About Karen Traviss Hate...

[Aximand]

If you call something a Fact but have no grounds for that Fact than it becomes OPINION . As all I have seen from you Walsh and Captain . OPINIONS

 

It coming from a creditable site owned by Lucas or Lucas arts would make it a FACT what you are saying. Everything else is just someones OPINION and if you do not like her and you and others like Walsh have stated as such , it is just that OPINION .

 

Just because you're too lazy to look up the things that Walsh told you to look up doesn't make a fact an opinion. You like to say that all we have is opinion all the time, when you've constantly never given a single factual piece of evidence to back up any of your claims. So far, your whole argument consists of plugging your ears and going "NANANANA IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY ITS JUST AN OPINION!!!!". Debate doesn't work that way.

[mefit]

Well said. Apparently, if it doesn't come from Lucas's official site, it doesn't exist.

 

News Flash, mefit. NOT all decisions in the ExU are made by GEORGE LUCAS! He has underlings and middle managers to handle that stuff for him. In fact, the ONLY characters in the ExU books that he had to give his permission to kill were Crix Madine and Chewbacca. Unless some other movie characters have died there, that fact stands.

 

Now, IF any other movie characters have died since them, George WAS consulted. Otherwise, his control of the ExU isn't that hands-on.

 

News Flash Captain, all things StarWars are owned and decided by Lucas . To be honest you guys have nothing to offer in the debate other than alot of opinions but its ok keep going .

[mefit]

Just because you're too lazy to look up the things that Walsh told you to look up doesn't make a fact an opinion. You like to say that all we have is opinion all the time, when you've constantly never given a single factual piece of evidence to back up any of your claims. So far, your whole argument consists of plugging your ears and going "NANANANA IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE I SAY ITS JUST AN OPINION!!!!". Debate doesn't work that way.

 

Its not lazy , it just isn't worth my time . It is not from a direct source so it is just a opinion, just because you reply on Walsh for your facts does not mean we all do :/

[mefit]

Irony, thy name is mefit. Google translate would choke trying to parse the quote above.

 

Irony is all you have is insults lol

 

But I mean what am I to expect from people who take characters who are not living seriously enough to go on a daily bases attacking a real life woman .

Edited April 1, 2012 by mefit

[Fyurii]

"About Karen Traviss Hate..." is the 3rd thread to do with Karen on these forums

My characteriztion of the thread is correct in the posting manor of the bullies of Karen's name . Justifiably

There is no distraction other than short minded people getting heated about facts .

 

Invictos this is my first reply to you and really so I could never have said you claimed anything so lol.

 

Short sighted, or closed minded. No such thing as short minded. Many are certainly guilty of the latter, but not all of the former.

 

I will say this though, and it is as much targeted to you as others who do the same.

Despite blatant evidence of Traviss' ignoring canon that existed before she began work on post-RoTJ EU, some people refuse to believe it at all.

 

The kind of people who most often frequent (and often start) threads like this are either pro-Traviss or anti-Traviss.

For me, the most zealous of pro-Traviss fans deliberately remain ignorant to the things she did wrong, and refuse to see her in any other light than shining brightly as a beacon of great writing.

 

The more reasonable fans of Traviss' works are almost always the ones who liked her Clone Commandos books (though I've heard some weren't happy with Hard Contact) but didn't like her other works in the EU.

When those fans are acheiving consensus with anti-Traviss fans about her contributions to Star Wars, it merely shows the "die-hard" Traviss fans as unreasonable and blind.

 

Yes, yes she did write that series. Which is lulzy as hell and explains a lot about her hippy communist farmer Mandalorians.

 

That synopsis actually made me spit a mouthful of beer onto the carpet... Sounds like one of the worst piles of drivel ever written. A close second to any L Ron Hubbard book.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Fyurii

[mefit]

Short sighted, or closed minded. No such thing as short minded. Many are certainly guilty of the latter, but not all of the former.

 

I will say this though, and it is as much targeted to you as others who do the same.

Despite blatant evidence of Traviss' ignoring canon that existed before she began work on post-RoTJ EU, some people refuse to believe it at all.

 

The kind of people who most often frequent (and often start) threads like this are either pro-Traviss or anti-Traviss.

For me, the most zealous of pro-Traviss fans deliberately remain ignorant to the things she did wrong, and refuse to see her in any other light than shining brightly as a beacon of great writing.

 

The more reasonable fans of Traviss' works are almost always the ones who liked her Clone Commandos books (though I've heard some weren't happy with Hard Contact) but didn't like her other works in the EU.

When those fans are acheiving consensus with anti-Traviss fans about her contributions to Star Wars, it merely shows the "die-hard" Traviss fans as unreasonable and blind.

 

No one in Lucas Arts is saying anything you said above, so its all Opinion sorry .

[Captain_Zone]

News Flash Captain, all things StarWars are owned and decided by Lucas . To be honest you guys have nothing to offer in the debate other than alot of opinions but its ok keep going .

 

Umm, no. You obviously haven't seen his interview about the Expanded Universe, and how he doesn't even read the books, have you? I DO believe that is also on youtube, and no, I'm not going to link it for you. You won't go check, because it will blow your arguments out of the water. That's fine. Keep huffing and puffing.

[mefit]

Umm, no. You obviously haven't seen his interview about the Expanded Universe, and how he doesn't even read the books, have you? I DO believe that is also on youtube, and no, I'm not going to link it for you. You won't go check, because it will blow your arguments out of the water. That's fine. Keep huffing and puffing.

 

Lucas has been involved in any changes to the series including deaths and sometimes new characters. Just because Walsh or someone on Youtube with a Opinion stated it doesn't make it facts .............kinda like anything Wiki but you can go on believeing anything you want if that makes you happy lol

[Invictos]

Irony is all you have is insults lol

 

But I mean what am I to expect from people who take characters who are not living seriously enough to go on a daily bases attacking a real life woman .

 

And all you have, apparently, is distortion and an amusingly incoherent air of superiority. Never once did I attack Karen Traviss personally, except on the basis of her behavior. But hey, continue on your mealy-mouthed crusade. I think it'll be pretty clear to anyone who bothers to read the thread how much your opinion's worth.

 

With that said, you deserve some credit: by provoking this little flame war, you've achieved your goal of distracting from any substantive discussion about the author's work and her conduct. Grats.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Invictos

[mefit]

I promise Karen won't be the last to kill a fan favorite character , and the same thing will be said about that person just like Karen and Salvator . It just does not end at all because fanboys cannot live their own lives and have to stay in the Novels with these characters to the bitter end.

[Aximand]

That synopsis actually made me spit a mouthful of beer onto the carpet... Sounds like one of the worst piles of drivel ever written. A close second to any L Ron Hubbard book.

 

I actually couldn't read the whole thing I was laughing too hard.

[mefit]

And all you have, apparently, is distortion and an amusingly incoherent air of superiority. Never once did I attack Karen Traviss personally, except on the basis of her behavior. But hey, continue on your mealy-mouthed crusade. I think it'll be pretty clear to anyone who bothers to read the thread how much your opinion's worth.

 

With that said, you deserve some credit: by provoking this little flame war, you've achieved your goal of distracting from any substantive discussion about the author's work and her conduct. Grats.

 

Provoking ? I did not make this thread and I am not the one flaming , you are . Anyway you can feel inocent in your attacks and justify them , keep going buddy . As for distraction ? I am on topic while you are on me so whos distracting?

 

By not agreeing to the endless attacks on Karen has given me a flame war ? Ok well I am happy that I am not someone who is on that same page with you.

Edited April 1, 2012 by mefit

[mefit]

I actually couldn't read the whole thing I was laughing too hard.

 

Really no suprise there at all .

[Invictos]

Provoking ? I did not make this thread and I am not the one flaming , you are . Anyway you can feel inocent in your attacks and justify them , keep going buddy . As for distraction ? I am on topic while you are on me so whos distracting?

 

If you think I've attacked Karen personally, quote it, or be silent. For all of your posturing about facts, you seem to have little understanding of evidence. I posted a rundown of the woman's public behavior. You responded by saying, "David Prowse is also disgruntled about LucasArts," which is a blatant and irrefutable attempt (at best) to derail the course of the discussion.

 

At worst, it's a transparent and obnoxious distortion. No, I don't take kindly to those.

 

From there, you went on (in spectacularly ironic fashion) to mock me for writing unclearly. ("I don't understand Invictos language.") You are, from what I've seen, a walking, talking logical fallacy whose favorite meme is (again ironically) to decry others' lack of logic. Happily, your brand of argumentation typically doesn't do the argumenter's position any favors.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Invictos

[ProfessorWalsh]

Red ME

 

Yes, so you would try to make it harder for me to rebuke you instead of having the courtesy to break it up.

 

They are not wipped out , more like they have always been ......spread out !

 

Nope. The book specifically said they were wiped out, not spread out.

 

Sure you are. Thats why you mention "kid" as a insult lol.

 

Yes. I am. This isn't in dispute and for you to even try to do so says that you have done no research what so ever on who you are arguing with. My credentials have been placed on these very forums more than once. You were simply trying to insult me because you don't have any argument to stand on.

 

You made alot of personal attacks toward someone out of personal opinion with no facts to back it up as you have not posted any links to any Offical site that would be Lucas owned, anything else is here say!

 

The statements of her coworkers are not what I would call hearsay. I told you specifically what information you could look up. That you have chosen not to do so is your folly not mine.

 

Alot of Mando fans would argue otherwise, as you are extremely biased in your opinions toward her.

 

This isn't a matter of opinion actually.

 

They complain about Jedi, they talk down about them, specifically regarding things their own people do.

 

Mandalorians, for example, frequently raid defenseless outposts. They murder the men, and any women remaining are used as it were, and children are taken to be raised as Mandos. Yet these same people decry the Jedi practice of taking Force Sensitive children and refer to them as kidnappers which is not only completely incorrect terminology from a legal standpoint within the Republic but it is far more courteous than murdering the children's parents first.

 

In the KotOR era they respected worthy enemies. They respected the Jedi. They weren't sore losers regarding the events of the war. In the Karen Traviss universe they take any chance they can to downplay and slander the Jedi out of nothing but petty insecurity, this is doubly true as they never were able to back up their boasts.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Its not lazy , it just isn't worth my time . It is not from a direct source so it is just a opinion, just because you reply on Walsh for your facts does not mean we all do :/

 

You should go look at those videos. Those are comments from the people who worked with her. Heck one of the people in the SDCC 2009 panel was the person who was the head editor for the Star Wars book series under the Bantam label. That is as official as you can get.

[Captain_Zone]

If you think I've attacked Karen personally, quote it, or be silent. For all of your posturing about facts, you seem to have little understanding of evidence. I posted a rundown of the woman's public behavior. You responded by saying, "David Prowse is also disgruntled about LucasArts," which is a blatant and irrefutable attempt (at best) to derail the course of the discussion.

 

At worst, it's a transparent and obnoxious distortion. No, I don't take kindly to those.

 

From there, you went on (in spectacularly ironic fashion) to mock me for writing unclearly. ("I don't understand Invictos language.") You are, from what I've seen, a walking, talking logical fallacy whose favorite meme is (again ironically) to decry others' lack of logic. Happily, your brand of argumentation typically doesn't do the argumenter's position any favors.

 

Well, you're a better person than I am. I've attacked her on here, and I make no apologies for it. She's a ***** and a ******* as far as I'm concerned. The things she did to the Expanded Universe are trash, and I AM opinionated about her. What makes it even worse was that she didn't circumvent and go behind her former colleagues' backs to do that stuff like I had thought she had. She basically told them she was going to do it and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it. How messed up is that?

Edited April 1, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Captain_Zone]

You should go look at those videos. Those are comments from the people who worked with her. Heck one of the people in the SDCC 2009 panel was the person who was the head editor for the Star Wars book series under the Bantam label. That is as official as you can get.

 

I watched them, prof. Good stuff, man.

[mefit]

If you think I've attacked Karen personally, quote it, or be silent. For all of your posturing about facts, you seem to have little understanding of evidence. I posted a rundown of the woman's public behavior. You responded by saying, "David Prowse is also disgruntled about LucasArts," which is a blatant and irrefutable attempt (at best) to derail the course of the discussion.

 

At worst, it's a transparent and obnoxious distortion. No, I don't take kindly to those.

 

From there, you went on (in spectacularly ironic fashion) to mock me for writing unclearly. ("I don't understand Invictos language.") You are, from what I've seen, a walking, talking logical fallacy whose favorite meme is (again ironically) to decry others' lack of logic. Happily, your brand of argumentation typically doesn't do the argumenter's position any favors.

 

Find something Offical stating she said those things , show me a video ? I have no stated you are wrong in those statements either but I think thats all the arguement you really have .

You from what I have seen cannot make a post without insulting someone

Insulting doesn't benifite your arguement either . Just saying

[Invictos]

You should go look at those videos. Those are comments from the people who worked with her. Heck one of the people in the SDCC 2009 panel was the person who was the head editor for the Star Wars book series under the Bantam label. That is as official as you can get.

 

Yeah, not sure what kind of official statement anyone can expect. A press release blackballing a former employee? The legal department would love that one.

 

The fact that people are even willing to talk about her at public gatherings is a pretty strong statement, frankly. She must've made a hell of an impression.

[mefit]

You should go look at those videos. Those are comments from the people who worked with her. Heck one of the people in the SDCC 2009 panel was the person who was the head editor for the Star Wars book series under the Bantam label. That is as official as you can get.

 

Again opinion not facts but that seems to be all you can produce. Normally I would be right there with you but it just gets old doesn't it?

 

I mean she left , quit , got fired ......nobody really knows because neither her or LucasArts has said anything on the matter . Either or chuck it up for a win for you and your type of people . Can I blame her , no . But Will I sit here while the forums are litered with Online Bullying and abuse of a human being no .

 

This is a Video game forums and what you guys are bringing is completely negative to the StarWars community , her being right or wrong in her own actions doesn't make you right either.

[Invictos]

Find something Offical stating she said those things , show me a video ? I have no stated you are wrong in those statements either but I think thats all the arguement you really have .

 

What, like her own bleeping website? It's clear by now that you're just willfully blind. Every statement of hers that I cited can be found there.

 

You from what I have seen cannot make a post without insulting someone

Insulting doesn't benifite your arguement either . Just saying

 

It would be a wasted effort to refer you to my posting history, because you've shown an unwillingness to search for evidence of any kind. Suffice to say that you are the first person who's provoked a hostile response from me on this board. That's saying something. One last tip: If you're going to mock other people for being incoherent, learn how to write first. Just saying.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Invictos

[darthkargtor]

Hmm pie.

 

don't you all love pie?

 

Well i don't but im sure at least some of you do

 

Now lets end this thread and have some nice pie as this topic is fruitless with both sides having to many facts and points to come to a fair and honest conclusion as all evidence and facts are now most likely gone for ever as the event that has caused so much hate was long ago and anything remaining is a tall tale told for years.

[mefit]

Yeah, not sure what kind of official statement anyone can expect. A press release blackballing a former employee? The legal department would love that one.

 

The fact that people are even willing to talk about her at public gatherings is a pretty strong statement, frankly. She must've made a hell of an impression.

 

Fact is there is no Legal or illegal statement from her or her employers "LucasArts" , so everything on her leaving is here say.

I can agree she did handle canon oddly but she was not the first or last. One can argue that EU really has tampered with canon anyways as the Story really ends after ROTJ as Lucas has stated.

 

What she said about those fans who attacked her shown her go down to her level but no one on these threads are any better . Including you who HAS insulted me with names in this very thread.

But she is not continueing to talk about anything starwars and has moved on to other projects , and you and others are still stuck on her.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Fact is there is no Legal or illegal statement from her or her employers "LucasArts" , so everything on her leaving is here say.

I can agree she did handle canon oddly but she was not the first or last. One can argue that EU really has tampered with canon anyways as the Story really ends after ROTJ as Lucas has stated.

 

What she said about those fans who attacked her shown her go down to her level but no one on these threads are any better . Including you who HAS insulted me with names in this very thread.

But she is not continueing to talk about anything starwars and has moved on to other projects , and you and others are still stuck on her.

 

The reason for this is because she damaged the Star Wars universe in such a severe way that it has taken years for authors to finally erase most of what she has done. Authors are still trying to fix things even now because of her.

 

Also no, it isn't opinion, direct, public, video statements from Karen Traviss' boss (which are in that SDCC video) are not "opinion" as you put it.