Where does our $15 a month go to?

[Gorrdan]

$15 a month for a game with barely any updates, major bugs, broken pvp systems, stale and static game world, copy and pasted core mechanics from WoW.

 

OR

 

No monthly fee for world class innovation, major fun factor, fluid and balanced combat, unique game world that is living and breathing with things going on all around you not based on what "quest" you have. EPIC 500 vs 500 vs 500 warfare combat and keep seiges.

 

Yeah.... give me Guild Wars 2 every time.

 

So where does your $15 go? on a fire thats where.

 

What a load of bull***!! some people don't know when to stop.

 

And then GW2 fans wonder why people laugh at them.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Mugo]

You are helping people keep their jobs.

 

They had a job for last 4 years. That was paid by purchasing a game. So, I see monthly fees as ability to access new content, which doesn't come. We see good PR every day, but not the release date...

[Kurfer]

Let me start by saying I love this game and I don't have a problem affording the subscription fees, but what am I paying $15 a month for?

 

Now I pulled up FY 12 financial reports for EA (since they have to post that stuff for share holders) but I gotta say I don't really know exactly how to find my answers if any one is willing to inform me. It can be found at

http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=618768

Or if I am even looking in the right place.

 

-server costs- is it justifiable in 2012 to pay a subscription fee to support and maintain the servers it runs on nowadays? Maybe back in the eq days.. (ie. early 90s)

 

-patches and content updates- are we paying for the bug fixes, balancing tweaks, and maintenance?(obviously maintenance is required after a game release) Stuff that should honestly have been fixed or taken care of before the game was released. In any other genre games tend to get updates all the time that I'm not paying for.

 

-new content- this is a little more tricky.. (almost every game that comes out with new content usually costs)I'm patiently waitin for 1.2 but how often do you think they will be coming out with new content after? Every 3 months or so?(So We're paying $45 for 1 wz and 1 new fp?) on top of possible expansion packs that we're going to most likely pay $50+ for?

 

 

Or is our monthly fee just simply to fill their wallets?(not knocking a company that's out to make money)

Also I know most f2p mmo's are garbage with cash shops but how is charging a monthly fee what makes a "good game".

Now like I said above I am a little unfamiliar with reading the FY12 reports so I could be totally wrong and it could cost that much to maintain the game, but I highly doubt it.

And lastly they just charging a monthly fee because we're willing to pay it?

 

Sorry for the grammatical errors and the sporadicness of this post.(did it on my iPhone at work..)

 

These are not a bunch of little clone boxes sitting on a rack...

 

They need to staff engineers, architects, support people. Just like any organization there is a data center to manage. Also baked into that $15.99 number are the internal costs for developers and brick/morter.

 

The bottom line is, $15.month is justified for any online service like this; if you can't understand then you probably never had a big boy IT job. (don't mean that in a bad way).

 

The average salary for a high level network architect alone is $120k/year.

 

As critical as I am of this game's development team, I know they are not all buying lambo's with our monthly money. It's slim once the financials are all said and done.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Kurfer

[Mugo]

What a load of bull***!! some people don't know when to stop.

 

And then GW2 fans wonder why people laugh at them.

 

We all are going to have a good laugh when ArenaNet sells 4 or 5* more copies than SWTOR was sold. Just wait for it. BW is not going to have so much revenue with fees included...

[Kurfer]

We all are going to have a good laugh when ArenaNet sells 4 or 5* more copies than SWTOR was sold. Just wait for it. BW is not going to have so much revenue with fees included...

 

You will probably have to inform people what ArenaNet is, most are like me and don't read underground gaming nerd magazines.

[Gorrdan]

We all are going to have a good laugh when ArenaNet sells 4 or 5* more copies than SWTOR was sold. Just wait for it. BW is not going to have so much revenue with fees included...

 

Nice strawman there bud! that is not what i was talking about in my post.

 

Silly GW2 fanboys.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Mugo]

The average salary for a high level network architect alone is $120k/year.

 

Why do you need high level infrastructure architect in "maintenance" phase? What is this guy going to architect when all high level setup of data center network is already in place?

 

Guys, stop talking about things you don't understand.

[Kurfer]

Why do you need high level infrastructure architect in "maintenance" phase? What is this guy going to architect when all high level setup of data center network is already in place?

 

Guys, stop talking about things you don't understand.

 

You are clueless,

 

You do realize their vision is to continue to operate and maintain this game right? You don't bring in network architects and then fire them after they design. They are responsible for the growth and health of this game for years to come. In BW's eyes, this game has a 8-10 year shelf life wether you agree or not.

 

You wear a paper hat to your job, I wouldn't expect you to understand big boy logic.

 

The company that manages dungeons and dragons online has more than 10 architects, some dedicated to just load balancers and application servers. I know people who have left my company to go work for them.

 

If you think there is no need for network folks to manage SWTOR then you really are clueless.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Kurfer

[Balrizangor]

I was joking as to where the money went.. i could care less.

 

The fact remains that NO ONE IS PLAYING THE DAMN GAME so yeah.. its more than the 5% that they say that is having problems. Almost everyone i know and have spoken to, some with WAY better systems that me.. and even my son with a brand new SUPER pc (1200$) cannot get the game running like it should.

 

The end fact is.. the game is dying because of issues.. and if they dont fix these issues.. it wont make it past 1.2

 

WoW made it for almost 8 years, simply because it had content and ran smoothly. Even when the content ran a little thin, people got on and pvped and played the game BECAUSE IT RAN SMOOTHLY enough to enjoy. This game runs like a pos and until they fix that for the brand new high end systems AND even for low end systems, this game will continue to die. Its a simple fact that every one has to face.

 

See, you use the term dying. I never see less than 100 on my servers fleet, well, unless it is like 2-3am, then there might only be 70-80 and I never have to wait for any PvP match longer than about 3-5 min.

 

I just don't see the 'dying' part that you do. Also, WoW, in the 1st year did not even remotely run smooth nor did it have content, we had Onyxia's lair for around 6 months, then we got Molten Core (which crashed on the rock pretty consistently) for the first month when he used one of his powers on a tank that was not in range. To this day WoW still has bugs and issues (hence the patches that fix bugs and all the posts on their forums informing them of such) ...

 

If you are gonna post how smooth and great WoW is, atleast get your information correct and post the truth. I love WoW, I played it since closed beta, until Cata I has on the front end of content (my armor is old but it is under this same account name) I just got tired of Fantasy but have no ill will towards it what-so-ever so no, this is not me being some fanboi of swtor, I'm just saying that you should make your posts honest if you want people to take them seriously.

 

Something like "Yes, WoW had its problems and growing pains, even to this day they still have issues, but there is a bunch of stuff they have done better since they got some experience under their belts when it comes to publishing an MMO that they didn't in the beginning ..." etc ....

[Mugo]

You are clueless,

 

You do realize their vision is to continue to operate and maintain this game right? You don't bring in network architects and then fire them after they design. They are responsible for the growth and health of this game for years to come. In BW's eyes, this game has a 8-10 year shelf life wether you agree or not.

 

You wear a paper hat to your job, I wouldn't expect you to understand big boy logic.

 

The company that manages dungeons and dragons online has more than 10 architects, some dedicated to just load balancers and application servers. I know people who have left my company to go work for them.

 

If you think there is no need for network folks to manage SWTOR then you really are clueless.

 

Man, you are talking about infrastructure specialists, not architects.

Please, just go to The Open Group and study a bit about IT professions before writing such nonsense around...

 

Big Boy IT... lol

[Canarith]

He has agreed to buy the game and pay for at least a month in subscription, yes. But now that 4 months later when only one new (ridiculously easy even on NM) raid and minimal bug fixes have been implemented, I think he has every right to question where his money is going.

 

No he doesn't. I am not sure why you think he does. Also, no offense, but the content on nightmare is not ridiculously easy .

 

Then I almost laughed when I read the part about him thinking that server maintenance is no longer necessary in this day and age. Is that a joke, or are you serious. Servers still require regular maintenance by real people that work real jobs over there. Remember, businesses are in business generally to make a profit.

[iRouven]

I like how a decent amount of the posts a go something like this.. "If you don't like it don't pay for it!" or "it's none of my business".(btw not once did I say I "didn't like" paying the fee) This is exactly why these companies can charge a monthly fee for a game, Because you are all willing to pay without question! (I just think most are in denial because they have been paying monthly fees for certain mmo's for so long. I'm guilty of it too.)bottom line is if the next expansion pack ended up being $100 or heck even $200 most would pay i without thinking twice... Btw I'm no just talking about swtor I'm talking about the entire MMO community.

 

Realistically you are talking about everything. Anytime you see something on sale, half price for example - do you really think they are selling it under cost right there?

 

Do you think games go f2p because they don't want/need money anymore?

 

All you are saying basically is that you think $15 is too much.

 

I think next time I'm going into a movie theater I'm gonna ask them what I'm actually paying for and why other theaters can show me the movie cheaper in two months. Plus I demand to know why the popcorn is so expensive.

[Balrizangor]

Why do you need high level infrastructure architect in "maintenance" phase? What is this guy going to architect when all high level setup of data center network is already in place?

 

Guys, stop talking about things you don't understand.

 

You seriously have no clue what you are talking about do you? You do realize that a network admins job never ends right? Networks and clusters are not a "set them up once and then walk away" kind of thing?

 

Let me guess, you do some 1st level phone support for some company and have read a couple buzzwords somewhere and think you know about puters, servers and networks right?

[Kurfer]

Man, you are talking about infrastructure specialists, not architects.

Please, just go to The Open Group and study a bit about IT professions before writing such nonsense around...

 

Big Boy IT... lol

 

You just don't know how the IT world works do you?

 

Geeksquad doesn't count junior.

 

Architects are responsible for the design and health of the network infrastructure. You really want to argue that with me junior? Are you so angry with this game that you're arguing over terminology for an industry you are not old enough to experience?

 

Go be angry somewhere else, go play Rift or whatever fantasy larper world you came from.

[bennyhana]

Realistically you are talking about everything. Anytime you see something on sale, half price for example - do you really think they are selling it under cost right there?

 

Do you think games go f2p because they don't want/need money anymore?

 

All you are saying basically is that you think $15 is too much.

 

I think next time I'm going into a movie theater I'm gonna ask them what I'm actually paying for and why other theaters can show me the movie cheaper in two months. Plus I demand to know why the popcorn is so expensive.

 

So basically you'll just pay what people are asking for whatever product you're interested in?

I guess I could go to a car lot and by that shiny new car I always wanted. The price is just like all the other models ive looked at! I drive it off the lot and the tranny falls off..Now i have to pay to get tranny fixed on top of those monthly car payments, but who cares if I was sold something brand new that isn't working properly! And now the dealership wont fix it unless i pay them.. Cause ya know it wasn't their fault in the first place..I'll just keep doing business with them cause the car so pretty.

Edited April 9, 2012 by bennyhana

[GalacticKegger]

Watch the credits next time you log in. Folks who can't watch the whole thing aren't serious about getting an honest answer to this thread's question.

[Celebrus]

They charge $15 per month because they aren't willing to pass up the opportunity of having so many idiots literally begging to give them money.

 

Could they realistically support this game without a subscription fee or on a smaller one? Sure. Plenty of games have been supported for a longer period of time with a smaller flow of money.

 

Do they want to? Hell no. The game is a cash cow, do they realistically need the sheer amount of money that they are raking in on this game simply to keep it running? No. Will the fanboys and rampant fire dousers have you believe they do? Yes. They will.

 

The bottom line is this: there are some people who are happy, in fact, would be UNHAPPY without being able to hand over their money to Bioware simply because they feel deep down inside that they are being provided a product and service that is truly worth repeat payments. Then the rest of us simply pay the fee because it's required to ENJOY the game. BW is happy to allow the minority of pleased lemmings to filter money into their account while the rest of us simply pay the fee because there is no other option if we want to enjoy this particular game.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Celebrus

[Kurfer]

They charge $15 per month because they aren't willing to pass up the opportunity of having so many idiots literally begging to give them money.

 

Could they realistically support this game without a subscription fee or on a smaller one? Sure. Plenty of games have been supported for a longer period of time with a smaller flow of money.

 

Do they want to? Hell no. The game is a cash cow, do they realistically need the sheer amount of money that they are raking in on this game simply to keep it running? No. Will the fanboys and rampant fire dousers have you believe they do? Yes. They will.

 

The bottom line is this: there are some people who are happy, in fact, would be UNHAPPY without being able to hand over their money to Bioware simply because they feel deep down inside that they are being provided a product and service that is truly worth repeat payments. Then the rest of us simply pay the fee because it's required to ENJOY the game. BW is happy to allow the minority of pleased lemmings to filter money into their account while the rest of us simply pay to get by.

 

I guess that makes you one of the idiots then? Or did your subscription "run out" ?

[Holden_Dissent]

So basically you'll just pay what people are asking for whatever product you're interested in?

I guess I could go to a used car lot and by that shiny car I always wanted, so what if it's got a couple dings and dents.. The price is just like all the other models ive looked at! I'll just pay to get those minor dings and dents fixed later! Later comes and now I have to pay to get the tranny fixed on top of those monthly car payments, but who cares if I was sold something that isn't working properly! I'll just pay to get it fixed cause I really really want it!

 

Fail analogy

[iRouven]

So basically you'll just pay what people are asking for whatever product you're interested in?

I guess I could go to a used car lot and by that shiny car I always wanted, so what if it's got a couple dings and dents.. The price is just like all the other models ive looked at! I'll just pay to get those minor dings and dents fixed later! Later comes and now I have to pay to get the tranny fixed on top of those monthly car payments, but who cares if I was sold something that isn't working properly! I'll just pay to get it fixed cause I really really want it!

 

Right, it's a pain that they don't fix and service my car for free. Funny how they also don't upgrade me to power-windows or a bigger engine down the road. Did you buy the car or are you leasing it?

[Jett-Rinn]

Never understood why they keep these bickerfest threads open.

 

[bennyhana]

Fail analogy

 

Fail response

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

[Celebrus]

I guess that makes you one of the idiots then? Or did your subscription "run out" ?

 

I'm not begging to give BW my money. A lot of you are.

 

Most of the people arguing against subscription fees (which I am not) are basing their argument around the concept that 15 dollars is too much to pay. This is a pretty shaky foundation to base your argument on as the value of 15 dollars is different for everyone that pays it, but in the end it's still just 15 dollars.

 

The people defending it are pretending like BW is a non-profit organization, simply putting all of the money into "network infrastructure blabbity blah blah blah" because they took an IT course and think they know something, when they really have no more of a clue than anyone else how the money is really split up at the end of the day.

 

When it all boils down, nobody in this thread is more of an expert on the subject than anyone else, and for any of you to come in here with your pitiful attempts at proving others wrong based on the handful of hours you spent building your home network in your free time is outrageous. Some people are practically begging to give BW their money, others are ************ about it, and the rest of us are simply paying and moving on.

 

I'm more in the middle ground between the idiots that are begging to throw money away and the idiots that think their 15 bucks is more valuable than yours. Still an idiot I suppose, but a moderate one.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Celebrus

[bennyhana]

Right, it's a pain that they don't fix and service my car for free. Funny how they also don't upgrade me to power-windows or a bigger engine down the road. Did you buy the car or are you leasing it?

 

It's too bad I payed for something that was broken and am in too much denial to admit it cause the wheels are so shiny. Did you buy a used piece of crap or a brand new 2012 model?

Edited April 9, 2012 by bennyhana

[clintcasey]

Let me start by saying I love this game and I don't have a problem affording the subscription fees, but what am I paying $15 a month for?

 

Now I pulled up FY 12 financial reports for EA (since they have to post that stuff for share holders) but I gotta say I don't really know exactly how to find my answers if any one is willing to inform me. It can be found at

http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=618768

Or if I am even looking in the right place.

 

Lets see how reasonable your posts are.

 

-server costs- is it justifiable in 2012 to pay a subscription fee to support and maintain the servers it runs on nowadays? Maybe back in the eq days.. (ie. early 90s)

 

The server archetecture for SW:TOR is most likely based on blade server technology with hot swappable components. These servers are located in a full fleshed out data center. The cost of the building the data centers (the physical buildings in at least 3 countries) and the servers themselves in the range of millions of dollars. Much of which was a cost that EA and Bioware paid upfront before the game ever went live. This doesn't include salaries of those required to upkeep the servers, which can scale up to $100,000. Server maintanence is an expensive proposition on a project the size of TOR.

 

-patches and content updates- are we paying for the bug fixes, balancing tweaks, and maintenance?(obviously maintenance is required after a game release) Stuff that should honestly have been fixed or taken care of before the game was released. In any other genre games tend to get updates all the time that I'm not paying for.

 

The premise that "this is stuff that should have been fixed before the game released" is a moot point. Any time you build a large, expansive game, bugs tend to happen. Compared to the bugs that were in Skyrim at launch the bugs present in SW:TOR are much less frequent and not nearly as game breaking. However, those issues are being addressed.

 

It is impossible to find every bug in a game this massive. Even with extensive testing a millions of people playing the game, new bugs which have likely been in the game since launch, are still being discovered.

 

-new content- this is a little more tricky.. (almost every game that comes out with new content usually costs)I'm patiently waitin for 1.2 but how often do you think they will be coming out with new content after? Every 3 months or so?(So We're paying $45 for 1 wz and 1 new fp?) on top of possible expansion packs that we're going to most likely pay $50+ for?

 

Your not getting 1 warzone and 1 flashpoint.

 

Your getting a warzone, a flashpoint, an operation, a new questing zone on Corellia, a new gear tier, the legacy system, ranked warzones, and across the board improvements to crafting systems.

 

Or is our monthly fee just simply to fill their wallets?(not knocking a company that's out to make money)

Also I know most f2p mmo's are garbage with cash shops but how is charging a monthly fee what makes a "good game".

Now like I said above I am a little unfamiliar with reading the FY12 reports so I could be totally wrong and it could cost that much to maintain the game, but I highly doubt it.

And lastly they just charging a monthly fee because we're willing to pay it?

 

Sorry for the grammatical errors and the sporadicness of this post.(did it on my iPhone at work..)

 

Well that's the problem with your premise. We're not just paying for Bioware to maintain the game. We're paying for Bioware to maintain the game, fix bugs, create new content, and with a little bit of extra money on the side, we're giving them a profit.