Valor<50 -- Why PvP Prior to 1.2?

[Cyphedeous]

Bravo to the OP. I'm actually surprised that no one posted about this sooner.

 

To your pundits:

 

By the time 1.2 hits I will have 2 additional alts leveled to 50 and ready to buy Recruit gear. After which I will easily get my War Hero gear for my main and alts. Then I will roflstomp you in open PVP with my choice of 50 level characters. Now that is fun!

[Varicite]

Bravo to the OP. I'm actually surprised that no one posted about this sooner.

 

To your pundits:

 

By the time 1.2 hits I will have 2 additional alts leveled to 50 and ready to buy Recruit gear. After which I will easily get my War Hero gear for my main and alts. Then I will roflstomp you in open PVP with my choice of 50 level characters. Now that is fun!

 

It just really seems like a non-issue that the OP is making a big deal about.

 

Just buy the new gear when it comes out; I would think someone w/ so little time to play would be ecstatic about being able to compete w/ the same gear as everyone else right off the bat.

 

Who cares about the gear you have being removed, you got to use it when it was relevant and the stats were relevant. It wasn't a waste of your time if you enjoyed the time playing the game; that is literally the entire point of playing this game, not keeping your gear forever.

 

Like I said, my BM mods won't be updated because I did exactly what BW said to do, and I'm not upset about it. I'll just buy the new set if I need to.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[Graushwein]

My response to the above poster: "Thank you for your rational and meaningful response, and I am trying to get over it. I was wondering what would happen if you changed your armor mods... That does suck. Please know that I am sincere in that I wish that I had as much available gaming time as you imply you have, so that I could so swiftly recover from the, soon to be, decreased effectiveness of my current PvP gear.

 

Bravo to the OP. I'm actually surprised that no one posted about this sooner.

 

To your pundits:

 

By the time 1.2 hits I will have 2 additional alts leveled to 50 and ready to buy Recruit gear. After which I will easily get my War Hero gear for my main and alts. Then I will roflstomp you in open PVP with my choice of 50 level characters. Now that is fun!

 

I am taking down names here in hopes that I'll see some of them when cross-server pvp arrives!

Edited April 4, 2012 by Graushwein

[NDiggy]

It just really seems like a non-issue that the OP is making a big deal about.

 

Just buy the new gear when it comes out; I would think someone w/ so little time to play would be ecstatic about being able to compete w/ the same gear as everyone else right off the bat.

 

Who cares about the gear you have being removed, you got to use it when it was relevant and the stats were relevant. It wasn't a waste of your time if you enjoyed the time playing the game; that is literally the entire point of playing this game, not keeping your gear forever.

 

Like I said, my BM mods won't be updated because I did exactly what BW said to do, and I'm not upset about it. I'll just buy the new set if I need to.

 

Why do people with BM gear get to keep it while everyone else has to go back to using gear that has a lower rating on it then what they currently wear? This is the one sticking point I have. Why are people with BM gear being treated differently than the rest of us? Its not like the gear takes skill to get. All you need is time and a little bit of luck with RNG to complete the BM set. Why is it being updated when all the other gear isnt? Won't this just further widen the gap between those with and those without BM gear? If BW wants to do a gear reset for the pre-season so that everyone is on even footing gearwise isn't that the one thing they should avoid doing?

 

FYI, if you kept you're old mods you can swap them back in and your BM gear will get the updated stats.

[TDRedmage]

Ah, the formulaic "If you don't like one small thing then you should rage-quit." Truly, ignorance is bliss. It must be so nice to not think about how much you don't understand.

 

An actual point in support of your stance that almost contains logical progression! This one has potential. I'm going to have to start watching out for your posts.

 

 

TDRedmage

Do you have BM gear?

 

 

The topic has to do with spectrum of player effort is treated fairly with respect to the PvP gear echelons in the event of a system change. Feel free to try again.

 

Ooh, a conditional statement! But let me give you a tip, try not to be so obvious when you contradict yourself, refrencing that last sentence. You previously admitted that you are aware that the sub-BM gear will be of less worth and to just buy the recruit armor and work towards the improved BM gear. But now you are saying that the types of gear are in the same boat/situation. People tend to stop putting stock into your words when you contradict yourself.

 

Wow, I can't argue with that logic... Oh, except for the fact that your words are not relevant.

 

 

+10. And a thank you to the others, like Sorcerix and me, that agree with the Mensa ideals!

 

You quoted Jestunhi's post exampling WOW's not doing this, then went on to say all MMOs do this without support. Did your special reasoning abilities confound you to the point that you didn't even notice that you've made no sense and contradicted yourself at the same time?

 

 

Woah champ, what about that whole forum topic about not having the Valor to get BM gear... Nah, that is completely irrelevant.

 

 

dulfy.net

 

And 4% damage/reduction/healing due to Expertise values obviously doesn't matter.

 

 

Actually, the OP never said any such thing. It is actually scoped and limited to a specific aspect of the current PvP reward system versus the upcoming changes with respect to time spent attaining pre BM gear. Thanks for playing though!

 

 

So let me get this straight. Pre-BM geared people will see their time/effort devalued because that gear is negatively affected by the Expertise system changes and recruit gear. However BM geared people will have their's updated to be in line with the new system/gear. Yep, clearly there is no penalization there genius!

 

 

 

Project much? Wow, where in the OP, or any of my posts, did you get that? It isn't there! You should start looking for a therapist now...

 

 

WHile you were mocking with the giant blue text, your actual words were attempting to address the topic with a perspective that you've maintained throughout multiple posts in this thread. But now you say that this statement was done in a mocking manner, implying that you mean the oposite of what the statement tries to convey. That is great to hear radbass! I'm glad to see that you are at least capable of compromise or admitting you were wrong, even if it was by accident!

 

 

Agreed, PvP for us is pretty pointless untill 1.2.

 

+10

 

You would probably have a lot more time to play if you didn't make posts like this.

 

Furthermore the notion you're bemoaning the lack of meaningful conversation and yet continue to engage the people you're complaining about completely nullifies your point.

 

To answer your question, I have full BM gear, and have for quite a while. I keep playing because gear is not the reason I play. In your hypothetical question, no, I would not stop or hold off playing just because gear is being adjusted.

 

Of course you'll use the fact I have full BM to make some sort of "you don't care because you already have the awesome gear" argument. I can tell you that isn't true, and if you don't trust that the what was the point of your thread at all?

 

I play a healer spec, so the notion I have some sort of "elite status" is also null and void.

 

I play for fun, and wonder why even bother to make this thread if gear is as little a concern as you claim.

Edited April 4, 2012 by TDRedmage

[VoidJustice]

Vanilla wow's release date: November 2004.

 

Burning Crusade's release date: January 2007.

 

That means it took over two years for myself and others to level to 60 and deplete the content of vanilla wow AND for Blizzard's response to it to come.

 

It took those same people less than half a year to do the same to SWToR. Lets just be polite and say the game is "lacking".

 

Wow never looked at it like that... good point...

 

However, if you started Wow level 1 right now how long would it take you to get to 60?

 

I hate to say it but, the more I play this game the more I miss Wow...

 

(here comes the hate...)

 

in my defence Im here because I LOVE STARWARS SCIFI and can not stomach anymore elves, dwarves or fantasy... been there done that have a drawerfull of t-shirts.

Edited April 4, 2012 by VoidJustice

[NDiggy]

You would probably have a lot more time to play if you didn't make posts like this.

 

Further more the notion you're moaning the lack of meaningful conversation and yet continue to engage the people you're complaining about completely nullifies your point.

 

To answer your question, I have full BM gear, and have for quite a while. I keep playing because gear is not the reason I play. In your hypothetical question, no, I would not stop or hold off playing just because gear is being adjusted. I play for fun, and wonder why even bother to make this thread if gear is as little a concern as you claim.

 

For those of us without full BM gear, getting new gear is a HUGE concern. Gear is what puts us on even footing with other players in the pvp arena. Gear makes our character more powerful and effective in pvp. For those of us not in BM gear, grinding out WZs to get that gear just so we don't get blown away by those that do have that gear is a huge concern.

 

Yes, pvp is fun, but it is most fun when its fair. And its only fair when no one has a gear advantage. The OP doesn't see a reason to continue to pvp until 1.2 because he cannot close that gear gap before the patch and any gear he could earn will be made irrelevant by the new Recruit set. Its not fun getting farmed by people in full BM gear when you're still rocking mostly champion gear with a few cent pieces knowing that you can't close that gear gap before 1.2 launches.

[VoidJustice]

Im agnostic. A month or two of grinding to get to max gear is really nothing. I'd also be ok with everyone being equal in a Pvp game of skill.

 

What really eats my cake is that I just made it to valor 60 and that was a grind (not a bad one... but still). So now, I have centurion gear which is useless, some champion gear which... may possibly be useless real soon... and some BM ear pieces and stuff which will soon be... meh... meanwhile... some newb 50 at valor 40 will be instantly at my level and the BM's / Warhearo's that have been wiping the floor with me will boost back out to untouchable with new gear...

 

the kicker is that on my server there's a serious lack of republic skill and with the forethcoming nerf to gains for losing ... umnnn... it's gonna take EVEN LONGER TO MAKE THE BM I NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS HELL.

 

Not to mention general population causes Wz to pop every hour and with all the segmentation between rated non rated and super duper que's... how long will it take to even get in a game your gonna lose ...

 

wth... how is that fair.

Edited April 4, 2012 by VoidJustice

[NDiggy]

Wow never looked at it like that... good point...

 

However, if you started Wow level 1 right now how long would it take you to get to 60?

 

I hate to say it but, the more I play this game the more I miss Wow...

 

(here comes the hate...)

 

in my defence Im here because I LOVE STARWARS SCIFI and can not stomach anymore elves, dwarves or fantasy... been there done that have a drawerfull of t-shirts.

 

I wouldn't say I miss WoW, but i do appreciate more some of the things they did right, so I certainly won't throw stones at you. I still think the game went downhill when they let Ghostcrawler and the rest of the B-team take over handing development, and regardless of what happens here in TOR I won't be going back.

[Varicite]

Why do people with BM gear get to keep it while everyone else has to go back to using gear that has a lower rating on it then what they currently wear? This is the one sticking point I have. Why are people with BM gear being treated differently than the rest of us? Its not like the gear takes skill to get. All you need is time and a little bit of luck with RNG to complete the BM set. Why is it being updated when all the other gear isnt? Won't this just further widen the gap between those with and those without BM gear? If BW wants to do a gear reset for the pre-season so that everyone is on even footing gearwise isn't that the one thing they should avoid doing?

 

FYI, if you kept you're old mods you can swap them back in and your BM gear will get the updated stats.

 

I know, but I didn't keep the old mods because I didn't need 51 Accuracy x5 in any way, shape, or form. :c

 

I do understand the gripe that BM gear is being kept, while Cent/Champ is being removed. I thought they should have just made new sets entirely.

 

Recruit > Gladiator > War Hero, or something like that.

[Varicite]

For those of us without full BM gear, getting new gear is a HUGE concern. Gear is what puts us on even footing with other players in the pvp arena. Gear makes our character more powerful and effective in pvp. For those of us not in BM gear, grinding out WZs to get that gear just so we don't get blown away by those that do have that gear is a huge concern.

 

Yes, pvp is fun, but it is most fun when its fair. And its only fair when no one has a gear advantage. The OP doesn't see a reason to continue to pvp until 1.2 because he cannot close that gear gap before the patch and any gear he could earn will be made irrelevant by the new Recruit set. Its not fun getting farmed by people in full BM gear when you're still rocking mostly champion gear with a few cent pieces knowing that you can't close that gear gap before 1.2 launches.

 

That's actually why it's so easy to get the new set. Can you not afford 320k after like 1 day of saving credits?

 

This doesn't make any sense for the current discussion, because he's complaining about the new gear that is so easy to obtain being better than what he's wearing currently.

 

It's the EXACT SAME complaint that BMs made when the changes to Valor went through, it's the same complaint that people made when changes were made to Champ/BM bags, etc.

 

"I don't want you to have the same level stuff as me, because it was harder when I had to do it".

 

I didn't sympathize then, and I don't really sympathize w/ this sentiment now. In fact, the OP hasn't even spent the time to get to full Champ, but he's still complaining about it. He's losing a LOT less than most people who are perfectly happy w/ the change.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[Rehneu]

For fun... remember? That's why you play video games in the first place.

 

SO many forget this very thing.

[VoidJustice]

SO many forget this very thing.

 

No I don't think the pre 60 valor set gets the deal. If they REMOVED ALL THE GEAR, handed us all the same gear and said go ahead play... I'd be fine with that.

 

However Im starting to feel like Charlie Brown.. I keep playing the game running to kick the ball and BW/Lucy keeps MOVING IT WHEN I GET THERE.

 

If their going to make us grind... quit making the grind we did irrelevant a month or so later.

Edited April 4, 2012 by VoidJustice

[TDRedmage]

For those of us without full BM gear, getting new gear is a HUGE concern. Gear is what puts us on even footing with other players in the pvp arena. Gear makes our character more powerful and effective in pvp. For those of us not in BM gear, grinding out WZs to get that gear just so we don't get blown away by those that do have that gear is a huge concern.

 

Yes, pvp is fun, but it is most fun when its fair. And its only fair when no one has a gear advantage. The OP doesn't see a reason to continue to pvp until 1.2 because he cannot close that gear gap before the patch and any gear he could earn will be made irrelevant by the new Recruit set. Its not fun getting farmed by people in full BM gear when you're still rocking mostly champion gear with a few cent pieces knowing that you can't close that gear gap before 1.2 launches.

 

We all went through the "just turned 50 and have no gear" phase. And even if the recruit set would be an upgrade to anything you could get now, you still earn valor, which is still a requirement for some items.

 

Why is trying to close the gear gap now so futile? Even if you don't make it before the patch comes out, won't you be that much closer when it does? This is my main problem with the OP. He claims there's no point when there clearly is.

[Dalytron]

And even if the recruit set would be an upgrade to anything you could get now, you still earn valor, which is still a requirement for some items.

 

What items might that be, the speeder? It's my understanding after 1.2, valor is meaningless as BM gear will no longer require a valor rank to obtain. In addition, War Hero gear will only require you to obtain BM gear prior to trading up.

[NDiggy]

We all went through the "just turned 50 and have no gear" phase. And even if the recruit set would be an upgrade to anything you could get now, you still earn valor, which is still a requirement for some items.

 

Why is trying to close the gear gap now so futile? Even if you don't make it before the patch comes out, won't you be that much closer when it does? This is my main problem with the OP. He claims there's no point when there clearly is.

 

And all the people without a BM set will have to go through the "just turned 50 and have not gear" phase yet again. The gap between the BM set and the Recruit set is a lot bigger than the gap between Champion gear and Battlemaster gear. Why are we being thrown backwards while the people with the BM set actually get their set upgraded?

[Varicite]

No I don't think the pre 60 valor set gets the deal. If they REMOVED ALL THE GEAR, handed us all the same gear and said go ahead play... I'd be fine with that.

 

However Im starting to feel like Charlie Brown.. I keep playing the game running to kick the ball and BW/Lucy keeps MOVING IT WHEN I GET THERE.

 

If their going to make us grind... quit making the grind we did irrelevant a month or so later.

 

No, it's actually more like you keep trying to kick the ball and BW keeps moving it. Then all of a sudden, they just hand you the ball and say "Go have fun, kid."

 

1.2, they are handing you an equivalent set of gear to everyone else. You're not grinding anything for it, you just buy it. Since they're getting rid of the BM grind, you can just get that set for WZ comms now, which is WAY easier than it was when I got mine. Then you can upgrade to War Hero gear just like everyone else.

 

As for "wasting" the time you spent on what you're wearing now, again:

 

Who cares about the gear you have being removed, you got to use it when it was relevant and the stats were relevant. It wasn't a waste of your time if you enjoyed the time playing the game; that is literally the entire point of playing this game, not keeping your gear forever.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[Graushwein]

You would probably have a lot more time to play if you didn't make posts like this.

 

Further more the notion you're moaning the lack of meaningful conversation and yet continue to engage the people you're complaining about completely nullifies your point.

 

To answer your question, I have full BM gear, and have for quite a while. I keep playing because gear is not the reason I play. In your hypothetical question, no, I would not stop or hold off playing just because gear is being adjusted. I play for fun, and wonder why even bother to make this thread if gear is as little a concern as you claim.

 

I'm happy to say that my hard work has paid off with a job that requires more availability than grunt work so that I'm available to put out figurative fires as soon as possible. Unfortunately my site admin still plays WOW. If I can bring him over to the dark side then I'll definately be taking your advice!

 

The fact that I'm engaging my detractors does not nullify my point though. I have and do enjoy engaging reasonable people with posts such as yours to talk rationally. If there are questions about how I'm responding to the irrational, I am engaging them in the same manner they try to engage me. No, I can't compete with them based on how elite or well geared my character is. Game Trolls tend believe that their in-game superiority affords them the leeway or right to belittle "less experienced" players, without support or rational reasoning and because of another person's perceived inferiority, with comments that are completely irrelevant to the thread. So I respond off topic to them as well, in a manner most similar to that which they are communicating, by pointing out their inferior skill at disciplined thought displayed in the very thread they troll. Co-dependence begets co-dependence. Sometimes it is more effective to fight fire with high explosives than with the liquid that has nourished these neglected minds.

[TDRedmage]

What items might that be, the speeder? It's my understanding after 1.2, valor is meaningless as BM gear will no longer require a valor rank to obtain. In addition, War Hero gear will only require you to obtain BM gear prior to trading up.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056&page=1

 

Under "Items and Economy", then "Vendors"

 

"The Valor Rank requirement has been removed from Battlemaster earpieces and implants."

 

EARPIECES AND IMPLANTS. Not all BM gear. You will still have to have rank60 for the rest of BM gear.

 

Since you trade in BM pieces to get war hero gear, you will need rank 60 for that as well.

 

Please read the patch notes. Please. FFS.

Edited April 4, 2012 by TDRedmage

[NDiggy]

No, it's actually more like you keep trying to kick the ball and BW keeps moving it. Then all of a sudden, they just hand you the ball and say "Go have fun, kid."

 

1.2, they are handing you an equivalent set of gear to everyone else. You're not grinding anything for it, you just buy it. Since they're getting rid of the BM grind, you can just get that set for WZ comms now, which is WAY easier than it was when I got mine. Then you can upgrade to War Hero gear just like everyone else.

 

As for "wasting" the time you spent on what you're wearing now, again:

 

You still haven't answered why BM gear is getting stat updates and all the other gear isn't. Why is BM gear getting preferential treatment? Its not like it involved any skill to get, just a time sink.

 

And, to complete you analogy, you try to kick the ball, BW keeps moving it, and then BW gives you an old pair of cleats and tells you that you have to play that team on the other sideline in full pads and helmets, but its cool cause everyone on your team has the same old pair of cleats.

[Varicite]

You still haven't answered why BM gear is getting stat updates and all the other gear isn't. Why is BM gear getting preferential treatment? Its not like it involved any skill to get, just a time sink.

 

And, to complete you analogy, you try to kick the ball, BW keeps moving it, and then BW gives you an old pair of cleats and tells you that you have to play that team on the other sideline in full pads and helmets, but its cool cause everyone on your team has the same old pair of cleats.

 

No, because you have access to the exact same pads and helmets as the other team. It's being offered to you just as much as the other team, and for a fantastic price!

 

You would just rather use your old pair of cleats that were from a time before great advancements had been made in cleat technology, because they have some kind of sentimental value to you.

 

The other team threw out their old gear and put on the new pads, helmets, and shoes and are ready to rock, because they know that people are continually making better, more rugged and lightweight football equipment.

 

They have no reason to hang on to their worn-out cleats, other than to reminisce about when they had to play football uphill both ways in the snow, and how much better it is now that they can actually kick the ball.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Varicite

[NDiggy]

No, because you have access to the exact same pads and helmets as the other team. It's being offered to you just as much as the other team, and for a fantastic price!

 

You would just rather use your old pair of cleats that were from a time before great advancements had been made in cleat technology, because they have some kind of sentimental value to you.

 

The other team threw out their old gear and put on the new pads, helmets, and shoes and are ready to rock, because they know that people are continually making better, more rugged and lightweight football equipment.

 

They have no reason to hang on to their worn-out cleats, other than to reminisce about when they had to play football uphill both ways in the snow, and how much better it is now that they can actually kick the ball.

 

You have two groups of people. Those with BM gear and those without. Everyone without, if they're in Champion level gear, will have to downgrade to the Recruit set, which is a lower rating. The people in BM gear get to keep their gear with updated stats. The gear gap will grow between those with BM gear and those without.

 

Neither analogy really works except the original analogy with Charlie Brown getting jerked around by BW.

[NDiggy]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363056&page=1

 

Under "Items and Economy", then "Vendors"

 

"The Valor Rank requirement has been removed from Battlemaster earpieces and implants."

 

EARPIECES AND IMPLANTS. Not all BM gear. You will still have to have rank60 for the rest of BM gear.

 

Since you trade in BM pieces to get war hero gear, you will need rank 60 for that as well.

 

Please read the patch notes. Please. FFS.

 

As of now BM gear on the PTS has no valor rating requirement. At one point one of the original PTS builds still had the earpiece and implants requiring a valor rating. That has since been removed and none of the BM pieces require even level 1 valor to buy. Please do some research before you post misinformation.

[Graushwein]

No, it's actually more like you keep trying to kick the ball and BW keeps moving it. Then all of a sudden, they just hand you the ball and say "Go have fun, kid."

 

1.2, they are handing you an equivalent set of gear to everyone else. You're not grinding anything for it, you just buy it. Since they're getting rid of the BM grind, you can just get that set for WZ comms now, which is WAY easier than it was when I got mine. Then you can upgrade to War Hero gear just like everyone else.

 

As for "wasting" the time you spent on what you're wearing now, again:

 

No, it is actually more like you are participating in an iron-man competition to earn equipment that somewhat closes the gap to those leading and also distances you from those that are not yet competing. You have swam to the beach and are running to reach your bicycle for the last leg. But before you can make it to the bikes, your progress is reset and you are back at the starting line with people who haven't worked as hard as you, or at all for that matter. However those that were able to make it to their bikes were able to stay there are are now continuing from the 2/3rds mark. Not only have you lost an enormous amount of ground and capabilities compared to the leaders, you've also lost your lead on those who began the race after you had reached the halfway point...

[Varicite]

You have two groups of people. Those with BM gear and those without. Everyone without, if they're in Champion level gear, will have to downgrade to the Recruit set, which is a lower rating. The people in BM gear get to keep their gear with updated stats. The gear gap will grow between those with BM gear and those without.

 

Neither analogy really works except the original analogy with Charlie Brown getting jerked around by BW.

 

The flaw in your logic is that nobody would actually buy the Recruit gear if it is a downgrade to Champion gear, and the entire point of this thread is completely moot.

 

The OP is complaining that his hard work is being wasted by having a better set of gear come out.

 

If the Recruit set of gear were worse than his current gear, he wouldn't care, because then he could just continue wearing Champ gear and be competitive.