Betraying

[HeavensAgent]

And even if you made it so you can't betray until level 50 and did all the stories, it's still considered class changing, and therefore illegal in the MMO world.

I, too, have to disagree on this point. Many games support well-done betrayal system. SWTOR, however, isn't one of those due to the way story is used to define one's character. No other title in the industry boasts this focus on identity development. Edited April 2, 2012 by HeavensAgent

[SethMorganaa]

The original post was asking a sincere question.

 

I also have trouble with reading.

 

Sounds like nergin replies to me. Why be so nasty? Need an ice-cream cone to cheer you up? Theres a good kid. Now off you go and play, and remember be back for dinner.

Edited April 2, 2012 by SethMorganaa

[SethMorganaa]

I totally agree:)))

[Dalkeyras]

Actually a betrayal quest line could add so much more to the game, and it makes more sense than having darkside Jedi, whom are still part of the jedi council - what remain of it - which by its very code can't allow darkjedi in, which is what a jedi class with darkside points is, a dark jedi.

 

BW should have looked at this more closely, having republic force users the scope to choose the darkside, should have led to a betrayal quest, or some form of expulsion from the Jedi Order - afterall they stand for everything the Jedi Order abhorrs.

 

Making a betrayal quest has less messed up feeling to it than darkside jedi already has.

[HeavensAgent]

Actually a betrayal quest line could add so much more to the game, and it makes more sense than having darkside Jedi, whom are still part of the jedi council - what remain of it - which by its very code can't allow darkjedi in, which is what a jedi class with darkside points is, a dark jedi.

That's not true in this era. The stresses of war have forced the Council to lessen their constraints and strict adherence to the Code. Dark Jedi are tolerated so long as their actions still serve the overall best interest of the Republic.

[flyersfan]

I don't want to "betray." I just want to play an Agent on the Republic side because the Smuggler sucks and I want to play a Trooper on the Empire side because I prefer it by leaps and bounds. I'm also not looking for a faction swap. I'd rather just have new classes.

[Zilrota]

Hello all,

 

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[flobdeth]

Vader isn't even born yet!..............

[Baz_Kahuna]

Heh as it works very well in Everquest 2, I dont think it is illegal

It is, I'm pretty certain under International Law MMOs are banned from having faction changes... China and Russia vetoed action against EQ2 on the UN Security Council

[Xanoth]

One of the things that bugs me the most is lack of a betrayal quest anywhere in the story, with BioWares reputation I honestly expected better. A strong story focused MMO that gives players choices. Using a setting where the most iconic sci-fi character of all time went from the light side to the dark side in his own epic story.

 

Yet some forums trolls in this thread feel the need to berate others for wanting this as part of their own character.

 

What strikes me the most, and why much of the logic (or lack of) presented in this thread against the idea is that countless NPCs all around you as you take your journey from 1-50 and beyond do exactly what is being asked/suggested. They have betrayed their own faction and defected. Anyone that read the quests they did and went searching for side quests will have probably found dozens of NPCs who for one reason or another changed faction. This is even true for a large proportion of player companions, never mind quest givers/updates.

 

Anyone who thinks that all dark jedi choices still only benefit the republic but simply chose a darker route clearly hit space2space2 a few too many times during their play through. Many times you're given the choices to pursue personal power, revenge and greed.

 

Also the comment about the council being lenient about dark jedi seems somewhat laughable. Don't mistake BioWare being lazy in letting the player be evil without being forced out of the republic/jedi order and actual canon for the era. Even in game this point is shown before Jedi players reach level 10, never mind if you go reading outside the game lore. light reading.

 

Also there is a complete lack of neutrality available to the player, when again huge swathes of NPCs would be considered Neutral or in some cases their loyalties would be for sale. Really the republic wouldn't hire a bounty hunter? not even one? I find it unlikely. Especially when NPCs that are republic faction are blatantly equipped with Agnet/Bountry hunter gear or companions that use those tools and fighting styles.

 

So to those that don't want to betray or don't like the idea, at least just say it how it is rather than making things up.

 

Fact of the matter is, BioWare didn't make the player stories compatible with faction changing. Which is why enabling it at level 50 after completing your final story quest does seem viable, the main question is how that might impact future class story quests and if BioWare is willing to go that route and put in the extra time and effort needed to pull it off. I honestly think they won't, and I'm not angry at them for that or think badly of them for it. Their focus just doesn't have proper scope for faction changing and I doubt think they'd be able to do it justice with a bandaid fix without it coming back to bite them in the butt at every turn because of the intricate nature of the class story arcs.

 

I'd love to see faction change added as a possibility, but I just don't see it happening. It wouldn't make good use of developer for money invested into adding this feature compared to other things they could achieve with that amount of investment to other areas of the game.

 

Players that want to have a story similar to that of Kira Carsen are sadly unlikely to get it first hand from SWTOR. It's just one of the limitations that can't really be helped.

[Madgedull]

Nice reply Xanoth, though I will still be hoping at some point in the future it happens

[Baz_Kahuna]

That doesn't demonstrate a factional shift. In fact neither Obi Wan nor Yoda were members of the Rebellion.

 

I've read your posts on the subject, and they're insufficient to address the problems inherent in the idea you propose.

 

A level 50-only transition would be a horrible idea. The emphasis in this game is about story, and this would force player character to champion their initial faction and become a legend before even attempting to switch side. Additionally, not everyone completes their class story by the level cap; what happens to the remainder of their personal journey when the switch allegiances?

 

To be an integral part of a character's story, such a transition would need to take place while the character was progressing through his or her plot. This would require eight entirely new "betrayal" storylines and a retooling of several worlds, possibly all, to accommodate new private story areas. Then their story has to be continued once the transition is made; becoming a member of a different class at the end is nonsense. You're not altering the training or experiences you received in the past. You can't simply become an Inquisitor and know all of an Inquisitor's techniques. You would either have continue advancing in the abilities of your original class or begin your training from the beginning.

 

Because you've made it clear you don't want to start over, lets go with continuing your existing training. Well, you'll either need to find trainers capable of continuing your education on the enemy faction, which doesn't make much sense, or develop a synthesis of the techniques of both faction, which would require an entirely new ability set. Next, stepping into the other faction's storylines doesn't make sense. You still have your unique background, not that of your other-faction equivalent. An alternate story line would have to be created. This would require more voice acting, new content design, and a retooling of all worlds to accommodate the new content. This would have to be done for all 8 fallen classes.

 

You might as well be suggesting the developers begin the game's initial design process all over again. You're not considering the full implications of your idea, which is another reason why you should have looked at existing posts on the topic before posting. Nothing I'm saying here is new.

 

Interesting, I especially like the bit where you say "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ".

Edited April 2, 2012 by Baz_Kahuna

[Roccobb]

For the record, when I said the idea is stupid, I meant the idea. Not the poster. So deleting a post because I call an idea stupid is ridiculous. It has been discussed too many times in the past why it is a stupid idea. The poster is probably a very smart person, and I wish him no will ill.

[Nomeld]

Sure the classes are mirrors gameplay wise but they are not lore wise, Jedi and Sith training don't have much in common... Raven had to learn the ways of the Sith and had to relearn the ways of the Jedi, He didn't do that lightly(or particularly willingly)... In the end he was nether Jedi or Sith...

 

A Sith rejecting the empire and fighting for the republic is possible as is a Jedi turning to the darkside and joining the empire... But forgetting all your training to retrain within the Jedi order sounds silly to me.

 

Faction change makes a tad more lore sense than class change to me.

[HeavensAgent]

Yes, some of the removals may have been justified, but the thread was overzealously moderated; valid contributions made by all involved were removed.

 

Interesting, I especially like the bit where you say "blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ".

Thank you for illustrating my point. There are a ton of barriers that would need to be overcome before this suggestion would be viable. I imagine I even overlooked a few.

 

Oh, and because it was never seen, and I honestly don't remember who it was that made the post -- to EmoticonFan: Don't worry about it, I didn't perceive any insult, and I want to take the time to share my own personal favorite: