lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Darth Traya is a controversial topic. She was never really dark, she was grey... She became sith because it made her more powerful simply because of her hatred of the force, she never really embraced their ideas, other than slaughter the jedi, which was again because of her hatred of the force. You notice these things by comparing her to sion and nihilus. She is completely different from either of them... Revan WAS rather perverted during his reign as dark lord... She is dark side she is either in denial or hiding it because if you EVER agree with her in conversations you get smacked with dark side points. Majority of her approval comes from dark side actions. Like convincing a begger who is sick to commit suicide or tricking a scavenger that all the monsters are gone getting him killed in the process. Plus if you are dark side she has a conversation with you about controlling your killing urges and throwing people away once they are no longer useful. After she says that she says the line in my sig to me majority of her coversations are on how to be a sith. Edited March 28, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 She was also a great jedi master in her day... But how could she be sith, if to be sith is generally wanting to dominate the galaxy through the force, and Traya wishes to dominate the galaxy through the destruction of the force, she was More Dark Side than light, but she didnt really follow the force anyway. I guess if you think more about the last few months of her life she was darkside, but she spent the years before in exile alone without the force... So were many. I never said Sith, I said Dark Sider, the Sith aren't the Dark Side, if anything it is the other way around. I think her vindictiveness and betraying ways were tell tale signs that she was very Dark Sided, with or without the force, she was just much better at hiding it than others and she eventually even hid it from herself. She was quite selfish, even though her teachings led many to the Dark Side, she continued to believe in them, Surik was probably the only Jedi she didn't corrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 She is dark side she is either in denial or hiding it because if you EVER agree with her in conversations you get smacked with dark side points. Majority of her approval comes from dark side actions. Like convincing a begger who is sick to commit suicide or tricking a scavenger that all the monsters are gone getting him killed in the process. Plus if you are dark side she has a conversation with you about controlling your killing urges and throwing people away once they are no longer useful. After she says that she says the line in my sig to me majority of her coversations are on how to be a sith. Nope, her Convos are grey. The killing a beggar thing lost affection, not giving him money gave DS and her affection, she didnt mean to be DS she wanted you to see the big picture, like the fact that you denying him money saved his life cause if u gave him 5 credits he was killed for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So were many. I never said Sith, I said Dark Sider, the Sith aren't the Dark Side, if anything it is the other way around. I think her vindictiveness and betraying ways were tell tale signs that she was very Dark Sided, with or without the force, she was just much better at hiding it than others and she eventually even hid it from herself. She was quite selfish, even though her teachings led many to the Dark Side, she continued to believe in them, Surik was probably the only Jedi she didn't corrupt. Well most of the time saying to kriea that she is wrong and that you will never do what she says nets you light side points plus - minus approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So were many. I never said Sith, I said Dark Sider, the Sith aren't the Dark Side, if anything it is the other way around. I think her vindictiveness and betraying ways were tell tale signs that she was very Dark Sided, with or without the force, she was just much better at hiding it than others and she eventually even hid it from herself. She was quite selfish, even though her teachings led many to the Dark Side, she continued to believe in them, Surik was probably the only Jedi she didn't corrupt. If being selfish means your DS then ima call it that 95% of humans are DS XD Idk, guess we have to agree to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Then why has it been said a million times here that Revan was indeed merely trying to "prepare the Republic for the REAL Sith Empire." Pretty sure that's become conventional wisdom here. There has to be at least SOME truth to it. But in your assertion, you help prove that Revan was indeed strong enough to break free of Vitiate's control, as obviously no pawn of his would be planning what you say against him. Revan was a Dark Lord, DS. He then became a redeemed, LS Jedi Knight again. That's walking both paths I say, not at the same time tho of course. Also, whenever I interacted with Kreia/Traya in KOTOR, she always seemed calm, collected, reflective, & rational to me. Agree to disagree I guess. No, its not. Its canon from Revan's own point of view, he waged war planning to conquer the galaxy and usurp the Sith Emperor from his power, nothing more. Revan isn't the "tragic hero" in the sense that he "had to be the villain to save the world from the bigger villain." Also, I know several people who aren't in their right mind. Just because of that, doesn't mean they all act like the stereotypical asylum patients. Many will seem normal, intelligent, and rationale, in fact all the ones I know are. However, insanity is a mental state, not something so superficial as the way you act. Kreia was in no way a non-corrupted Sith, she was by far the most corrupted. Her philosophy is based on her corruption, no matter what you judge she says is true or not true, and that is fact. Was betraying and killing everyone and trying to destroy the Force and risk killing all life to prove your theory that the galaxy could survive without the Force because YOU believe it is some spiteful, evil deity that is obsessed with keeping balance just so YOU could spite the people who called YOU a fool and a corrupted witch something you would consider not twisted? Her ideology reflects her nature, she was self-centered, her love for the Exile because she was a "symbol" of her theory proves she only loves what proves her right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Well most of the time saying to kriea that she is wrong and that you will never do what she says nets you light side points plus - minus approval. Quick thing, your signature is a saying by kreia that just proves her Neutrality, she is scoldign you saying the Darkside doesnt bring power XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Nope, her Convos are grey. The killing a beggar thing lost affection, not giving him money gave DS and her affection, she didnt mean to be DS she wanted you to see the big picture, like the fact that you denying him money saved his life cause if u gave him 5 credits he was killed for them... Wrong conversation and character. Plus in that scene you can't kill the begger you just tell him to get out of your sight. Also you do not lose any approval from that conversation unless you tell her you don't need her advice or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If being selfish means your DS then ima call it that 95% of humans are DS XD Idk, guess we have to agree to disagree Part of being a Jedi is being selfless, in-fact no, the entire point of being a Jedi is being selfless, she was the exact opposite, just so she could prove her own teachings right, the blood of billions was on her hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Wrong conversation and character. Plus in that scene you can't kill the begger you just tell him to get out of your sight. Also you do not lose any approval from that conversation unless you tell her you don't need her advice or something along those lines. I dont remember ever killing a beggar... My bad... However telling her shes an idiot sticking up for the lightside lost affection but gave u LS, however telling her you did it to be cruel lost affection with her.... Telling her youll learn to think on your actions netted you Zilcho LS or DS, and gained affection with her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Kreia/Traya seemed to still have a good grasp on herself. Kreia was batcrap insane. She wanted to kill the Force which would have subsequently killed all life in the Galaxy because she thought that the Force created destiny and controlled all who lived. She had no grasp on herself, or on reality. So did Revan once he at least partially broke free of Vitiate's control as Dark Lord. Revan had no control over himself. He was corrupted completely and he even turned on the Emperor. He wasn't trying to preserve or save the Republic, he was trying to conquer the Republic to create his own Empire and then destroy the Sith Emperor simply because... Well it is what Sith do. He was so blinded by his ambition (like most Sith) that he didn't even realize that his own apprentice, one Darth Malek, was about to betray him. Are there any others that stick out as unique like that? No canonically confirmed Sith has ever not allowed the Dark Side to control/twist them. It isn't possible, those who use the Dark Side become slaves to it, that is how Star Wars works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Oh, btw Kreia was most definitely evil. She wanted to DESTROY THE FORCE! Hellllooooo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Part of being a Jedi is being selfless, in-fact no, the entire point of being a Jedi is being selfless, she was the exact opposite, just so she could prove her own teachings right, the blood of billions was on her hands. Just because your a force user who isnt a Jedi doesnt mean your Darkside, think of the Voss... or Revan, or Bastilla Shan, they werent Jedi, after Malaks death, but they were not darkside... They were Honorary Jedi so they didnt spread a message of lvoe, but that aint DS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Quick thing, your signature is a saying by kreia that just proves her Neutrality, she is scoldign you saying the Darkside doesnt bring power XD Incorrect, she disapproves of mindless slaughter, just like any Sith with a brain would do, mindless slaughter is not the Sith way, it is a sign of an animal, a brute. she instead suggested that the player use anyone and everyone to his/her advantage till useless and then cast them aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Kreia was batcrap insane. She wanted to kill the Force which would have subsequently killed all life in the Galaxy because she thought that the Force created destiny and controlled all who lived. She had no grasp on herself, or on reality. Revan had no control over himself. He was corrupted completely and he even turned on the Emperor. He wasn't trying to preserve or save the Republic, he was trying to conquer the Republic to create his own Empire and then destroy the Sith Emperor simply because... Well it is what Sith do. He was so blinded by his ambition (like most Sith) that he didn't even realize that his own apprentice, one Darth Malek, was about to betray him. No canonically confirmed Sith has ever not allowed the Dark Side to control/twist them. It isn't possible, those who use the Dark Side become slaves to it, that is how Star Wars works. Read the wise words of walsh as a sith and dark side lore fanatic I twist in my bed whenever someone says kriea is sane or that there has been sith that prevented the dark side from twisting/control them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Vectivus: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vectivus He seems to be a likely candidate. The problem is almost all of the information we have on Darth Vectivus came from Lumiya, a Sith, who was trying to turn Jacen Solo to the Dark Side. The entire story was constructed to convince him that you could use the Dark Side and not be corrupted by it. Due to the source, and the eventual outcome of the use of that story, we have no reason to believe anything Lumiya had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Incorrect, she disapproves of mindless slaughter, just like any Sith with a brain would do, mindless slaughter is not the Sith way, it is a sign of an animal, a brute. she instead suggested that the player use anyone and everyone to his/her advantage till useless and then cast them aside. Agree to disagree? This isnt gettign anywhere I guess its because my exile was usually grey, she followed Kreias path before the incident at the Trayus core... Wat Evs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Darth Traya is a controversial topic. She was never really dark, she was grey... She wasn't gray. You can Force sight her and she's blood red. She was totally consumed by the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Incorrect, she disapproves of mindless slaughter, just like any Sith with a brain would do, mindless slaughter is not the Sith way, it is a sign of an animal, a brute. she instead suggested that the player use anyone and everyone to his/her advantage till useless and then cast them aside. Exactly at the endgame dungeon if the exile is dark side she wants the exile to murder their companions so the exile can become stronger in the dark side. I played my DS exile as someone who follows the advice of kriea she killed people only if it pushed her companions to the dark side and by the end of the game I had dark side mastery and I was a sith lord. Edited March 28, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just because your a force user who isnt a Jedi doesnt mean your Darkside, think of the Voss... or Revan, or Bastilla Shan, they werent Jedi, after Malaks death, but they were not darkside... They were Honorary Jedi so they didnt spread a message of lvoe, but that aint DS... Never suggested such, what I stated is that she was exactly opposite, completely and utterly selfish, she cared for nothing but herself and then cared nothing about anyone, even the Exile whom she claimed to love, she would have killed without a second thought if it would have meant the death of the force, JUST SO SHE COULD PROVE THAT SHE WAS RIGHT. She was an insane dark sider with delusions of being above it all. Only reason Surik turned out as she did is because she did NOT listen to her, all the others she trained turned to the Dark Side and became a Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) She wasn't gray. You can Force sight her and she's blood red. She was totally consumed by the Dark Side. Yup I think people need to play kotor 2 and pay more attention to her conversations because if you follow her advice or agree with her you are going to have a lot of dark side points coming your way. Heck I will even link the video she has with the exile if she is dark side all she pretty much says is be careful and don't kill people randomly just because you can. She chews you out even more if you are light side. I hold the opinion that kriea is just hiding her alignment she is actually dark side. Edited March 28, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 The problem is almost all of the information we have on Darth Vectivus came from Lumiya, a Sith, who was trying to turn Jacen Solo to the Dark Side. The entire story was constructed to convince him that you could use the Dark Side and not be corrupted by it. Due to the source, and the eventual outcome of the use of that story, we have no reason to believe anything Lumiya had to say. Don't forget Nelani Dinn who actually talked with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgon Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Read the wise words of walsh as a sith and dark side lore fanatic I twist in my bed whenever someone says kriea is sane or that there has been sith that prevented the dark side from twisting/control them. Same here. I love the dark side, Sith, and villains in general, but don't try to twist them into the "ambiguous moral character who is misunderstood." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 She wasn't gray. You can Force sight her and she's blood red. She was totally consumed by the Dark Side. Force sigh ability? I dont remember that one XD If you mean as visas, it may jsut be because visas knew her past, and had pre conceptions, anyway, im done with this topic XD You have all convinced me to replay kotor, and see if my old thoughts were true and that she was grey..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokdron Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) The problem is almost all of the information we have on Darth Vectivus came from Lumiya, a Sith, who was trying to turn Jacen Solo to the Dark Side. The entire story was constructed to convince him that you could use the Dark Side and not be corrupted by it. Due to the source, and the eventual outcome of the use of that story, we have no reason to believe anything Lumiya had to say. I agree secrecy and lies are the true weapons of the sith at the end of the day imo. The SI in swtor even says this. Edited March 28, 2012 by lokdron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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