage and Survival aren't mutually exclusive. The longer you survive, the more damage you deal out.

[Codyjo]

Wow what a troll

 

Your LOLAOE is being laughed at.

 

 

Me in full tank 31/0/10 and a Sentinel and a Commando rolled a 4 man with your DPS KC hybrid tank in it.

 

They are especially squishy when they can't pop their needed cooldowns

 

 

I encourage all these people to continue to spec DPS stats with a KC hybrid build. Your instant cast Force lifts and lol 3k projects make me laugh.

 

you make me laugh zintair

[Noctournys]

Tankasins (even in dps gear) have low-average dps and high survivability.

 

DPS Sins have high dps and average survivability.

 

For the love of all the MMO gods PLEASE stop getting them confused and screaming for nerfs on a class you clearly do not understand.

 

And while I am at it, quit confusing warzone damage with dps.

WZ dmg = TOTAL damage done.

DPS= Damage-Per-Second.

HUGE diference people.

 

Its hard not to confuse them. I shoot the guy and get 3 deflects in a row, then an Ambush crit for 400. Meanwhile, he's twirling his little glowbaton like a colorguard pro gone mad, hitting me for 2-4k a swing.

 

Huh.

[SquallyZ]

Its hard not to confuse them. I shoot the guy and get 3 deflects in a row, then an Ambush crit for 400. Meanwhile, he's twirling his little glowbaton like a colorguard pro gone mad, hitting me for 2-4k a swing.

 

Huh.

 

If he's "twirling his glow baton" then he's not tank spec, nor does that attack hit for 2-4k a swing.

Edited April 7, 2012 by SquallyZ

[Jarfunkz]

Tank spec'd Shadows/Assassins are hard to kill because they can mitigate damage. Other tanks mitigate damage even better. And there damage isn't particularly good. Lvl 10's can get 200k+ in a WZ but I have yet to come close to that (at lvl 47 in good gear) and I'm a fairly decent Shadow.

 

Infiltration/Deception spec'd Shads/Sins have it even worse unless they have a friend pocket healing them. They are probably the squishyiest class/spec in the game. And they can't even burst as well as a Smuggler or Operative. And all those guys have to play opportunistically only popping out for a kill then vanishing to do it all over again. So there overall dps in a WZ is low.

 

Actually other tank classes do not mitigate damage better...

[Swidgin]

Yet, I can take them out in my infil spec. Everyone says the same thing, "I LOLEd at u". Yet how many infil shadows do you see running around? Very few because everyone has this notion that the tank build is better at dps, when it isn't. It's much easier to play but it surely does not out dps a infil spec shadow. Sure you survive better, but you're not going to be able to dps a good infil spec (and geared) shadow 1v1 fast enough because I'm out dpsing you, and I can survive just as long as you if I manage your resolve bar correctly and watch for your damage reduction buffs and time my attacks accordingly.

 

Have you ever played infil spec? Your'e burst is not on the open FYI, you have to build up your buffs with your two clairvoyant strikes before you even get into your main damage dealing attacks. Basically, stealth up to the target, pop adrenals, spinning kick, clairvoyant strike, (at this point they're standing back up), low slash, clairvoyant strike, project, force breach, shadow strike (if infiltration tactics has proced). By this point, they should be down to around 1/4th of their health, yes even tank assassins. From this point on it's based upon what you're target is doing. Normally, tank assassins either stealth and limp away at this point, or put up their 100% damage reduction and 50% melee/ranged damage reduction as well. That is, if they didn't jump the gun and throw it up the second you opened on them. Follow your opening chain up with your increased crit buff (can't recall the name of the skill atm) and your next project/force breach combo should finish them. If not, spinning strike should do the job and finish them off.

 

On average, my project crits for 3.5k on geared targets, with the second rock hitting them for 1.8k. Force breach will average for about 3.8k but I've hit as hard as 4.5k with it before on under geared targets. Shadow strike is hitting them for between 3k and 3.8k. While spinning strike hits for around 3k as well. Bottom line, if my CDs are up, you're getting hit by pretty much all of this while you're perma stunned (assuming some ******* doesn't come up and fill your resolve bar). The only downside is it's very bursty (as it should be) and if I don't finish you by the second rotation of project/force breach/spinning strike then I fizzle out and have to pop my defensive CDs or slip away. But even then, I often slip away only to open up on the target again, sometimes taking them down. Now, if the tank assassin is wearing actual tank gear and has a ton of health then it becomes significantly harder. However, 90% of tank assassins are wearing dps gear which makes it much much easier to take them down.

 

Bottom line, infil spec is great 1v1, even versus tank assassins. The only class I have a problem taking down 1v1 would be bounty hunters in heal spec or tank spec. A good juggernaut can be a PITA as well. So go ahead and LOL because I will too when they nerf the shadow/assassin FOTM tank spec because people keep QQing about it and they're even easier for me to take down

 

You are talking to the WRONG player....I stayed Infil spec FOREVER. I wish it wasn't the OP spec Bcuz it takes some skill to play. But you wouldn't stand a chance against a GOOD Shadow/Assassin tank.

 

Def CD burst you die....

 

I'm on your side, I want me some Infil. But ATM KC is better by a mile & 1/2!

[Thexremstar]

Tankasins (even in dps gear) have low-average dps and high survivability.

 

DPS Sins have high dps and average survivability.

 

For the love of all the MMO gods PLEASE stop getting them confused and screaming for nerfs on a class you clearly do not understand.

 

And while I am at it, quit confusing warzone damage with dps.

WZ dmg = TOTAL damage done.

DPS= Damage-Per-Second.

HUGE diference people.

 

if you have played any sabre swinger class you will see that they play like any melee class and run in and out takeing it in turns to wack you (GCD) if you stand still long enuff u will die(obviously) and yes overall damage and dps are totally different.

 

if your playing a melee class and chaseing someone 90% of the time they are leading into a trap or just watching ur HP drop to zero while they kite you around and they let there range dps kill you. Dont chase ppl if u cant stop them or gang up on them look for another target.

 

Thexremstar

[Raansu]

Preliminary parses(credit to Neaham for providing the link) show KC/darkness being about 300 dps behind both dps specs for the AC while wearing dps gear. So, in the case of these forums, its bad players whining about things they haven't even spent the time to research and understand.

 

2/31/8 PvE Infiltration http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4135/...rationdumm.png 1357 dps

 

7/3/31 PVE Balance(without project, damage would increase if used) http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8216/adribalance2.png 1283.4 dps

 

7/3/31 PvE no project, with SS http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8...ribalance3.png 1374 dps

 

31/0/10 tank build, dps gear http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4323/kinetic.png 1099 dps

 

And you dont find it the least bit ridiculous that a tank spec can come that close in damage to a dps spec...?

[Noctournys]

If he's "twirling his glow baton" then he's not tank spec, nor does that attack hit for 2-4k a swing.

 

The numbers popping up above my head say otherwise.

[Cowflab]

And you dont find it the least bit ridiculous that a tank spec can come that close in damage to a dps spec...?

 

Although it is strong dps for a tank build, 300 dps is still a pretty good gap. Before you call me a FOTM player or anything like that, I play madness spec.

[Cowflab]

The numbers popping up above my head say otherwise.

 

Unless by "twirling his glow baton" you're talking about assassinate, you're dealing with a deception/infil. There is no way a tank is hitting you with anything that hard with his saber. Thrash crits are typically in the 1.2k-1.4k range.

[Raansu]

Although it is strong dps for a tank build, 300 dps is still a pretty good gap. Before you call me a FOTM player or anything like that, I play madness spec.

 

I'm not calling anyone a FOTM player. All I simply said was that a gap of 300 dps between a tank spec and a dps spec is ridiculously small. Tank spec shouldn't be hitting those numbers, or at the very least, shouldn't be that close to a pure dps spec.

[Sharpiie]

Made a shadow alt, got him to 50, got him BM gear.

 

This is just such an easy class to play, and people can't kill me. The damage is too much for a tank spec.

 

Whoever denies that this is OP is just delusional.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Sharpiie

[stineo]

I'm not calling anyone a FOTM player. All I simply said was that a gap of 300 dps between a tank spec and a dps spec is ridiculously small. Tank spec shouldn't be hitting those numbers, or at the very least, shouldn't be that close to a pure dps spec.

 

And who says operative/smugglers are pure dps? Last I checked the only pure DPS classes are sents/mauraders. They can't heal or tank, hence they are pure dps.

 

If you think dps is the only factor in playing a good operative/smuggler then you have no place in any warzone. You will get your butt handed to you most of the time playing like that.