The Thrasher Hybrid Assassin

[Delillo]

The Thrasher Hybrid Assassin

 

The Thrasher build is designed to be an alternative to the standard 31/0/10 (or 31/1/9 which I prefer) darkness build. The build sacrifices some of the tanky group utility (and AOE focus) of the standard build for better single target pop.

 

 

First some observations about the 31 point darkness build.

 

1. Dark Charge- quite simply, Dark Charge is substantially better than lightning or surging charge. +150% armor at the cost of 5% bonus damage (that's not even 5% damage, that's more like 2.5% damage) is a great exchange. The only reason to take any other charge is simply that they are pre-requisites for some abilities in other trees- so unless you are going to go full madness or deception, dark charge is the default assassin stance.

 

2. Wither is great. Talk about an all-in one ability. Things it has going for it: AOE, increased range, force attack, snare, damage debuff and if that wasn't enough, it triggers harnessed darkness. Its everything a 31 point should be. You could probably take out 75% of the damage of this ability and it would still be worth using every CD.

 

3. Harnessed Darkness is great as well. Big damage with a substantial self-heal. It's so good that pretty much everything you do as a 31 point darkness assassin is about building charges of harnessed darkness so you can do it again.

 

4. Energize + Exploitive Strikes is amazing synergy. Energize is a guaranteed crit that procs a huge melee crit rate buff. Combine this with Recklessness which gives +50% crit damage and you have very hard hitting shocks, especially when combined with Electrify and Chain Shock.

 

5. Huge utility- all the best utility lies in the darkness tree. Disjunction is what every Deception assassin wants and can't have, especially when combined with the reduced cool-down on force speed.. Ranged pull and an out-of-stealth knockdown. Higher energy regen and a second self-heal are all just bonus.

 

 

The Negatives:

1. Your threat to healers is not great.

2. The prevalence of so many darkness assassins means that much of that great utility from wither is probably already taken care of.

 

 

So one of the things I found while playing 31/1/9 is that I had a tendency to be a complete slave to harnessed darkness. I start combat with wither and shock and 7.5 seconds later I wither again and I have 3 procs of harnessed darkness and I am ready to Force Lightning. By the time Force Lightning ends shock and Wither are off cooldown so that's two more charges of harnessed darkness...and so it goes. Rinse and Repeat.

 

So what this means is that pretty much all of your force is devoted to wither, shock, force lightning, and (hopefully) assassinate. I use Discharge in big groups of course but you actually need to make sure that you don't burn through your force doing other things...like using Thrash. So its actually hard, or even self-defeating, to try to make Energize a part of your rotation. So between Wither, Shock (no guaranteed crit) and Force Lightning you are putting out a good bit of damage but its not the most focused.

 

Also, the devotion to wither, shock, and Force lightning, all force attacks, means that the extra 200-ish Force Power from a focus instead of a shield is put to good use.

 

 

 

The Thrasher Hybrid build is designed to sacrifice the group utility of Wither in order to provide more single target threat.

 

The Thrasher Hybrid Build

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrRkrskbZoZf0cMb.1

 

 

 

So, this build retains all the good stuff from 31/1/9 with the exception of wither. You also stop using Discharge. The main thing you add is:

 

Claws of Decay

Increases the critical strike damage dealt by Thrash by 50%.

 

You are now reliant on shock to build stacks of harnessed darkness, which will be slower. However, ALL of your shocks will now crit because you thrash until you proc energize, which also resets the CD of shock. Energized shocks automatically trigger Exploitive strikes so you have +15% crit to Thrashes which do +50% crit damage.

 

Note: I don't feel at all strongly about the points in Swelling Shadows and Electric Execution. If you want to put those points into +3% Endurance, go right ahead. This is just a decision to add a tad more offense at the expense of a few HP. Also since you are thrashing so much more than other Darkness Assassins, talents that effect Dark Charge procs get more milage. Also there is a free point floating around there- the key build is 27/1/12 so if you want to put 1 point into an expensive Death Field and use it situationally, do so. I still recommend 4 points in Swelling Shadows and Electric Execution.

 

Also, unlike the standard Darkness's use of almost exclusive force attacks, the Thrasher is going to use a much higher percentage of melee attacks- meaning that the smaller force power figure on shields affects them less. In other words, Thrash does pretty much the same damage whether you are using a shield or a focus...so use a shield (and dark ward and receive the benefit of Hollow).

 

Gear

Now what I have been unable to test, since I don't really PvE, is what this spec would do using Rakata armor mods with everything else Battlemaster. Rakata Stalker set bonuses are (2) Saber Strike hits restore 1 Force and (4) +15% crit on Thrash(!). So you'd have to lose 200 Expertise in exchange for +85 Endurance and +82 Wisdom. Thats 964 Expertise vs. 1164 (or about 19% bonus vs. 22.2% expertise bonus). Using this set Thrash would be running at +30% crit (above base) most of the time and do +50% crit damage (above base) when it hits. Also remember that crits can't be shielded, so that's definitely some extra penetration. Also, since this build is so melee damage based, the BM gear high accuracy numbers are actually put to much better use. Your near-constant +15% melee crit means Assassinates and duplicity-proc'd Mauls are going to hit big much more often, so thats also more burst and more kills.

 

If Rakata gear is not an option then you probably do want the Survivor set bonuses (reduced CD on Spike and +5% damage when Guarding) without the other survivor shielding stats, which is pretty much standard Darkness itemization at this point.

 

Testing

My experience with this build so far- I am almost full BM (still using champ saber and shield). And my overall damage is slightly down in WZs without Wither and Discharge to pad the numbers but my killing blows are up at least 25%. Against most other classes I feel better 1v1, since my 1v1 damage is higher and much more bursty, so I'm more likely to finish off opponents I control. Ironically other Tank Assassins are now a harder matchup since their force attacks ignore my shield and because the debuff effects of wither and discharge are frankly, effective against this build.

 

Personally, my ego can live with this. I'd rather be better at killing enemy healers and DPS than dueling my mirrors, but some might conclude that this spec is “worse” than the standard 31 point build because its at a disadvantage in a heads up fight.

 

Play-style

Without Wither, you also need to play more like a deception assassin since your target isn't perma-snared. You will use force slow from time to time, but if you leveled as deception as I did, that should be second nature. Unlike Deception, the Thrasher has Force Pull and disjunction at his disposal. You definitely have to be good at watching your buffs and procs to play this build, especially as you are completely reliant on shock to build harnessed darkness. Much like Maul and duplicity, you don't shock without an energize proc- shock is too expensive to cast without being patient for the guaranteed crit. You also need to be careful not to fall into a “force well” where you don't have enough force to shock but you do have enough force to thrash- and therefore you stop Shocking- you need to be patient and saber strike up to acceptable level of force when shock is available.

 

The other side of this is that dark charge itself will heal you more because you are using Thrash and Saber Strike so often- you are also getting much more milage out of Overcharge Saber with this spec.

 

In the end, this build gets the most out of the Assassin's simplest ability but then sets up 3 different procs to take advantage of its use - Energize, Duplicity, and Harnessed Darkness.

 

Summary

I am not going to tell you that this build is “better” than the standard 31/0/10 (or 31/1/9) build. This is more a play-style choice. I do think this provides a play-style that is closer to what most people wanted when they chose an Assassin in the first place. There are many times, especially in group PvP, where you may choose the single target threat that the Thrasher provides over the AE pressure that the standard Darkness build provides. So the Thrasher might be the Assassin to run...when you're running more than one.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Delillo

[Neovag]

Why on Earth would you put a point in Duplicity, instead of Death Field?

[upzie]

Why on Earth would you put a point in Duplicity, instead of Death Field?

 

Because DF is useless w/o Fanatiscm.

 

As for this build vs 31/0/10 I personaly pref 31/0/10, wither -> shock -> Fl. I personaly go for 3 stacks of HD if I got Reck up, and then only after I get a energize procc for 3x hd -> wither -> Energized shock wich results in pretty massive burst.

 

With this approach the self healing is amazing for longivity.

Edited April 8, 2012 by upzie

[Delillo]

Why on Earth would you put a point in Duplicity, instead of Death Field?

 

The point in Duplicity is actually really good. What is really wasteful is the full 3 points in Duplicity. My deception spec was 2/1/2 in the first tier because the next 2 points in duplicity are so wasteful because of the proc lockout.

 

But just a single point in Duplicity means its going to proc quite often giving some cheap punch to any darkness build.

 

Even if you go 31 points into Darkness, I recommend 1 point into Duplicity. Your saber strikes will make sure that its available often. Scrimp one point on torment instead.

[toshman]

meh....not sure about this one.

 

i rather get DF instead of duplicity. this way you still have a decent AOE that hits hard. currently using 27/0/14. and thrash can hit for 1200 per hit with full stalker BM.

 

3xshock still proc FL.

[Koolmea]

I have an almost same spec ...but why are you using Hollow and Dark Ward, everyone knows shielding is almost equal to 0 in PVP. And since you're a tankassin you should really not use a shield generator ...

Those 3 points you used in those skills should go to Shroud of Drankess imho.

But meh, everyone has his playstyle.

Overall is a good spec.

[Fatealis]

Wasting a point in duplicity instead of deathfeild definitely hurts this build. 10% to proc is really worth it to you over a 30 m range aoe ? Seriously consider fixing this to put deathfeild in it that is the build i use when i play Offensive darkness.

[Delillo]

I have an almost same spec ...but why are you using Hollow and Dark Ward, everyone knows shielding is almost equal to 0 in PVP.

 

I think the early reports of shielding's uselessness were greatly exaggerated for one thing. I have played with this build enough to see the charges of dark ward being used up to know that I am indeed shielding damage and often. Hollow is worth taking if only for the heal, so the additional shielding is a nice bonus.

 

And, again, unlike a 31pt darkness assassin who lives by wither, shock, discharge, and force lightning almost exclusively, this build is going to use most of its force on thrash, along with proc'd mauls and assassinates. The difference between the focus and the shield is primarily FORCE POWER so melee attacks hit just as hard with the shield, ergo I'll only take a damage hit from using a shield on shock and force lightning. That said, if you want to build to be as offensive as possible use the focus by all means. I just play too much huttball to give up the shield.

 

As far as the floating points on the darkness side, I don't think the return on 1% more HP for 1 skill point is that great. Since this build thrashes and saber strikes so much the return on charge based talents is greater.

 

FWIW the single point in duplicity in the 31 point darkness build is something that I got from Tamgros who runs the 31/1/9 spec. I especially recommend the 31/1/9 build is you leveled as deception and have a high comfort level with maul.

 

Wasting a point in duplicity instead of deathfeild definitely hurts this build. 10% to proc is really worth it to you over a 30 m range aoe ? Seriously consider fixing this to put deathfeild in it that is the build i use when i play Offensive darkness.

 

Well you have to remember that that 10% proc rate is per swing and each thrash swings twice and each saber strike swings 3 times. So what you find is that when you get to the point when you are going to force lightning, its available: And then the FL > Maul > Assassinate > shock provides the burst you need to actually finish targets off.

 

If I were to keep death field in the build, you simply can't use it at 50 force. You have to take the talents to make it cheaper. At best you can take it down 25% before you have to start eating into claws of decay or harnessed darkness, the two cornerstones of the build.

 

I would rather keep the build focused on killing a single target.

[Hethroin]

Setting up HD stacks with shock is going to take a long time and isn't going to give you the results you are looking for unless you're going for a top 1v1 spec.

 

I've been running 24/0/17 ever since they broke 23/0/18. This spec does more single target damage than the full tank, keeps most of the mitigation, while losing standing-still-self-heals and gaining on-the-move WW and DF in place of whither. My play style is more mobile than the tank spec with HD allows me to be.

[Delillo]

Setting up HD stacks with shock is going to take a long time and isn't going to give you the results you are looking for unless you're going for a top 1v1 spec.

 

I've been running 24/0/17 ever since they broke 23/0/18. This spec does more single target damage than the full tank, keeps most of the mitigation, while losing standing-still-self-heals and gaining on-the-move WW and DF in place of whither. My play style is more mobile than the tank spec with HD allows me to be.

 

Well, I am going for a top 1v1 spec.

 

Re: your 24/0/17

Looks good. These are all playstyle choices and I think your spec makes some good ones.

 

24/0/17

Death Field

Instant WW

Claw of Decay

 

vs

 

27/1/14

Improved Maul

Harnessed Darkness

Claws of Decay

 

vs

 

31/0/10

Wither

Harnessed Darkness

Discharge

 

I think you look at these choices and you'd say that 31 darkness has the most AE and debuffing. 27/1/14 has the most single target threat, and 24/0/17 sacrifices some single target threat and healing for improved CC and mid range AE capability.

 

The question I would ask is which spec is best vs that sorc or merc. Does harnessed darkness or instant whirlwind make killing that healer easier?

 

My money's on harnessed darkness. I had a few good over time 1v1's in Ilum the last couple of days against healers. Without HD, I think my opponent could have simply outlasted me. With harnessed darkness, I was able to heal enough to make them run dry on their force. The healer has to choose between healing and doing damage. With HD, you can do both.

 

Another thing I've noticed on my stats at the end of the WZs is that I am healing for 15-20k more per WZ than with 31/1/9. I can only attribute this to additional dark charge procs from this spec and how you use it. In other words, by thrashing and saber striking more you heal 40-50% more.

[Kornaker]

I post here the Hybrid Trasher build i use:

 

http://knotor.com/skills#Ag4bAQ0qQUlRanOBiZGao6rK0tvJiZqrusvS

 

I Think DF is cool and better for my playstyle than Wither, just because of 30m, yeah its just 3 guys, and 3% of life gain. With 30% up of Force regen, pffffff 50 Force is not really a problem.

 

EW is just great to make a dynamic burst sometimes ( Yeah sure you must put your hand on table, make 400 of God save the queen for Maul to crit, but... 3K min!!! )

 

And With Trash ans Shock most of time in crit, I found me being insane bursting all the time.

 

I have roll on Tomb of Freedom nadd but i was before on Scepter of Ragnos with:

3 Rakata and the 4 Bonus Def set BM with dps mods.

 

that was just insane, the burst is very great, playstyle is more deception than being a caster with the full 30/0/10 -_-' (Hd Fl HD FL, you move sometimes or not?! I'M NOT A SORC!!!!!!!! )

Edited April 11, 2012 by Kornaker

[Ecimon]

Heya, I really like the looks of your trasher hybrid, one of the things is actually being able to use shield without too much grief.

 

I was messing around a bit with the talents while I'm waiting for the servers to come back up, I was thinking of something along these lines:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrokrskdZhGb0zZc.1

 

I know that it's not a Trasher build anymore, but somehow the extra utility from always available force looks nice, not to mention faster runspeed and lower cd on Jolt and Unbreakable will... I'm just wondering if the extra utility with increased force regen would make it up instead of the extra surge on trash from your build?

 

Please share your opinions, I'm sure I've missed something!

[Delillo]

I guess I would say that

 

1. The lower end of the deception tree is not great. You "HAVE" to waste 2 extra points in duplicity because insulation doesn't work in dark charge. Yes the extra force and better stealth movement is good but its at the expense of offense.

 

2. I started this thread by looking at what is so effective about 31 darkness. Wither is great. If I am not using wither, you have replace it with something that can at least compete with wither- and for the thrasher build that is pumped up thrash and the fact that your shocks are going to be energized and hit harder more often.

 

With your proposed build I can't see what is supposed to be the core of your offense. You've gimped thrash and shock for those points in deception. Your force regen is better but much of that benefit is lost because your thrashes and shocks are more expensive and don't hit as hard.

 

This build will provide sub-standard offensive burst that opposing healers can handle. It won't provide the AE pressure and utility of 31 darknesses's combo of wither and discharge. You won't kill stuff.

 

When you play 31 darkness you realize you don't need stealth. When you play 31 deception you realize that you DO need stealth to get all that offense on target.

[ShannaRZ]

I typically play 31/0/10 but would consider a change using one of these hybrids. I will have to try them out and see what they feel like... as wither has always been a staple of my tankassin build to date.

 

My main question relates to gear. What gear/stats should I be using for PvP with the thrasher build? Standard tank gear has no crit or surge, so I hit like I'm wielding a wet noodle most of the time instead of a saberstaff.

[Hethroin]

I typically play 31/0/10 but would consider a change using one of these hybrids. I will have to try them out and see what they feel like... as wither has always been a staple of my tankassin build to date.

 

My main question relates to gear. What gear/stats should I be using for PvP with the thrasher build? Standard tank gear has no crit or surge, so I hit like I'm wielding a wet noodle most of the time instead of a saberstaff.

 

I like the hybrid spec with all 3PC Stalker, 2PC Survivor, the lower CD on the stun isn't a bad bonus to have. All armor modded with power surge and some crit. Accuracy isn't as bad as other make it out to be when you're using thrash as a main damage component.

[Delillo]

 

My main question relates to gear. What gear/stats should I be using for PvP with the thrasher build?

 

For the Thrasher build start with BM Stalker. All that Accuracy is not lost on the build because it is so melee focused.

 

Eventual plan would be to swap the high end PVE Stalker armor mods in for the PvE set bonus of +15% crit to Thrash.

[Moontayle]

Switched to this build last night. Takes some getting used to because I was so reliant on Wither and didn't worry about making sure Shock was energized just fire it off, but by the end of the evening I was getting the hang of it. Duplicity proved useful, and in lieu of any actual UI notification that Expose Weakness was up (except the buff icon), keeping force at around 50 and seeing Maul highlight because it was suddenly reduced in cost helped out.

 

It definitely is a build meant to be single target, and the thrash crits were flying across the screen last night.

[Donruud]

But im new as assassin. Now im play the 31/0/10 with full tank gear. is that wrong with tank gear or? some one say that hybrid specc with dps gear are awsome and others say hybrid spec with full tank gear are awsome. i need some help her so i know what i shall do with gear choice:)

[Donruud]

I like the hybrid spec with all 3PC Stalker, 2PC Survivor, the lower CD on the stun isn't a bad bonus to have. All armor modded with power surge and some crit. Accuracy isn't as bad as other make it out to be when you're using thrash as a main damage component.

 

What about wep? dps wep or the tankig one?

[Zimoji]

im going to try this build i have read through he guide like 3 times! its seems very good But im stuck on what pvp set to buy BM stalker or BM survivor ? ?

[Delillo]

im going to try this build i have read through he guide like 3 times! its seems very good But im stuck on what pvp set to buy BM stalker or BM survivor ? ?

 

Stalker definitely. Unless you can afford both sets and swap stalker mods into the survivor set for the survivor set bonus. In any case want the damage dealing stats.

[Kornaker]

Survivor set have a damage bonus ( +5% dps when guarding ). Recklessness, hum yeah cool 3 charge and 15sec reduction of cd...But 5% everytime is cool too. Depends of the guy who play, right?

[PeteyLo]

Why not go 27/0/14?

[Xethis]

Why not go 27/0/14?

 

This thread is 10months old bro. No need to respond to info that no longer applies to the game.