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Proof that the 5m aoe radius is not intentional by original design.


Dvander

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If you run for example, a Trooper's animation for the aoe Mortar Volley - you get the blue icon on the ground, along with an expanding outer red ring once the animation is placed and on the ground, going through its animation. Here is the catch - the mirror class Bounty Hunter, does not have this mirrored ring in its AOE place holders, only the Trooper, which suggests that it is in fact the Trooper that was designed first.

 

So, the Trooper animations initially have a blue icon on the ground (also for the level 13 or 14 area of effect skill, the one without a cooldown), but then it also has a RED RING, which EXPANDS to the correct 8-meter area radius that is standard to every other class' area damage. This is pretty important in my view, as the proposed changes seem to be a way of dealing with the seeming incorrect visual by tuning the class as opposed to putting the additional work into correcting the animation - for the Bounty Hunter class. The Trooper's animations are correct and they correctly correspond to the area affect by the expanding RED RING. The Bounty Hunter has no such additional visual cue to indicate the skill's area of effect after placement.

 

Please devs, do not make the radius 5 meters just because it would be harder work to implement the same expanding red ring for the Bounty Hunter - if it doesn't closely correspond, just leave it alone for later - it is unfair for this class to have a 5 meter AOE when every other class gets 8 meters, not to mention this class is prone to the most ridiculous knock backs that it actually needs every meter it can get - even that is not enough, but feels okay for now. It does not need changing.

 

Furthermore, it just seems like some different team is working on balance rather than the original coders - who clearly implemented an 8 meter animation in place for the Trooper, if not for the Bounty Hunter.

 

And just to add, what will happen to the current Trooper animation of the expanding red ring around the blue targeting reticule one the animation has been placed and is active? If it no longer has the intended radius, it will look stupid - and it will make no sense.

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well with the AOE range reduction on DFA/mortar volley in conjunction with the changed knockback effect, DFA now knocks PvE mobs outside the AOE radius. brilliant design choice

 

That's the point. They are doing "clean up" on skills to make them more tightly fit their respective animations, unfortunately for Death From Above, that meant reducing its effective radius to 5 meters to match its animation.

 

There is absolutely no design motive for doing this proposed "tune" other than for correcting animations.

 

This is proven in the Trooper's version of Mortar Volley - the expanding red ring, which you do not initially see, tells you right there in bright flashing red, that this skill's intended range is greater than its smaller placeholder. It is designed to be 8 meters.

 

I hope that by bringing attention to this issue this so called "clean up" will be withdrawn as it negatively impacts the class and, by original design, is meant and visually indicated to 8 meters in the Trooper's skill set, if not the Bounty Hunter's.

 

The Bounty Hunter's animations should be updated to that of the Trooper's to include the expanding red ring to visually indicated the skill's greater range of effect than otherwise evident.

 

You don't nerf the class to match the animation. Seriously, that is bad design.

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Did anyone claim 5m was the original design?

 

The proposed changes in 1.2 claim this, apparently. There is no reason given for them, so it is safe to assume it is done to correct animation imbalance.

 

But if you look at the evidence, the Trooper clearly shows this is not the original design intent.

(ie, a 5m aoe is not intended)

Edited by Dvander
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This is the reason Trooper AOE has been nerfed to 5 meters:

Note, that it has nothing to do with balancing the class.

 

Big bold, from the original 1.2 patch notes as they first hit on the 16th.

Visual effects for persistent ground-targeted player attacks now reflect the target area of effect more accurately.

 

To that I say, bad job Bioware, the Trooper's ground-targeted attacks properly and clearly reflect 8 meters due to an expanding RED RING. Perhaps you should have updated the Bounty Hunter animations as well, instead of butchering the functionality of the class? Hmm Bioware?

 

Anyone else want to chime in on this?...

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The change said: "Death From Above now has a 5-meter radius to bring its range in line with other Bounty Hunter Area of Effect abilities"

 

Specifically, Fusion Missile and Sweeping Blasters are both 5 meter AoE.

 

Not sure what the trooper versions are named, but I would assume the same logic applies.

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Screenshot Mortar Volley RED RING indicating 8 meter intended animation on live.

 

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/8r2ll.jpg

 

Tell me Bioware, why did this need changing?

 

1.2 Patch Notes: General: Visual effects for persistent ground-targeted player attacks now reflect the target area of effect more accurately.

 

It's changes like this that make people lose faith in you, and generally tells that you don't have command of the game yet.

 

--

 

(Full size, I hope: http://www.freeimagehosting.net/8r2ll)

Edited by Dvander
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The change said: "Death From Above now has a 5-meter radius to bring its range in line with other Bounty Hunter Area of Effect abilities"

 

Specifically, Fusion Missile and Sweeping Blasters are both 5 meter AoE.

 

Not sure what the trooper versions are named, but I would assume the same logic applies.

 

Fusion Missile is definately not the same range as Sweeping Blasters.

 

Sweeping Blasters is equivalent to the Trooper Hail of Bolts. What you don't understand is, that Hail of Bolts has an 8 meter radius as indicated by the expanding red circle in the Trooper's animation, which is also present on Mortar Volley.

 

Bounty Hunter animation, does not.

 

I play both, so the visual did not effect me as I am used to the Trooper's visual cue.

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Fusion Missile is definately not the same range as Sweeping Blasters.

 

Sweeping Blasters is equivalent to the Trooper Hail of Bolts. What you don't understand is, that Hail of Bolts has an 8 meter radius as indicated by the expanding red circle in the Trooper's animation, which is also present on Mortar Volley.

 

Bounty Hunter animation, does not.

 

I play both, so the visual did not effect me as I am used to the Trooper's visual cue.

 

Mortar Volley's animation has been updated. In addition, it now has a 5-meter radius to bring its range in line with other Trooper Area of Effect abilities and it now begins its damage sooner after activation.

 

is reading really that hard?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056

Edited by iceperson
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lol OP, u sho'd dem devs. derp derp :rolleyes:

 

Not sure if trolling...

 

Did you read the changes in General?

Visual effects for persistent ground-targeted player attacks now reflect the target area of effect more accurately.

 

Did you see the Trooper screenshot for Mortar Volley? I'm guessing maybe not.

 

Hail of Bolts, also has a red ring around it indicating 8 meters, NOT 5 meters.

 

Bounty Hunter has no red ring around the original placeholder to indicate anything but what is assumingly a 5m area. Sweeping Blasters as well, but this is not the case as in evidence of the Trooper for original design intent.

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Or you could read the tooltips.

 

Fusion Missile: Range: 30m, Fires a fusion missile that detonates on contact, dealing x-y damage to up to 3 targets within 5 meters....

 

Sweeping Blasters: Range 30m, Fires waves of blaster bolts at up to 5 targets within 5 meters of the target area....

 

 

They have the same range, same radius.

 

Now DfA does as well.

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Ah yes, tooltips.

 

Tooltips are the last to be updated and usually the most in error when lots of changes take place. The Trooper animations clearly show 8 meters for both Hail of Bolts and Mortar Volley, hence my "proof" that in the original design intent, they were meant to be at this range.

 

The changes quote:

"Visual effects for persistent ground-targeted player attacks now reflect the target area of effect more accurately."

 

from the 1.2 patch notes, regardless of their claims on the specifics, show that at Bioware, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. In other words, they have little command of the game and what abilities are/were supposed to be doing.

 

In any case, most players that play Troopers know the changes are idiotic - the moment the knock back takes effect, they are knocked out of the area of the effect.

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Ah yes, tooltips.

 

Tooltips are the last to be updated and usually the most in error when lots of changes take place. The Trooper animations clearly show 8 meters for both Hail of Bolts and Mortar Volley, hence my "proof" that in the original design intent, they were meant to be at this range.

 

The changes quote:

"Visual effects for persistent ground-targeted player attacks now reflect the target area of effect more accurately."

 

from the 1.2 patch notes, regardless of their claims on the specifics, show that at Bioware, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. In other words, they have little command of the game and what abilities are/were supposed to be doing.

 

In any case, most players that play Troopers know the changes are idiotic - the moment the knock back takes effect, they are knocked out of the area of the effect.

 

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

 

Mortar Volley's animation has been updated. In addition, it now has a 5-meter radius to bring its range in line with other Trooper Area of Effect abilities and it now begins its damage sooner after activation.
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I don't care what Hail of Bolts' visual cue is, its DEFINITELY only a 5m radius. Try Mortar Volleying a group, then using Hail of Bolts (a fresh 50 commando on illum can do this to a group of normals without Mortar Volley killing everything). Hail of Bolts doesn't hit everyone.

 

 

 

I hate the radius reduction, but it is what it is.

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I don't care what Hail of Bolts' visual cue is, its DEFINITELY only a 5m radius. Try Mortar Volleying a group, then using Hail of Bolts (a fresh 50 commando on illum can do this to a group of normals without Mortar Volley killing everything). Hail of Bolts doesn't hit everyone.

 

 

 

I hate the radius reduction, but it is what it is.

 

That's because Mortar Volley has already knocked everyone out of position by the time you use Hail of Bolts. You need much better placement and estimation to try hitting everyone than when you started with Mortar Volley.

 

If anything, the radius of Mortar Volley should be left as is, and Hail of Bolts increased by 1m or so. But that's not gonna happen.

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If the issue was the bounty hunter 'Death from above' Animation was small, thus needed a nerf ...

 

Why not increase the base Animation by 40% making it 8M from 5M?

 

That wasn't the issue. The 'issue' was that DfA/MV had an 8m radius, and the other AoE attacks had a 5m. The 'issue' has been fixed, and all of them now have a 5m radius.

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My question is: Why change the AoE radius? I don't PvP, so not sure if it's an issue there. I don't raid either, so no tank to round-up the mobs to burn them down. I do mostly world, solo PvE, and groups of mobs sure are spaced out more than 5 meters(most times), and this is going to make it near useless for me.
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That wasn't the issue. The 'issue' was that DfA/MV had an 8m radius, and the other AoE attacks had a 5m. The 'issue' has been fixed, and all of them now have a 5m radius.

 

Stop spreading mis-information. There was never an 'issue' with Mortar Volley radius or Bounty Hunter Death From Above. The only 'issue' there was, was that Mortar Volley only began its animation 2 seconds into the channel.

 

Let's compare.

 

Agent Orbital Strike: 8m radius. (1 minute cooldown)

Sage Force Quake: 8m radius. (no cooldown)

Knight Force Sweep: 5m radius. (15 second cooldown)

 

Trooper Mortar Volley: ..5m radius. (1 minute cooldown)

 

Not to mention, the ability animations on live are for 8 meters. Just ridiculous.

 

Standard AOE range is 8m radius. Spammable AOE range is 5m. Unless you're a Sorc/Sage, they got no cooldown but 100 force cost so they can't technically spam it but they can 'dump' it.

 

Trooper change, makes no sense, is out of line with the rest of the classes, and out of line with current animations - or is it (!) - only Bioware really know.

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My question is: Why change the AoE radius? I don't PvP, so not sure if it's an issue there. I don't raid either, so no tank to round-up the mobs to burn them down. I do mostly world, solo PvE, and groups of mobs sure are spaced out more than 5 meters(most times), and this is going to make it near useless for me.

 

No, it just changes from an opening salvo.

 

Grab a group, LoS them so they're bunched up more, and hit them.

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Stop spreading mis-information. There was never an 'issue' with Mortar Volley radius or Bounty Hunter Death From Above. The only 'issue' there was, was that Mortar Volley only began its animation 2 seconds into the channel.

 

Let's compare.

 

Agent Orbital Strike: 8m radius. (1 minute cooldown)

Sage Force Quake: 8m radius. (no cooldown)

Knight Force Sweep: 5m radius. (15 second cooldown)

 

Trooper Mortar Volley: ..5m radius. (1 minute cooldown)

 

Not to mention, the ability animations on live are for 8 meters. Just ridiculous.

 

Standard AOE range is 8m radius. Spammable AOE range is 5m. Unless you're a Sorc/Sage, they got no cooldown but 100 force cost so they can't technically spam it but they can 'dump' it.

 

Trooper change, makes no sense, is out of line with the rest of the classes, and out of line with current animations - or is it (!) - only Bioware really know.

 

I'm not spreading mis-information. I suggest you learn that a word in quotes is being said sarcastically.

 

And yes, let's compare.

 

Agent Orbital Strike (learned at 48)

Sorc Force Storm (learned at 34)

DfA/MV (learned at 10)

 

See, I can pick and choose parts of the skill to show how it needed to be changed too. Also, nobody cares what the animation on live is. It's got a new animation in 1.2, so it's current one is irrelevant.

 

It's in-line with the rest of the classes AoE skills, which is what the patch notes say is the reason behind the change.

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