No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

[Valkirus]

If the LFD is so despised, then why do so many players use it?

 

Surely if the majority hated it, they'd just continue to look for pugs on chat instead of using it?

 

Or is that thinking too logically?

 

Hehe....it is thinking logically. Excellent point. Remember some are not against a LFD server side tool..only for cross server. And the one WoW has is cross server and tons of players use it all the time. So the same logic applies to the cross server argumant also.

[Evangelist]

Never seen a valid reason yet.

 

You say people act bad in if there is a LFD, don't use it.

 

Shockingly simple isn't it?

 

I don't believe anyone has an issue with a LFG tool, its the X-server LFG tool that people are speaking out about. Personally I think that the lack of server specific forums has impeded the sense of community in SWTOR.

 

You believe community doesn't exist? Well when I PVP I know when I see certain names/guilds in the WZ whether or not its going to be a good match or not and likely if we're going to win. I also kow that if people from a certain guild get recruited into a FP group that I should bow out cause they will ninja, AFK, or drop and the group will end up falling apart right after 90% of the time. I'm not the only one who notes such things either.

 

I'd also go as far to say that another reason "community" is lacking is that many current players either started playing or got used to that play style on other MMOs that already had the X-server tools and thus are conditioned away from a sense of community. It also plays to the "instant gratification" that younger players are so used to in their lives. "Its my FP and I want it NOW!!!!11!1!"

[chaosdefined]

I'd also go as far to say that another reason "community" is lacking is that many current players either started playing or got used to that play style on other MMOs that already had the X-server tools and thus are conditioned away from a sense of community. It also plays to the "instant gratification" that younger players are so used to in their lives. "Its my FP and I want it NOW!!!!11!1!"

 

Community is what you make of it. You can't exactly define Community because it's different to everyone.

 

To me, Community is my Guild. They are the ones I talk to, have fun with and run FP's with. So to me, they are the Community I care about.

 

Also your "instant gratification" argument is wrong. That refers to rewarding people for no effort. People are still putting in the effort to finish the Flashpoint. Preferring to find a group for one within 30 minutes rather than 3 hours is not "instant gratification" that's just normal.

[Evangelist]

Also your "instant gratification" argument is wrong. That refers to rewarding people for no effort. People are still putting in the effort to finish the Flashpoint. Preferring to find a group for one within 30 minutes rather than 3 hours is not "instant gratification" that's just normal.

 

Nope, its quite right. If you have to work for that group you're going to try to get the most out of that run as possible.

 

The X-server LFG tool gets you a group fast, said group then proceeds to run the instance in as short as time possible so they can re-queue to whack the loot pinata again. Been there, done that. My 2 tanks and 2 healers had practically insta-pop as soon as I queued and I was usually finished all four of their instance dailies in about an hour.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Evangelist

[chaosdefined]

Nope, its quite right. If you have to work for that group you're going to try to get the most out of that run as possible.

 

The X-server LFG tool gets you a group fast, said group then proceeds to run the instance in as short as time possible so they can re-queue to whack the loot pinata again. Been there, done that. My 2 tanks and 2 healers had practically insta-pop as soon as I queued and I was usually finished all four of their instance dailies in about an hour.

 

I'm sorry but no, it's not right. Working to get a group? That's ludicrous. It does not make the FP feel any more rewarding, it means you have less time in which to actually enjoy the game. You end up trying to rush through the FP as fast as you can because you wasted so much time trying to get a group!

 

Have you actually thought this through?

Edited April 5, 2012 by chaosdefined

[MasterKayote]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748228

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748128

[chaosdefined]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748228

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748128

 

I'm sorry, were you trying to make a new point?

[Holden_Dissent]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748228

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748128

 

I love this part

 

Don't worry about casting lightning bolt, people will just treat you like trash if you do. It's the way the WoW Community is now. The people who kicked you were douche bags, like most of the people in WoW today. Best thing for you to do is shrug it off and move on (I've had to several times over the past few days)

[MasterKayote]

I'm sorry, were you trying to make a new point?

 

Huh? Oh! no, not at all ... my Ctrl-V finger must've just slipped. Pay no attention to it ...

 

Continue fighting the good fight for a system that removes any and all consequence and personal accountability for ones actions just so you can have some instant gratification when looking for a group.

[Evangelist]

I'm sorry but no, it's not right. Working to get a group? That's ludicrous. It does not make the FP feel any more rewarding, it means you have less time in which to actually enjoy the game. You end up trying to rush through the FP as fast as you can because you wasted so much time trying to get a group!

 

Have you actually thought this through?

 

Let me ask you this.

 

If it takes you 30-45 minutes to find a group are you going to do anything to jeprodize the groups stability or your position in that group?

 

I have no issue with a LFG tool, in fact I agree that one is needed badly, just not one that pulls from multiple servers. I also support the merging of lower population servers and/or a character transfer solution.

[chaosdefined]

Huh? Oh! no, not at all ... my Ctrl-V finger must've just slipped. Pay no attention to it ...

 

Continue fighting the good fight for a system that removes any and all consequence and personal accountability for ones actions just so you can have some instant gratification when looking for a group.

 

Ah right, I didn't think you'd read anything before posting.

[Kucerakov]

It's a good sample size of the people who are against cross-server. I have yet to see you offer similar proof that a larger number of people prefer cross-server. Those people are also guild leaders being in charge of several guild members. Bioware should listen to them because more subs are on the line than the few of you.

 

You kinda don't understand business, do you?

 

People who do not want cross server will be fine if one is implemented, because they are all set.

 

People who do want it, and do not get it, and being on a low pop server thereby cannot do FPs... will LEAVE.

 

 

Also, people say it will ruin community. X-server lfg has been in WoW now what, over a year? So what I am guessing is that the community deterioration you speak of is finite. All of the WoW servers I play on have robust communities. People on the server know each other, raid with each other, form groups with each other, talk in trade chat over stupid nonsense with each other. So where is this lack of community you speak of? Where are the ghost town cities filled with people who never interact because all they need is the lfg. So is the community ruining not open-ended? Does it ruin it for a little while and then it recovers? So you want people on low pop server to continue being unable to run FPs and HMs because of a spectral community ruining effect which may or may not last over a month?

 

Also, I have been in plenty of groups formed both in SWTOR and WoW. In both games there were rude immature people and kind, polite mature people. These groups were formed WITHOUT a cross server lfg tool. I have also been in groups with both kinds of people formed WITH an LFG tool. It was neither the lfg tool nor the supposed anonymity it affords that made the people behave as they do.

 

This is the internet. Do you honestly, ACTUALLY BELIEVE that people are on their best behavior until they get that slightly larger sliver of anonymity an LFG tool allows and then just go all crazy rude morons? Do you really believe that?

 

What happened is that someone came up with the theory that LFG tools ruin community. Taken completely by itself it seems to afford more anonymity, and seems plausible. It is not. It is a combination of ad hominem and post hoc ergo propter hoc. There was bad community, LFG had been introduced previously, therefore everything bad that has occurred since then was caused by LFG. I have been in groups with bad people formed by lfg before therefore LFG = bad things. These are logical fallacies.

 

So great one person quoted me saying they have been playing since 2005. Grats. So I have been playing MMOs just shy of 10 years longer than you. People on the internet will be anonymous morons, LFG tool or no.

 

Saying no to an lfg tool because of morons on the internet is equivalent to banning buildings taller than one story because some kids like to put gum under the railing. People will behave poorly or well regardless of the tool.

 

Now there are people who claim that it ruins communities. In ALL of my time playing MMOs and in the time since LFG was implemented in WoW, i have observed no significant difference in the "community" one way or another. I am not stupid. I am observant. Yet they claim to have witnessed this deterioration while I have not. Now let me ask you this.

 

What motivation would I have to lie to get an LFG tool? That's right. None.

 

What motivation would people have to lie (or creatively remember differently) to stop an LFG tool? Simple really. People fear change, and they are all set getting groups. Everyone else who has a problem can go shove it. I have no problem so I will invent one that might occur with change.

 

Inability to find or form groups on low population servers is a cancer that feeds itself. I imagine the "same server only" lfg tool will come with a hidden toggle. After the no grouping cancer kills off a few servers, the toggle will go on, LFG will be cross server, community will be unaffected, and life will go on. Only a few thousand people will have the game ruined for them, and bioware will only lose a few million dollars, we will have cross server LFG, and all of these nonsense "community" claims will be silenced.

[chaosdefined]

Let me ask you this.

 

If it takes you 30-45 minutes to find a group are you going to do anything to jeprodize the groups stability or your position in that group?

 

I have no issue with a LFG tool, in fact I agree that one is needed badly, just not one that pulls from multiple servers. I also support the merging of lower population servers and/or a character transfer solution.

 

If I spend 30-45 minutes finding a group, then spend an hour getting near the end and the Tank then decides he has to go before the end, and that I'll have to wait another 30-45 minutes to get another Tank...

 

No, I'm not going to feel like any of that was rewarding.

[Mordalus]

The idea that the devs will take "BS" talking points in order to make a single server dungeon finder is frankly, absurd. You're implying the devs deliberately want to sabotage their game.

 

No valid reason? I have already linked the youtube video where Gabe has explained that "random AFK dude" won't be so afk because that dude has to watch his behavior.

 

12:05 onwards

 

That is one valid reason. Pretty sure more people applauded SINGLE-SERVER group finder than the number of people who want cross-server posting in these threads. I.e., you are just a vocal minority.

 

Numerous people like myself have already explained the number of bad behavior that we encountered after cross-server was implemented. If you choose not to listen to them, that's your problem. Valid reasons have been posted, you just don't listen to anyone but yourself. Fortunately the devs are not like that.

 

and a hand-picked, small group of people represent the playbase how?

[Evangelist]

If I spend 30-45 minutes finding a group, then spend an hour getting near the end and the Tank then decides he has to go before the end, and that I'll have to wait another 30-45 minutes to get another Tank...

 

No, I'm not going to feel like any of that was rewarding.

 

I did not ask you if you'd feel more rewarded, I asked you if you would act in a manner that would jeprodize the group's stability (causing someone to leave) or that would risk your removal from the group. Don't dodge the question.

[Kucerakov]

and a hand-picked, small group of people represent the playbase how?

I know, right? The best part is that that handpicked group might as well be the charter members of the "I do not need a cross server LFG tool therefore no one should have it" club. The leadership of the 100-some largest guilds in the game. Who needs LFG less?

 

That's like saying "To get a completely unbiased opinion on the edibility of that steak in the garbage, we will ask a completely impartial source. The family dog." Duuuuuuh-erp.

 

The absolute very best delicious part? Conradlionheart truly believes he has just made a valid point with this link. "That roomful of like minded people who agree with me, agree with me. Case closed, huzzah!" roflmao. For real.

[Evangelist]

and a hand-picked, small group of people represent the playbase how?

 

A small group of hand picked (and if you believe they aren't...well I've got a bridge for sale real cheap) people represent the will of the people how? Studies and surveys use the same methods to supposedly tell the media what everyone believes and wants.

[chaosdefined]

I did not ask you if you'd feel more rewarded, I asked you if you would act in a manner that would jeprodize the group's stability (causing someone to leave) or that would risk your removal from the group. Don't dodge the question.

 

I'm not dodging the question. No matter if I had instantly got a group or waited an hour for one, I do not act badly in a group.

 

You are judging everyone under the assumption that they're a bad player waiting to happen. It's amazing how those who want to preserve community are so anti-social.

[MasterKayote]

Ah right, I didn't think you'd read anything before posting.

 

lol, says the guy thats actually asking for an obvious point to very related links.

 

Why would I want to read the same garbage I read in countless other threads anyway? You think youre making awesome unique points by posting 4 "I agree with you cause youre on my side" posts per page?

 

"I dont want to stand around fleet for hours"

"Same server LFG is fine for that"

"But I want to get a group in 15 minutes!"

"No that scales up the dbaggery and ruins communities"

"No it doesnt!"

"Yes it does, look at WoW (links)"

"Nah uh! lalalala"

*repeat*

 

They already said we're getting same server LFG ... IF players still cant find groups im sure they'll change it.

 

Hopefully, like the parser issue, they'll be sure the put in tools and mechanics to mitigate or prevent this game from turning into the antisocial cesspool of ashats its turned WoW's grouping into. Which, BTW, is the thing we SHOULD be discussing, and has been brought up before (by myself included) but youre all too busy rewording the above "arguments" trying to "prove" youre 100% correct instead of perhaps coming up with good ideas and compromises to help resolve the grouping issue.

[navarh]

kekeke, still active

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4365748228

okay let's talk about this one

 

we hear only one part of story, by "victim", but what about of that tank point of view?

and other 3 ppl who then vote-kicked him?

you want us believe that tank leaved for no reason at all and then 3 other ppl vote-kicked him, again for no reason? huh?

 

really?

Edited April 5, 2012 by navarh

[Evangelist]

I'm not dodging the question. No matter if I had instantly got a group or waited an hour for one, I do not act badly in a group.

 

You are judging everyone under the assumption that they're a bad player waiting to happen. It's amazing how those who want to preserve community are so anti-social.

 

Anti-Social...I don't believe that term means what you think it means. Standing anonymously in a crowd of thousands at some event does not make you "social", nor does a cross server LFG tool.

 

Quite honestly 10 years of experience across multiple MMOs has taught me that everyone I don't have pre-existing experience with is a "bad" player until they prove otherwise. Bad covering the gamut from inexperienced (very willing to work with them) to plain incompetent, to ninjas, to extended/frequent AFKers, to those that intentionally attempt to wipe the group. It usually doesn't take long for people to establish that they don't merit the "bad" rating, though ninjas can fool ya, and it also usually don't take long for them to prove they deserve it too.

[chaosdefined]

lol, says the guy thats actually asking for an obvious point to very related links.

 

Why would I want to read the same garbage I read in countless other threads anyway? You think youre making awesome unique points by posting 4 "I agree with you cause youre on my side" posts per page?

 

"I dont want to stand around fleet for hours"

"Same server LFG is fine for that"

"But I want to get a group in 15 minutes!"

"No that scales up the dbaggery and ruins communities"

"No it doesnt!"

"Yes it does, look at WoW (links)"

"Nah uh! lalalala"

*repeat*

 

They already said we're getting same server LFG ... IF players still cant find groups im sure they'll change it.

 

Hopefully, like the parser issue, they'll be sure the put in tools and mechanics to mitigate or prevent this game from turning into the antisocial cesspool of ashats its turned WoW's grouping into. Which, BTW, is the thing we SHOULD be discussing, and has been brought up before (by myself included) but youre all too busy rewording the above "arguments" trying to "prove" youre 100% correct instead of perhaps coming up with good ideas and compromises to help resolve the grouping issue.

 

Your mature and well constructed debate has surely convinced me you are right. /sarcasm

[chaosdefined]

Anti-Social...I don't believe that term means what you think it means. Standing anonymously in a crowd of thousands at some event does not make you "social", nor does a cross server LFG tool.

 

Quite honestly 10 years of experience across multiple MMOs has taught me that everyone I don't have pre-existing experience with is a "bad" player until they prove otherwise. Bad covering the gamut from inexperienced (very willing to work with them) to plain incompetent, to ninjas, to extended/frequent AFKers, to those that intentionally attempt to wipe the group. It usually doesn't take long for people to establish that they don't merit the "bad" rating, though ninjas can fool ya, and it also usually don't take long for them to prove they deserve it too.

 

well at least you understand one thing. There's nothing social about the game currently, and no community to protect.

 

It's a shame you have become so embittered that you don't trust anyone you play with. Perhaps you should stick to single player games if this is the case?

Edited April 5, 2012 by chaosdefined

[navarh]

Quite honestly 10 years of experience across multiple MMOs has taught me that everyone I don't have pre-existing experience with is a "bad" player until they prove otherwise.

i do almost the same thing

every pug is n00b for me before prove otherwise

 

but with major difference i do not think they are "bad players" or some evil being i simply do not ask much from them, i do not count much on them, if they do near zero dps?

so? in my eyes it's normal situation for pug

[Evangelist]

kekeke, still active

 

okay let's talk about this one

 

we hear only one part of story, by "victim", but what about of that tank point of view?

and other 3 ppl who then vote-kicked him?

you want us believe that tank leaved for no reason at all and then 3 other ppl vote-kicked him, again for no reason? huh?

 

really?

 

Yes. Most people will agree to a kick as soon as it is initiated, doesn't matter why. They don't know you nor care, you're easily replacable. Even worse are when you get like 3-4 from a guild. They could ninja with impunity, or "Oh hey Ziggy logged on let's boot this guy and get Ziggy". Add in the DF debuff/cooldown that kept you sidelined for 15-30 minutes depending on time.

 

I've tanked groups where the DPS sucked and they booted the healer, I've healed groups where the DPs was pulling aggro and blaming the rage starved Warrior. Bye bye Warrior. I've seen DPS kicked cause they were "last" on the DPS meter but weren't far behind the other two DPS. Again G.I.F.T. comes into play with a vengence.