Who came with the ''hiding the twins away'' plan ?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Except that a plot point is that the Galactic Empire meddled a lot in inner poltiics, propping candidates on local thrones on a regular basis

 

(Warrior Princess comic is a good example)

 

What politics? The Emperor dissolved the senate.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Angedechu]

Politics don't means ''election''

 

There was a LOT of politics in medieval monarchies.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Politics don't means ''election''

 

There was a LOT of politics in medieval monarchies.

 

Ya know, expect by the GCW era Alderaan was no longer a monarchy but a Democracy. The monarchy only lasted till 3, 653 BBY.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[casirabit]

Another thing the twins being hidden it is quite possible that a lot of people could have assume when Padme died the children she was carrying died also. In such case no one would have been looking for them so taking Luke to his uncle was probably the best idea since it was in the outer rim and no one would question Bail and his wife adopting, since he did state they had wanted a girl for a long time.

 

Remember her funeral, in her funeral she was made to look still pregant. I read someting once regarding that:

 

 

After her death in childbirth on Polis Massa, Amidala's body was returned to Naboo for the proper funeral rites. In order to hide the fact that Amidala's children survived, her body was prepared to still appear pregnant. Her maternal grandmother, Ryoo Thule, oversaw Amidala's burial, as per Naboo custom.

 

Amidala's body in her casket as it is drawn through the streets of Theed.

Drawn through the streets of Theed in a four-gualaar carriage, Amidala's body was seen as drowning in a watery casket, as her funeral gown was several different shades of blue and her hair was fanned appropriately. The japor snippet given to her by her secret husband, Anakin Skywalker, thirteen years earlier rested in her folded hands as well. Thousands of mourners witnessed or followed the procession, which was led by Queen Apailana, Amidala's family, the Royal Advisory Council, Boss Rugor Nass, Representative Jar Jar Binks, and her former handmaidens, who acted as pallbearers.

 

According to Naboo tradition, no autopsy was performed on Amidala's body, though Amidala's friend and colleague, Senator Silya Shessaun, attempted to start an investigation to look further into Amidala's untimely death. Shessaun's efforts were thwarted by the newly-appointed Emperor Palpatine, citing "security concerns."

 

Six months later, Inquisitor Malorum traveled to Naboo seeking information on Amidala and her pregnancy, suspecting that her child might have survived. He interrogated Ryoo Thule, since she had overseen her granddaughter's body and burial. When she refused to give him the information he sought, he killed her

Edited April 2, 2012 by casi

[Angedechu]

Even with Britain today, there would a major uproar if Kate Middleton adopted a random a kid.

[casirabit]

Even with Britain today, there would a major uproar if Kate Middleton adopted a random a kid.

 

Real life Britian royalty has no bearing on Star Wars royalty.

[Kelfred]

In regard to the original questions posed, it would make sense for Palpatine to not kill Bail (even or especially if he knew Bail was allied with the resistance).

 

If he know Bail was with the resistance, he would know who to watch, he could see who goes to talk to Bail and then watch them. He could gather loads of info on the rebellion and its members.

 

If he killed Bail, someone else would just take his place. Possibly someone unknown to Palpatine. It would take time and resources to find out who replaces Bail, vital information could be lost in that span of time.

 

The same, conversely, goes for Bail watching Palpatine. There is something to be said for hiding in plain sight. Especially as a senator you would likely have access to all sorts of information like troop movements, expansion plans, etc. You'd be placed to hear if there was any possibility of troops going to Tatooine for example. Since he was already a senator, it might be viewed suspiciously if he were to suddenly up and vanish also.

[westraz]

I think Leia know she was not the Organs bio child it seems to come off that way in a lot of the EU Edited April 2, 2012 by westraz

[Toonimator]

You're still applying real-world political logic to Star Wars. You have NO IDEA how Alderaan would respond to the Organas adopting. They're a peaceful planet, no weapons... why would they get bent out of shape about Bail & Breha adopting? They may not have any siblings. They may not have any cousins. Who knows? Who cares? They wanted heirs, they adopted. It's a modern society.

 

As for Leia's ROTJ memorie... there's no two ways about it: she's referring to Padme. Anyone who says she's remembering Breha is wrong. There's no mention of Breha before; her father is referenced a couple times, in Leia's holo to Obi-Wan and when she's greeted on Yavin 4. Of course the guy greeting her's gonna mention her father, as he's one of the founders of the Rebellion.

 

Leia KNEW she was adopted. Bail all but confirms that it'd be public knowledge that he & Breha were adopting a kid. Obviously Luke learned of her adoption sometime offscreen and/or between films of the OT, as she's not surprised he's asking about her REAL mother, only surprised at the timing & what he could possibly want to know about her REAL mother (aka HIS mother).

 

The only question, the only 'plot-hole', is how LEIA remembered Padme after only a few moments, but Luke didn't AT ALL. I've seen theories that "Oh, Leia & Padme shared a special bond" or "it was the Force" or, the craziest, "Leia had her eyes open when shown to Padme, Luke's eyes were closed" (look at the film, that's not true). The sad truth of the matter is George changed his mind in the years between ROTJ and TPM. By that point, a lot of vocal fans were convinced Padme HAD to die in Episode 3, and they're as dumb as George was in having that happen.

 

Would've been better to show her heartbroken, basically completely devastated aside from motherly courage to be there for her daughter, but--and this would be the tricky part--it'd be obvious she wasn't long for the world, that she'd only last a few years, tops, before all the grief of Anakin's betrayal & attack as well as the changes in the galaxy would crush her. To me, that works a lot better than "Oh she had Force visions of the past cuz she's got the Force, even tho she's never been trained unlike Luke who only had visions AFTER being trained" which DOESN'T make much sense, particularly for a character that was only chosen to be Luke's sister basically at the last minute.

 

As for the birthdays, who's to say Owen & Beru told Luke his TRUE birthday? Who's to say Bail & Breha told Leia her TRUE birthday? Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Bail could've worked out all those details offscreen.

[BigPun]

do we even know if they celebrate bdays? seems to me that on tattooine there's no reason to be happy you're there another year. comes off as they count 'cycles' rather than specfic dates.

[Angedechu]

In a monarchy, legitimacy and bloodline are as important as elections in democracy.

 

Adopting a kid is worse than the POTUS telling midterm ''Oh, I'm removing the women right to vote''

 

As a King, you got your job because of your heredity (1) : you can't alter the deal.

 

The best example of this is the succesion of King Henry III of France. His heir, Henry IV, was a very distant cousin. He was a protestant, which was probably worse than ''Sith sorcerer'' for over 80% of French population. Yet no one seriously discussed that he was the rightful heir to the throne.

 

And Alderaan is obviously working as a hereditary monarchy of a rather traditionnal model

-Check what happens in TOR on Alderaan

-The marriage of Bail and Breah was brokered as a peace deal between the Organa and Antilles family. The idea was obviously that the next king of Alderaan would be of both lines. Bail adopting a kid would cause both Organa and Antilles familly scream bloody murder over it, if only to push other candidates to the throne.

 

(1)I'm obviously not approving this. I'm just saying this is how this work in a monarchy.

[Wolfninjajedi]

In a monarchy, legitimacy and bloodline are as important as elections in democracy.

 

Adopting a kid is worse than the POTUS telling midterm ''Oh, I'm removing the women right to vote''

 

As a King, you got your job because of your heredity (1) : you can't alter the deal.

 

The best example of this is the succesion of King Henry III of France. His heir, Henry IV, was a very distant cousin. He was a protestant, which was probably worse than ''Sith sorcerer'' for over 80% of French population. Yet no one seriously discussed that he was the rightful heir to the throne.

 

And Alderaan is obviously working as a hereditary monarchy of a rather traditionnal model

-Check what happens in TOR on Alderaan

-The marriage of Bail and Breah was brokered as a peace deal between the Organa and Antilles family. The idea was obviously that the next king of Alderaan would be of both lines. Bail adopting a kid would cause both Organa and Antilles familly scream bloody murder over it, if only to push other candidates to the throne.

 

(1)I'm obviously not approving this. I'm just saying this is how this work in a monarchy.

 

Except by the time of the marriage, Alderaan was no longer a monarchy but a democracy. Kings and Queens in today's world, hold little to no power anymore....besides no one really cared it seems because the adoption was common knowledge among the court.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Angedechu]

With monarchs that are not elected.

 

''Democracy'' and ''hereditary monarchy'' is not antinomic. Lots of perfectyly democratic European countries have hereditary monarchs, and they conserved considerable powers up to very recently.

 

Exemple : Queen Victoria was the head of a (relative) democracy, and she had considerable hold on politics.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Angedechu

[ZionHalcyon]

Another thing the twins being hidden it is quite possible that a lot of people could have assume when Padme died the children she was carrying died also. In such case no one would have been looking for them so taking Luke to his uncle was probably the best idea since it was in the outer rim and no one would question Bail and his wife adopting, since he did state they had wanted a girl for a long time.

 

Remember her funeral, in her funeral she was made to look still pregant. I read someting once regarding that:

 

 

After her death in childbirth on Polis Massa, Amidala's body was returned to Naboo for the proper funeral rites. In order to hide the fact that Amidala's children survived, her body was prepared to still appear pregnant. Her maternal grandmother, Ryoo Thule, oversaw Amidala's burial, as per Naboo custom.

 

Amidala's body in her casket as it is drawn through the streets of Theed.

Drawn through the streets of Theed in a four-gualaar carriage, Amidala's body was seen as drowning in a watery casket, as her funeral gown was several different shades of blue and her hair was fanned appropriately. The japor snippet given to her by her secret husband, Anakin Skywalker, thirteen years earlier rested in her folded hands as well. Thousands of mourners witnessed or followed the procession, which was led by Queen Apailana, Amidala's family, the Royal Advisory Council, Boss Rugor Nass, Representative Jar Jar Binks, and her former handmaidens, who acted as pallbearers.

 

According to Naboo tradition, no autopsy was performed on Amidala's body, though Amidala's friend and colleague, Senator Silya Shessaun, attempted to start an investigation to look further into Amidala's untimely death. Shessaun's efforts were thwarted by the newly-appointed Emperor Palpatine, citing "security concerns."

 

Six months later, Inquisitor Malorum traveled to Naboo seeking information on Amidala and her pregnancy, suspecting that her child might have survived. He interrogated Ryoo Thule, since she had overseen her granddaughter's body and burial. When she refused to give him the information he sought, he killed her

 

 

Keep in mind too, Anakin only knew pre-spousal abuse that Padme was preggers. No one had any idea she was having twins until Polis Massa. That helps with Leia. For Luke, he was on the very planet Vader was a slave on - I doubt Darth made house calls.

[Holzy]

Keep in mind too, Anakin only knew pre-spousal abuse that Padme was preggers. No one had any idea she was having twins until Polis Massa. That helps with Leia. For Luke, he was on the very planet Vader was a slave on - I doubt Darth made house calls.

 

The only reason Anakin was a slave on the same planet as Luke is because George Lucas thought he would sell more tickets if he had more dumb **** happen on tattooine.

 

Same with this game. Tattooine, a "backwater" planet sure is a major friggin hub of this galaxy.

[MajorPete]

Well Vader(Anakin) was never aware that there were two kids, let alone he was told by the emperor about Padme's death and assumed the child died also. Thus they paid no mind to the name Skywalker as Shmi had family on Tattooine, and Vader knew about it, but had no idea that the family he knew there was raising his child.

[psandak]

With regard to Bail Organa's part in the rebel alliance...

 

The rebel alliance did not really get going until just before ANH; per Han Solo Trilogy book 3 "Rebel Dawn" (the first meetings were held in Cloud City iirc). So, Bail Organa like Yoda and Obi Wan bided his time for many years. Yes, in the interim he probably opposed a lot of what the Emperor chose to do. But like in the PT Palpatine was smart enough to NOT kill all who opposed him. By keeping a small opposition group in the senate, it would appear to all that at least the Emperor was listening to all sides.

 

As to Leia "knowing her mother" (per RotJ). No one but GL knows who she was really talking about. Assuming she was talking about Padme, in reality there have been very rare instances where individuals do have memories of the womb (unprovable of course). Now add the Force to that and who knows what's possible.

 

As to adoption - as so many have said, RL has zero bearing on the fantasy that is SW. But even if we can apply RL to fantasy, adoption is not unheard of in royalty. And even if the royal line of Alderaan would not have passed to Leia she would still be a "princess". Lastly, who cares because Bail Organa was still alive during the events of ANH until the Death Star blew up the planet.

[MajorPete]

The only reason Anakin was a slave on the same planet as Luke is because George Lucas thought he would sell more tickets if he had more dumb **** happen on tattooine.

 

Same with this game. Tattooine, a "backwater" planet sure is a major friggin hub of this galaxy.

 

Tattooine is considered a backwater planet because of all the scum and mercenary work that goes through there, it is for sure a major hub, but nobody who wants to live a normal life would ever want to go there is what they were trying to get across.

[psandak]

Tattooine is considered a backwater planet because of all the scum and mercenary work that goes through there, it is for sure a major hub, but nobody who wants to live a normal life would ever want to go there is what they were trying to get across.

 

Not to mention that during all the movies it is in Hutt controlled space; beyond the purview of the Republic/Empire.

[Tuscad]

The plan at the end of ROTS is ''hide the children away, so the Emperor can't find them''

 

Ok, I admit that the most obvious way to not prevent the kids to fall into the Emperor hands is probably ouf of question since you need the kids to save the galaxy, but this plan was so baffingly incompetently executed that it's boggling the mind.....

 

Without ignoring the whole ''let's hide Luke Skywalker on Tatooine, with is in-laws, without even giving him a fake name'' , let's see the genial decision of hiding a savior of the galaxy as the adoptive daughter of Bail Organa

 

1)Yoda, you just fought Darth Sidious. You know Bail Organa was one of the fiercest opponents of Palpatine. One and One can you add, Yoda ? Sidious made a whole war to get to power, don't you think there is a huge chance he try at some point to kill Organa who nagged him during all the Clone Wars ?

 

2)Bail, considering you have as your ward one absolutely vital asset for the Galaxy, have you considered trying to turn away from a career in politics, especially one that will have her meeting on a regular basis Sidious ? (granted, Bail probably did not knew Anakin was Vader...) As, you know, a Sith can recognize a force user when the plot call for it. Is this really necessary to send her into missions for the Rebellion that have a huge risk to get her killed, when any Alderaan senator (yourself included) could have done the trick ?

 

3)And this is the most baffling one. Who ever thought that adopting a kid would be a good idea for the royalty ? Especially as this is supposed to be secret, and that the Queen was a public figure, who had 5 miscarriages previously. How the hell you are going to explain to the media that your wife delivered a healthty girl when she make daily appearances ? (Not to mention that Bail have a lot of parents that would be delighted to ask questions about the newborn, as the newborn compromise their jobs chances...)

 

The Force Unleashed makes it clear that Bail knew that Anakin was Darth Vader.

[Angedechu]

Not to insist, but most monarchies in SW seems to function akin to Earth monarchies.

 

Notably, the Hapans.

[davidpop]

Sidious didnt know that Luke and Leia was born, in the furnarel scence you can see that Padme still has her stomach when they bury her, as far as Sidious knows she died while still being pregenant, so he got no reason to look for the twins.

[FalmeseReb]

Exept Leia obviously think Bail is her true father.

 

As for monarchy rules, Bail and his wife got wed together for avoid a feud between families on Alderaan

 

Do you imagine the amount of bloody outrage there would be from Organa and Antilles family if Bail decided to just adopt ?

 

Leia didn't know she was adopted. I think the Organas were passing Leia off as their heir.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Leia didn't know she was adopted. I think the Organas were passing Leia off as their heir.

 

She did know she was, and ya they were. But again, none of it really matters since Alderaan was destroyed.