Crazy Spec Idea

[TGBeans]

So how would this spec do in PvP:0/21/20 with Lightning Charge.

 

I think that the spec has a lot of control in it, but I don't know about the damage output. Someone more learned want to explain why this spec is fail?

[dksocal]

I'll take a stab at it:

 

1) You don't have the talents to help your defensive cooldowns so running the ball is kinda outta the question. That is, no reduced CD on Force Speed, Speed will not break effects as well as having your Shroud be a full length CD.

 

2) No energize or harnessed darkness kind of makes chain-shock a moot point

 

3) No self heal through Force Lightning

 

4) No Wither or Force Pull to close distance or keep targets in melee range.

 

5) No +Endurance or +Defense

 

6) No passive force regen other than from 6s stealth.

 

7) Death field is a mediocre ability at best

 

 

You are basically sacrificing the best things from the trees to pick up the add-ons which boost the key talents you are leaving out. i.e:

 

Harnessed Darkness + Energize + Chain Shock and Recklessness gives you huge burst for opening rotations.

 

Harnessed Darkness + Force Lightning gives you an uninterruptable self heal for 12% HP returned if it goes the distance

[mrHaterade]

So what dksocal is basically saying is that you should use Darkness. You can ignore him.

 

Since I'm Madness and used to use Deception I'll give you my $0.02. First off, you don't need Recirculation because Crackling Charge makes Discharge an instant. Assuming you'll always be in Lightning Charge that is. Second, Deception always felt pretty Force-starved to me. There's the initial burst from Dark Embrace, but that's not gonna carry your very far when you're dropping dots on everyone around you. This is where Calculating Mind proves its worth.

 

The extra CC from Low Slash is nice and all, but realistically it'll only last a second or two since you should have your dots up at all times. That's why we get the extra two second stun on Whirlwind. So with Low Slash, you're basically giving your enemy free resolve.

 

All in all this looks like it's primarily a hit & run spec. Sneak in, drop a Death Field from 30m, drop some dots, stun 'em and slow 'em, then run away. Otherwise you'll just be dying a lot since you don't have the extra dots or the increased healing.

[Pinkspawn]

He asked about the damage output guys, not what spec he should play.

 

I haven't tried the build, but I think you're missing out on a bunch of talent points in both the trees.

 

By trying to dot people for madness in lightning spec, you miss out on the crazy burst of surging charge in deception. You also don't have Creeping Terror, Creeping Death, or Death Mark, which all contribute to how much your dots hit for and overall how effective they are.

 

So you don't have dot power, and you don't have enough burst to go deception. I personally don't think this build would not do a lot of damage.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Pinkspawn
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[TGBeans]

All in all this looks like it's primarily a hit & run spec.

 

This is kinda what I wanted to make. On my server there are a lot of healers on the Republic that just sit in corners and spam heals. That said they never have any guard or peels with them so if you even look at them funny they run away and spam heals to keep themselves alive. (I cannot kill these healers as either Madness nor Deception, and especially not as Darkness.)

 

As I run with my guild for most of the wzs, I tried to make a spec that would would basically be a complete interrupt spec. My teammates would confront enemies, I would sneak to the healer hiding in the wings. From there I would interrupt, slow, and pester the crap out of the healer hoping it would either kill him, or force his focus away long enough for my team to get the objective.

 

Now with a little more information you have any more helpful tips Mr. Haterade?

[dksocal]

So what dksocal is basically saying is that you should use Darkness. You can ignore him.

.

 

He asked why it was fail. I gave him some very valid points from my own experience. I've never played anything but 31/0/10. However I've seen some very successful hybrid 'Sins.

 

All of the lower-tier talents he chose synergize better with talents he's neglected to take from other trees for the most part.

 

 

What's your bread and butter going to be or even your staple attack?

 

Maul costs 50 force (25 with proc) and has a positional requirement so you're out of Force rather quickly which leaves no room for a shock, deathfield or thrash. Death Field has a cost on par with Wither, but it does not slow and has a CD that is twice as long and is a targeted ability rather than target based. It also only heals you for 3% health, one time as opposed to FL's 12% and Overcharge's 5%.

 

If you want a niche for this spec I'd say its probably best off holding a node and CCing people to allow your team time to gather and attack or focus an objective or to lock down healers since you have reduced CD's on your interrupts.

Edited April 4, 2012 by dksocal

[darkenwolf]

Personally I would get rid of Low Slash and really think hard about the following:

 

50% regen while stealthed. This means you can effectively stance dance *between* fights so that you can adjust if you need more burst or more pressure depending on your target.

 

I'd reshuffle your points around using that as a strategic theme.

 

Bearing that in mind, I'm doubtful of its effectiveness on paper. I'd have to try it out to say for sure, but I feel like its just missing too much. I'd also expect to be pretty force starved.

 

I love creative outside of the box specs, so I want to like it, but I'm doubtful without playing it. It'll definitely require its own playstyle.

[mrHaterade]

I tried to make a spec that would would basically be a complete interrupt spec. My teammates would confront enemies, I would sneak to the healer hiding in the wings. From there I would interrupt, slow, and pester the crap out of the healer hoping it would either kill him, or force his focus away long enough for my team to get the objective.

 

Now with a little more information you have any more helpful tips Mr. Haterade?

I would say, give this a try: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIMoZG0bZcMforrkM.1

 

You get the interrupts as before, but instead of vanishing every two minutes, you can turbo boost every 20 seconds which also cleanses any roots or snares. You also get the extra damage and Force regen from your dots (not to mention Lightning Reflexes).

[darkenwolf]

Out of curiosity, have you tried Lightning Reflexes? I've always dismissed it out of hand, but I've been thinking about swapping in the two points from Thrashing Blades just to try it out.

[cupofwater]

I play a madness sin when not going darkness. The gain from going 21 into lightning is no where near the loss in amount of dps from skipping out on the later talents from the madness tree. The hybrid is a nice idea but would be not work imo. Just stick with 31 madness for dot spec'd assassins.

 

Also if you haven't played anything but the 31/xx/10 why even respond to this thread? You have no experience in any other area of sin pvp.

[mrHaterade]

Hey Cup, did you read what the op was asking and why? He wants a Hit & Run spec to harass healers and run interference, not necessarily "top the charts" or kill everything that moves. Also, what the hell are you talking about 31/xx/suchandsuch? Since when was the cookie cutter a "Crazy Spec Idea?" Did you reply to the wrong thread or something?

 

Darkenwolf, no sir, I have not used Lightning Reflexes. From what I've read it's a good talent, but I haven't confirmed it myself.

Edited April 5, 2012 by mrHaterade

[TGBeans]

Mr. Haterade I like that spec a lot. I ignored the talents in Darkness thinking they are too tank-y for my idea, completely forgetting about how awesome Disjunction is. I'll switch over to that tonight and report back on how well it does in a few days.

[mrHaterade]

Mr. Haterade I like that spec a lot. I ignored the talents in Darkness thinking they are too tank-y for my idea, completely forgetting about how awesome Disjunction is. I'll switch over to that tonight and report back on how well it does in a few days.

Godspeed, brother. Tell those sorcs I said hello.

[dksocal]

Also if you haven't played anything but the 31/xx/10 why even respond to this thread? You have no experience in any other area of sin pvp.

 

Because I can read and understand the information from the talents and then formulate from that how I'd use the class? In fact, most of the skills used in ANY of the various specs are commonplace regardless of talent selection save for a few abilities.

 

You picked up a Maul-based talent? well gee, there is only one way to use that, behind somebody and with +stealth I guess I think it makes sense to jump people, CC with them low slash and Slow and then use the same abilities nearly ever 'Sin uses.

 

 

That being said, I like haterades' edits to the spec. I think it gives you a lot more up-time when doing your hitting until you do your running. With that spec you should be able to effectively lock down those Sorcs that love to wait and free cast thinking nobody notices them.

Edited April 5, 2012 by dksocal

[Sengar]

Pull those wimpy healers into a pack of your friends. Truthfully force pull works wonders against healers

[Sulvan]

Here is my idea go 31/0/10 then get dps armor and weapons trust me sounds crazy but i know assassins who do it and they are really strong.

 

If not that go 0/10/31 get the 2 piece stalker and 2 piece force master for your sin. You get the heals and you will get a couple of nice passives from deception. The 4 piece set is never worth it in my opinon.

[cupofwater]

Hey Cup, did you read what the op was asking and why? He wants a Hit & Run spec to harass healers and run interference, not necessarily "top the charts" or kill everything that moves. Also, what the hell are you talking about 31/xx/suchandsuch? Since when was the cookie cutter a "Crazy Spec Idea?" Did you reply to the wrong thread or something?

 

Darkenwolf, no sir, I have not used Lightning Reflexes. From what I've read it's a good talent, but I haven't confirmed it myself.

 

When did he say this? He asked why his build was fail, and I told him the net gain from 21 points into lightning would be terrible compared to the net gain in going full madness or full deception. Just because your interpretation of his build (which was all he posted) was hit and run does not make it so. Did you read what the OP was asking?

 

I'm really interested in how these "hit and run" tactics are going to work in pvp... sure you'll annoy the healer but you will never have a enough burst to take down any decent healer. (Half the healers in my guild would laugh at a sin running this spec trying to dps him)

 

About the Darkness build I was simply stating if you have not pvp'd in any other spec, you should not be giving people tips on the dps aspects of assassin game play (this is just common sense). This was not directed at you but at the guy who was stating this build was bad because you are not a tank assassin.

 

 

I'll take a stab at it:

 

1) You don't have the talents to help your defensive cooldowns so running the ball is kinda outta the question. That is, no reduced CD on Force Speed, Speed will not break effects as well as having your Shroud be a full length CD.

 

2) No energize or harnessed darkness kind of makes chain-shock a moot point

 

3) No self heal through Force Lightning

 

4) No Wither or Force Pull to close distance or keep targets in melee range.

 

5) No +Endurance or +Defense

 

6) No passive force regen other than from 6s stealth.

 

7) Death field is a mediocre ability at best

 

 

You are basically sacrificing the best things from the trees to pick up the add-ons which boost the key talents you are leaving out. i.e:

 

Harnessed Darkness + Energize + Chain Shock and Recklessness gives you huge burst for opening rotations.

 

Harnessed Darkness + Force Lightning gives you an uninterruptable self heal for 12% HP returned if it goes the distance

 

EVERY SINGLE reason you gave was because this ability in the darkness tree is better. This may have not been what you meant but this is exactly what you said. Honestly your post has ZERO relevance to the damage aspect of assassin game play.

 

 

Now back at the OP, I strongly recommend you try this build out. Why not? Do not let anyone on the forums tell you that some build is fail... find out on your own trial and error.

After this I recommend going one of the pure builds (Any of the assassin trees can exceed in pvp) but they are each a lot different in game play.

Edited April 6, 2012 by cupofwater

[Neovag]

Sorry, but I 100% agree with Dksocal and everyone who is simply bashing him for subversively promoting darkness is just being single minded. Darkness itself has nothing to do with it, he's raising some perfectly valid criticisms. The spec above is basically an attempt to make an operative out of an assassin. If you want a high risk, high yield stealth burst class, roll an operative instead. We're designed to have far more control, utility and options; That is what the spec does not give. So you want to napalm a healer, great. What happens if he roots you? You don't have force speed talented, so you're screwed. You don't have force shroud's nerfed cooldown either, so that's not an option... all you can do is stand there and die, due to the lack of survivability. You're basing everything on the off chance that everything comes together for you and that's going to happen very rarely, in a warzone situation, especially in rated. Why would your ops leader take you to rated, over an equally geared operative? He'd have to be your best man or being heavily bribed to do so. You are passing up on far too many much better talents, for the sake of the possibility of better dps. It's simply not a worthy trade off, either for you, or your team.

 

Don't try and play a class you're not.

[mrHaterade]

When did he say this?

 

Right here:

All in all this looks like it's primarily a hit & run spec.

This is kinda what I wanted to make.

 

No biggy, you just gotta read the whole thread first.

[Duaragon]

Lol calling best sin AOE dmg [and most dmg hitting one ability on top of that] a "mediocore skill"... kinda funny.

Death Field in madness tree [the 31 madness build for a dot sin] is the hardest hitting skill sin posses, 3-4k dmg on crit [and u can crit with 100% chance thanks to recklesness], compared to 3 stacked harnessed darkness lightning it outscores it quite easly [not only u hit 2 death fields in time u can shoot the 2 x 3 stacked hd lightnings, but the lightning itself is a energy damage, that is heavy reduced by the armor rating and overall dmg reduction, and DF is internal damage that is very tiny reduced]

 

Not to emntion DF puts deathmarks that when consumed dealivers more dot dmg and restore force.

 

The conclusion - the guy who said death field is mediocore skill obviously never played anything except his dark sin he is so fascinated with [not like the dark sin spec is bad, but when somebody seened just one side of a coin he should not describe things he have no idea about]