When can we expect to see a nerf of the Hybrid Sin/Shadow? + Proposed changes

[shadowfoxe]

what kind of a person asks for a nerf to get changes to the other spec''s

 

why not post that the other specs need work /sigh

[Stratoforce]

It's "free" for the class I just mentioned, because it's part of their main damage ability (Flame Burst) and also procs free Rail Shots and puts one of the heftiest elemental DoTs in game on you. All "free".

 

In fact, every snare that I mentioned in the post that you quoted occurs w/ damage. A LOT more damage than Wither on a single target, usually. Even Anni Mara's Rupture snare is getting buffed to 50%.

 

Tank Shadows/Assassins beat pyrotechs every time. Assuming the tanks aren't terrible. Not to mention if we don't got vent heat up, we are going to be full on heat and unable to start DPSing again after the heal.

 

Play a pyrotech, tell me how 'free' my snare is while you get full heat, and have to be in 10 meters.

[Varicite]

Tank Shadows/Assassins beat pyrotechs every time. Assuming the tanks aren't terrible. Not to mention if we don't got vent heat up, we are going to be full on heat and unable to start DPSing again after the heal.

 

Play a pyrotech, tell me how 'free' my snare is while you get full heat, and have to be in 10 meters.

 

I do play a Pyrotech. I also said that Tankasins are the one tank that can beat them, so they're fortunate.

 

I was just using them as an example (because I know PTs well) of a class that operates at 10m and has a stronger snare than 30%. All melee classes use a snare that's stronger than 30%, as far as I know, and it's "free" for most of them by being baked into a damage move.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Varicite

[Syn_O_Nym]

Q: I know in MMOs class balance is always an ongoing thing, it is never perfected. Most of the changes in 1.2 I agree with but shadow/assassin tank hybrids – 400k damage and lots of protection. TLDR: there is a shadow/assassin tank hybrid spec I feel is overpowered- are the devs ok with this?

 

Devs Response: If there are hybrid specs that are outperforming the metrics we have set for them, we are certainly going to take a look at that. As of right now, we have not found hybrid specs we have not addressed yet. As of right now, we don’t see it right now. You may see a flash of brilliance from a particular spec in one particular situation/warzone but overall we consider all the specs are performing in line with each other.

 

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Gee, look how far your "posts" have gotten you guys.

 

 

Anyone else care to waste their hours/days/weeks posting drivel?

 

 

LOL.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Syn_O_Nym

[Zintair]

Q: I know in MMOs class balance is always an ongoing thing, it is never perfected. Most of the changes in 1.2 I agree with but shadow/assassin tank hybrids – 400k damage and lots of protection. TLDR: there is a shadow/assassin tank hybrid spec I feel is overpowered- are the devs ok with this?

 

Devs Response: If there are hybrid specs that are outperforming the metrics we have set for them, we are certainly going to take a look at that. As of right now, we have not found hybrid specs we have not addressed yet. As of right now, we don’t see it right now. You may see a flash of brilliance from a particular spec in one particular situation/warzone but overall we consider all the specs are performing in line with each other.

 

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Gee, look how far your "posts" have gotten you guys.

 

 

Anyone else care to waste their hours/days/weeks posting drivel?

 

 

LOL.

 

They should have known this to argue that a class they just buffed needs to be super nerfed. GOOD LUCK.

 

 

Let this thread die as it belongs.

[Dee-Jay]

Gee, look how far your "posts" have gotten you guys.

 

 

Anyone else care to waste their hours/days/weeks posting drivel?

 

 

LOL.

 

This is actually a real problem if this is how Bioware evaluates "balance".

 

You can't simply pre-define certain PvP metrics and then wait for a class to break these boundaries. You have to actually play the game and listen to feedback.

 

When people talk about Hybrid Assassins they mostly mean tank-specced Assassins in DPS gear.

 

If Bioware actually looked beyond their data-mined statistics they'd see it and understand the need for change.

[Zintair]

This is actually a real problem if this is how Bioware evaluates "balance".

 

You can't simply pre-define certain PvP metrics and then wait for a class to break these boundaries. You have to actually play the game and listen to feedback.

 

When people talk about Hybrid Assassins they mostly mean tank-specced Assassins in DPS gear.

 

If Bioware actually looked beyond their data-mined statistics they'd see it and understand the need for change.

 

What are you talking about. They have seen the metrics performed by these Shadows and Assassins. They aren't that impressive sorry.

 

I've never seen a DPS Tank Shadow or Assassin do anything AMAZING and I am one and have tried the spec. It's just NOT THAT GOOD.

 

Yeah you can be the hero of your random warzones or run in a premade and think your good but against a REAL premade of balanced classes your gonna get stomped.

 

The best you'll accomplish is a 0/0 tie in Voidstar and that's with like 3-4 healers.

 

The parses are up there. They net like 300 less Damage per second. Their burst is mediocre. Ohh 3-4k Project and Spinning Strikes.

 

 

That's a joke on a protected DPS/Healer or tank

Edited April 7, 2012 by Zintair

[AMKSED]

Q: I know in MMOs class balance is always an ongoing thing, it is never perfected. Most of the changes in 1.2 I agree with but shadow/assassin tank hybrids – 400k damage and lots of protection. TLDR: there is a shadow/assassin tank hybrid spec I feel is overpowered- are the devs ok with this?

 

Devs Response: If there are hybrid specs that are outperforming the metrics we have set for them, we are certainly going to take a look at that. As of right now, we have not found hybrid specs we have not addressed yet. As of right now, we don’t see it right now. You may see a flash of brilliance from a particular spec in one particular situation/warzone but overall we consider all the specs are performing in line with each other.

 

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Gee, look how far your "posts" have gotten you guys.

 

 

Anyone else care to waste their hours/days/weeks posting drivel?

 

 

LOL.

 

Okay, Bioware doesn't know about their own game.

 

Enjoy rated WZs everyone! Assassins/Shadows and Marauders/Sentinels all day!

 

Also, where did the developer post that info at?

Edited April 7, 2012 by AMKSED

[AMKSED]

What are you talking about. They have seen the metrics performed by these Shadows and Assassins. They aren't that impressive sorry.

 

I've never seen a DPS Tank Shadow or Assassin do anything AMAZING and I am one and have tried the spec. It's just NOT THAT GOOD.

 

Yeah you can be the hero of your random warzones or run in a premade and think your good but against a REAL premade of balanced classes your gonna get stomped.

 

The best you'll accomplish is a 0/0 tie in Voidstar and that's with like 3-4 healers.

 

The parses are up there. They net like 300 less Damage per second. Their burst is mediocre. Ohh 3-4k Project and Spinning Strikes.

 

 

That's a joke on a protected DPS/Healer or tank

 

3-5k Spinning Strikes, Projects, Force in Balances. And then top it all off with a 1.5-2k x4 Tele Throw.

[Varicite]

3-5k Spinning Strikes, Projects, Force in Balances. And then top it all off with a 1.5-2k x4 Tele Throw.

 

Once every 2 minutes when every cooldown is up.

 

Also, the hybrid that you're talking about (w/ Force in Balance) doesn't have a TKT that ticks for 1.5-2k; you need Harnessed Shadows for that. You can also just interrupt it, since you also need Harnessed Shadows to make it uninterruptable.

 

They also don't have the self-healing everyone is talking about.

 

Spinning Strike is an Execute only usable at 30% health or below; it's a common mechanic. Not every ability hits this hard.

 

So what you're really complaining about right now is a 3-4k Project and a 2-3k Force in Balance followed by a TKT you can interrupt (especially in melee range).

 

I can think of a lot of classes that can do 5-7k damage in 2 GCDs when they have all of their cds up.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Varicite

[AMKSED]

Once every 2 minutes when every cooldown is up.

 

Also, the hybrid that you're talking about (w/ Force in Balance) doesn't have a TKT that ticks for 1.5-2k; you need Harnessed Shadows for that. You can also just interrupt it, since you also need Harnessed Shadows to make it uninterruptable.

 

They also don't have the self-healing everyone is talking about.

 

This is why I don't take anyone seriously on these forums and neither should a lot of people.

 

 

You don't even know what spec I'm talking about and you're wrong on every level. And does my 40% innate crit chance and 77% surge rating only work every 2 minutes?

[Varicite]

This is why I don't take anyone seriously on these forums and neither should a lot of people.

 

 

You don't even know what spec I'm talking about and you're wrong on every level. And does my 40% innate crit chance and 77% surge rating only work every 2 minutes?

 

A tank hybrid w/ Force in Balance?

 

Were you not talking about the common 24/1/12 build that takes Force Pull and Force in Balance? If not, then no, I don't know what you're talking about lol.

 

Most of the people in this thread seem to be talking about 31/0/10 (the most common Tankasin build) in dps gear, which isn't really a hybrid at all, and doesn't have Force in Balance. So I assumed you weren't talking about this.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Varicite

[AMKSED]

/sigh

 

What?! DPS classes in the DPS tree DPSing? What is this outrage?

 

I can put those numbers out and have 100+ protection and 75k healing!

[Varicite]

What?! DPS classes in the DPS tree DPSing? What is this outrage?

 

I can put those numbers out and have 100+ protection and 75k healing!

 

Mhm, and it won't mean the same thing as a DPS achieving those numbers at all. The screenshots were only to show that obviously a good DPS class can do the same thing a tank Sin can do damage-wise if they had similar uptime.

 

They aren't to be taken as a measure of anything else (which you seem to be doing), because they're an incomplete snapshot of the whole story, and therefore don't really show the difference in how those numbers were achieved.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Varicite

[MrXen]

This is why I don't take anyone seriously on these forums and neither should a lot of people.

 

 

You don't even know what spec I'm talking about and you're wrong on every level. And does my 40% innate crit chance and 77% surge rating only work every 2 minutes?

 

Yeah because people walk around with passive 40% crit all the time

 

 

 

You are so full of crap about everything its hilarious.

[Ravenolf]

Tanks should have high utility, not high damage.

[Neoforcer]

Tanks should have high utility, not high damage.

 

 

tanks don't have high damage this from PTS using combat logs and the new phaser for combining dps per sec

 

2/31/8 PvE Infiltration http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4135/...rationdumm.png 1357 dps

 

7/3/31 PVE Balance(without project, damage would increase if used) http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8216/adribalance2.png 1283.4 dps

 

7/3/31 PvE no project, with SS http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8...ribalance3.png 1374 dps

 

31/0/10 tank build, dps gear http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4323/kinetic.png 1099 dps

 

hey look a 1099 dps for a tank when most dps classes do 1500 to 1600 dps a sec on pts is so extreme

[Cowflab]

This is why I don't take anyone seriously on these forums and neither should a lot of people.

 

 

You don't even know what spec I'm talking about and you're wrong on every level. And does my 40% innate crit chance and 77% surge rating only work every 2 minutes?

 

You're so full of **** that its coming out of your ears. The highest "innate," or passive as us normal people with functioning brains call it I've seen was around 33-34% and that was with Crit stacked in full BM gear and a piece of rakata, with Rakata implants/ear piece, and improved lightning charge.

 

Keep posting though, I'm enjoying you make yourself look foolish. One more thing, isn't the surge soft cap 75%? Meaning you're itemized for 2% past(which is quite a bit) when you could be stacking Crit+power mods. I have a hard time believing you're as leet as you say your are when you can't even itemize your gear properly.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Cowflab

[_Scattered_]

One more thing, isn't the surge soft cap 75%? Meaning you're itemized for 2% past(which is quite a bit) when you could be stacking Crit+power mods. I have a hard time believing you're as leet as you say your are when you can't even itemize your gear properly.

 

Its either high surge or accuracy, accuracy only effects spinning strike. Can't really go wrong either way because past 75% surge it is a really small difference.

[Cowflab]

Its either high surge or accuracy, accuracy only effects spinning strike. Can't really go wrong either way because past 75% surge it is a really small difference.

 

Right, so ideally you would try to get as close to 30% Crit, 75% surge, and 95% accuracy as possible. Everything past that hit DR soft caps, which means the rest of your moddable enhancements should focus primarily on power to optimize dps.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Cowflab

[_Scattered_]

Right, so ideally you would try to get as close to 30% Crit, 75% surge, and 95% accuracy as possible. Everything past that hit DR soft caps, which means the rest of your moddable enhancements should focus primarily on power to optimize dps.

 

This is not possible because all enhancements have either high surge or high accuracy.

 

If I could drop 200 surge for power I would, in fact if I could drop 200 surge for any other stat besides accuracy/alacrity I would.

Edited April 7, 2012 by _Scattered_

[Cowflab]

This is not possible because all enhancements have either high surge or high accuracy.

 

If I could drop 200 surge for power I would, in fact if I could drop 200 surge for any other stat besides accuracy/alacrity I would.

 

Well, There is Endurance + Power + Surge in Champion Enforcer's Gloves

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/JEa9uU/c...forcers-gloves

Enhancement (56)

+23 Endurance

+34 Power

+48 Surge Rating

 

I don't think there are any others that are readily available or in game but you could always itemize with those. I tend to get a bit laxidasical with Crit because I am madness spec and have a passive +3% from my saber charge. I'm also interested to know how or if those will be updated in 1.2, bcause as of right now I haven't found any further information on them.

 

I know that doesn't help your excess surge situation put if you're looking for power enhancements that don't suck, that's as close to it as I've found.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Cowflab

[_Scattered_]

48 surge remains the same, I use those enhancements, the extra power comes at a loss of endurance.

[upzie]

This is not possible because all enhancements have either high surge or high accuracy.

 

If I could drop 200 surge for power I would, in fact if I could drop 200 surge for any other stat besides accuracy/alacrity I would.

 

These stats are unbuffed mind you

 

while using Dark Charge with 17317 Unbuffed hp ~18k hp with bh buff.

Edited April 7, 2012 by upzie

[Haeso]

Tank Shadows/Assassins beat pyrotechs every time. Assuming the tanks aren't terrible. Not to mention if we don't got vent heat up, we are going to be full on heat and unable to start DPSing again after the heal.

 

Play a pyrotech, tell me how 'free' my snare is while you get full heat, and have to be in 10 meters.

 

Until 1.2 a pyrotech especially hybrid, getting decent RNG on PPA can and will destroy a shadow tank. Bad luck he'll be absolutely smashed to be sure... But by that same hand when you get a few in a row... that shadow is done for.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Haeso