Varicite Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 No, no I didn't. "We didn't engineer the game and classes and balance around it, we just added it on, so it continues to be very difficult to balance." - Rob Pardo Just adding it on, is exactly what these arena posts keep asking for, "gif arena naw, we demanded it!!!1". They want it tacked on, and done now, "else me and every1 will the quit". You fail to mention the fact that he was talking about the fact that WoW was not balanced for PvP AT ALL at that point. They never had to, because WoW PvP was tacked on, and not designed to be a part of the game from the start like SWTOR. SWTOR class balance already trumps WoW class balance at the beginning of S1 by miles. You also fail to mention the fact that WoW's Arenas were picked up as an e-sport INCREDIBLY early in their lifespan (during S2, iirc), due to the huge potential audience. This created an extreme focus on an area of the game that was never intended to be balanced around: small-scale PvP. Third, you've failed to mention that at the inception of Arenas, there was NO other form of competitive PvP in the game at all. Rated BGs didn't come out until 2 expansion cycles (almost 4 years) later. The measure of a player's "skill" was solely dictated by their Arena rating, which was mostly determined by their team composition. I played Mage/Lock 2v2 during the first 3 seasons, and never made it past 1800. People probably don't recall this, but it was not a great time to be a mage back in TBC era. And lastly, you failed to mention that the highest-end PvP rewards were given out only through Arena, w/ gear that rivaled top-end raiding gear in some slots. This funneled pretty much EVERYONE into Arena, whether they liked PvP or not, because they wanted to remain competitive in Battlegrounds, raiding, world PvP, etc. Arena was the gateway for pretty much anything you wanted to do for a long time. Those are some pretty important points you failed to mention, and it seems like assuming that SWTOR Arena and WoW Arena would be the exact same thing is just silly, because there are already huge, glaring differences already. You need to take all of these things into consideration when talking about that quote, which is why I said you were taking it out of context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 You fail to mention the fact that he was talking about the fact that WoW was not balanced for PvP AT ALL at that point. what a load of bunk. blizzard made quite a few pvp balances pre-arena. see 'lock chain fear nerfs, pali abilities to undead players, the worg pup nerf, stunlock nerf, weapon damage normalization, etc... what they didn't do was balance around duels in a box, because with an MMO it's impossible to have interesting and unique classes/abilities while being perfectly balanced for 3 man groups. now you have a bunch of abilities homogenized to the point that the animations and icons are the only real differences between classes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) what a load of bunk. blizzard made quite a few pvp balances pre-arena. see 'lock chain fear nerfs, pali abilities to undead players, the worg pup nerf, stunlock nerf, weapon damage normalization, etc... what they didn't do was balance around duels in a box, because with an MMO it's impossible to have interesting and unique classes/abilities while being perfectly balanced for 3 man groups. now you have a bunch of abilities homogenized to the point that the animations and icons are the only real differences between classes... There were some changes made prior to TBC, it's true, but I wouldn't say that they were anywhere close to the overhauls that were made during the "class reviews" right before TBC, or the crazy balancing acts that occurred afterward. I saw those more as "okay, this stuff is grossly broken, and needs to be fixed". After 2.0 came around is when WoW started becoming the WoW you're talking about in your 2nd paragraph, and is really what I'm talking about when I talk about how they had to balance around small-scale PvP. Edited April 2, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karandor Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 You fail to mention the fact that he was talking about the fact that WoW was not balanced for PvP AT ALL at that point. They never had to, because WoW PvP was tacked on, and not designed to be a part of the game from the start like SWTOR. SWTOR class balance already trumps WoW class balance at the beginning of S1 by miles. You also fail to mention the fact that WoW's Arenas were picked up as an e-sport INCREDIBLY early in their lifespan (during S2, iirc), due to the huge potential audience. This created an extreme focus on an area of the game that was never intended to be balanced around: small-scale PvP. Third, you've failed to mention that at the inception of Arenas, there was NO other form of competitive PvP in the game at all. Rated BGs didn't come out until 2 expansion cycles (almost 4 years) later. The measure of a player's "skill" was solely dictated by their Arena rating, which was mostly determined by their team composition. I played Mage/Lock 2v2 during the first 3 seasons, and never made it past 1800. People probably don't recall this, but it was not a great time to be a mage back in TBC era. And lastly, you failed to mention that the highest-end PvP rewards were given out only through Arena, w/ gear that rivaled top-end raiding gear in some slots. This funneled pretty much EVERYONE into Arena, whether they liked PvP or not, because they wanted to remain competitive in Battlegrounds, raiding, world PvP, etc. Arena was the gateway for pretty much anything you wanted to do for a long time. Those are some pretty important points you failed to mention, and it seems like assuming that SWTOR Arena and WoW Arena would be the exact same thing is just silly, because there are already huge, glaring differences already. You need to take all of these things into consideration when talking about that quote, which is why I said you were taking it out of context. Good points. If arena isn't the only way to get PvP gear then the pressure to balance around it will be much lower. Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with that implementation. Having rated WZs exist before any arenas happen could help solve the problem. Also in Guildwars it was implemented fairly well with there being both arena style PvP and objective based PvP (which was taken more seriously). The key is making rewards available for all styles of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalez Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 People that PvP'd in WoW thinking they are hardcore Pvper's.....just ......WoW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broganthomas Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Good points. If arena isn't the only way to get PvP gear then the pressure to balance around it will be much lower. Blizzard shot themselves in the foot with that implementation. Having rated WZs exist before any arenas happen could help solve the problem. Also in Guildwars it was implemented fairly well with there being both arena style PvP and objective based PvP (which was taken more seriously). The key is making rewards available for all styles of play. Yeah I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swidgin Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 / agree Whats the hold up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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