Anthiel Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You people have no clue, "hybrid" needs a nerf, infiltration needs a big buff. Don't post if you don't know what you are talking about, fools. lol you have no clue the hybrid spec was already nerfed its tank spec with dps gear thats pissing people off in pvp right now but hey being a *********** idiot and posting is betting than being a fool and posting in your book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've been running darkness tank since the start. The only time it should be considered OP is when a Hybrid spec was viable. They changed the Dark/Dec Hybrid and even the Dark/Mad. The problem could be Darkness running with DPS gear, but it still is not even that great. I run with survivor gear(almost full BM), and I rarely can hit 2.5k crits. Our only good damage is when we pop recklessness and FL. Any CC can interrupt that ability which screws us over. We do not do enough dps to kill GOOD healers, and its not like we can kill other classes fast. Our job as a tank is fine, regardless one of our main tank abilities is near useless in PVP. The healing makes up for our waste of an ability. The most healing I got was 75K other than that I get like 50K. If I am fighting in a group the most damage I can get is rarely 250K. Asssassins already had their nerf, you just have to know how to kill them I hear you, but what others are gonna see is you not running in DPS gear you are "doing it wrong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Sorry I type with "B" and "u", I forgot I was suppose to be writing a paper for you. Half the Classes have a 12 second interrupt. Scoundrel, Gunslinger, Sage, and Shadows all have a 12 second interrupt. I don't think the interrupt for shadow should be lower. I don't think it should be lower either, but you were trying to argue that shadows have the best of everything and now you're proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 lol you have no clue the hybrid spec was already nerfed its tank spec with dps gear thats pissing people off in pvp right now but hey being a *********** idiot and posting is betting than being a fool and posting in your book. 1 nerf to switching charges is the only nerf they got. I still can't see how 700k damage as a tank spec shouldn't get nerfed. W/e Buffed/nerfed/untouched... Either way the 95% of the shadows I see won't be a threat and the Shadows that were always a threat will still be a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 dark charge giving a 50% damage penalty - the removal of force shroud (you still have deflection) or removal of disjunction - nerf to energize I'm so glad you'll never be a game developer LOL 50% damage penalty? their damage isn't much higher than vanguard tanks and jugg tanks, they just aoe a lot so the numbers are skewed. The entire point for force shroud is to help with clean re-stealths and giving us some more defense against tech/force damage. Removing this would be incredibly stupid. Disjunction and Energize is completely fine. Maybe you should stop complaining and get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I'm so glad you'll never be a game developer LOL 50% damage penalty? their damage isn't much higher than vanguard tanks and jugg tanks, they just aoe a lot so the numbers are skewed. The entire point for force shroud is to help with clean re-stealths and giving us some more defense against tech/force damage. Removing this would be incredibly stupid. Disjunction and Energize is completely fine. Maybe you should stop complaining and get better. If removing force shroud would be incredibly stupid, why don't operatives have it. Look, I never complained about any class in the game. But since Bioware only nerfs based on forum QQ and all eyes are on my class for the next nerf cycle, I'm going to support heavy-handed nerfs to assassins because otherwise they will be too strong compared to the other stealth class, operatives. Here are my suggestions to bring assassins in line with 1.2 operatives: - Dark charge gives a 30-50% damage penalty and increases threat by 100% - Wither snare effect reduced to 6 seconds - Deflection removed entirely to bring shadow/assassin defensive cooldowns in line with operatives - Force speed shares a cooldown with force pull Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyndeta Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I don't think it should be lower either, but you were trying to argue that shadows have the best of everything and now you're proven wrong. I am sorry. Yea I wasn't trying to say shadows have the best of everything. They certainly have some tools though. I just think shadows tank tree should be nerfed DPS wise and Buff the other 2 trees with more survivability. The tank tree has always been a bit too strong and now players finally followed the trend from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 1 nerf to switching charges is the only nerf they got. I still can't see how 700k damage as a tank spec shouldn't get nerfed. W/e Buffed/nerfed/untouched... Either way the 95% of the shadows I see won't be a threat and the Shadows that were always a threat will still be a threat. It must be me or my server but I have never seen a tank spec reach over 700k, not saying that it cannot happen but I am yet to see it but if it were it would have to be on voidstar in a game where both teams cannot get passed the first door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 This thread is just another QQ post from a "l2p" bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Everyone is going to make one with Legacy, because of how OP the class is.... Then they'll have to turn around and nerf them in 1.3 Warzones will be over 50% Shadows/Assassins. Masses of SWTOR Nerds will rage because they leveled a Shadow and then it gets nerfed. I would be vastly better to bring their nerfs now, with all the other class changes. You sir have NO idea what you are talking about. Is KC VERY EASY to play.......................YES Does it need any ability/dam nerf................NO Skilled players that know what they are doing do fine against my shadow. Do I wish the skill cap to play this class was higher..........YES (X Rogue) Do I wish they would make Infil spec better..................YES (X Rogue) Shadow KC > DPS Shadow KC = other tank specs Shadow KC < Heals Do you see a pattern? Tanks > DPS, Tanks < Heals in 1 v 1. Skilled players KNOW that a game can NEVER be balanced in 1 v 1. Damn did I pick the wrong class, A nutless monkey could FACEROLL Shadow KC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Look, I never complained about any class in the game. But since Bioware only nerfs based on forum QQ and all eyes are on my class for the next nerf cycle, I'm going to support heavy-handed nerfs to assassins because otherwise they will be too strong compared to the other stealth class, operatives. Here are my suggestions to bring assassins in line with 1.2 operatives: - Dark charge gives a 30-50% damage penalty and increases threat by 100% - Wither effect reduced to 6 seconds - Force shroud removed entirely to bring shadow/assassin defensive cooldowns in line with operatives - Force speed shares a cooldown with force pull I play both marauder and sin at 50. Marauder is actually stronger than tank sin. Assassin gets the edge on utility, marauder gets the edge on damage. They both have about the same average suvivability (marauders have more with cds up, sins have more with cds down). The only map I'd rather play my sin over my mara is huttball. It would be silly to nerf one and leave the other one untouched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If removing force shroud would be incredibly stupid, why don't operatives have it. Healing classes don't have tank cooldowns, other news at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If removing force shroud would be incredibly stupid, why don't operatives have it. Look, I never complained about any class in the game. But since Bioware only nerfs based on forum QQ and all eyes are on my class for the next nerf cycle, I'm going to support heavy-handed nerfs to assassins because otherwise they will be too strong compared to the other stealth class, operatives. Here are my suggestions to bring assassins in line with 1.2 operatives: - Dark charge gives a 30-50% damage penalty and increases threat by 100% - Wither snare effect reduced to 6 seconds - Force shroud removed entirely to bring shadow/assassin defensive cooldowns in line with operatives - Force speed shares a cooldown with force pull Operatives should have a force shroud, it's mandatory for any stealth class where dots break stealth. It's going to really gimp the class in rated warzones where people just dot up the operative and make it so he can't get another vanish opener. You can't just simply smash a 50% damage penalty on dark charge because that would destroy the spec, not only would they do abyssmally lower damage than other tanks, but they don't even do much more damage. The reason they do so much damage on a scoreboard is because they aoe which obviously inflates numbers greatly. Force speed sharing a cd with force pull is another stupid decision. There is nothing overpowered about those two abilities. Operatives are already gimp and going to be moreso next patch, I'm actually surprised they don't have a force shroud ability, I've never seen a stealth class that heavily relies on stealth openers not have one. They can reduce tank shadow/sin damage a little but certainly not 50% that's just silly, 5-10% would be more ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 If removing force shroud would be incredibly stupid, why don't operatives have it. Look, I never complained about any class in the game. But since Bioware only nerfs based on forum QQ and all eyes are on my class for the next nerf cycle, I'm going to support heavy-handed nerfs to assassins because otherwise they will be too strong compared to the other stealth class, operatives. Here are my suggestions to bring assassins in line with 1.2 operatives: - Dark charge gives a 30-50% damage penalty and increases threat by 100% - Wither snare effect reduced to 6 seconds - Force shroud removed entirely to bring shadow/assassin defensive cooldowns in line with operatives - Force speed shares a cooldown with force pull I just cannot see an argument for this. Force shroud is one of our two "real" defensive cool downs, why should a non tanking class have this ability. Dark ward is not a defensive ability that gives us any benefits in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Healing classes don't have tank cooldowns, other news at 11. DPS operatives are not healers the same way deception assassins are not tanks. Other news at 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) I just cannot see an argument for this. Force shroud is one of our two "real" defensive cool downs, why should a non tanking class have this ability. Dark ward is not a defensive ability that gives us any benefits in PvP. You still have deflection, which is what operatives get. And operatives have no gap closer, assassins have 2 with force speed and force pull, so a shared cooldown between those 2 is the minimum to be expected. Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Operatives should have a force shroud, it's mandatory for any stealth class where dots break stealth. It's going to really gimp the class in rated warzones where people just dot up the operative and make it so he can't get another vanish opener. Are you serious? Please stop talking about things you have no clue about. Dodge/Evasion REMOVES ALL NEGATIVE EFFECTS FROM OPERATIVES/SCOUNDRELS. It even has the exact same cooldown as Force Shroud does FFS. Edited March 28, 2012 by AetherMcLoud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 DPS operatives are not healers the same way deception assassins are not tanks. Other news at 11. They have force shroud. Theirs is called evasion. Removes all negative and makes them immune to white damage for 3 seconds. Only difference is one works against yellow damage, one works against white damage. Which one is more effective depends on the class you're fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Is KC VERY EASY to play.......................YES Does it need any ability/dam nerf................NO Skilled players that know what they are doing do fine against my shadow. Do I wish the skill cap to play this class was higher..........YES (X Rogue) Do I wish they would make Infil spec better..................YES (X Rogue) Shadow KC > DPS Shadow KC = other tank specs Shadow KC < Heals Do you see a pattern? Tanks > DPS, Tanks < Heals in 1 v 1. Skilled players KNOW that a game can NEVER be balanced in 1 v 1. Damn did I pick the wrong class, A nutless monkey could FACEROLL Shadow KC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) They have force shroud. Theirs is called evasion. Removes all negative and makes them immune to white damage for 3 seconds. Only difference is one works against yellow damage, one works against white damage. Which one is more effective depends on the class you're fighting. I don't play the classes so I got those backwards. I meant remove deflection, edited in original post. Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Ahh I don't play the classes so I got those backwards. I meant remove deflection, edited in original post. Please stop trolling. Remove the only good tanking cooldown a tank class has? Yeah right. Stop your gorram trolling, it just shows that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about class balancing and MMOs in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 You still have deflection, which is what operatives get. And operatives have no gap closer, assassins have 2 with force speed and force pull, so a shared cooldown between those 2 is the minimum to be expected. Deflection is 50%, on a 2 minute cooldown. Does not remove negative effect. Evasion is is 100% (makes you immune to white damage), on a 1 minute cooldown. Removes negative effects. I'd take Evasion over Deflection any day of the week, heck, I'd even take Shield Probe over Deflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Please stop trolling. Remove the only good tanking cooldown a tank class has? Yeah right. Stop your gorram trolling, it just shows that you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about class balancing and MMOs in general. Explain to me why operatives don't have a gap closer and assassins have 2. Explain why assassins have 2 defensive cooldowns, where operatives have 1. Why does assassin CC give less resolve than operative CC? Not to mention the utility of guard/taunts/speed/pull/etc. There is a reason assassins are the kings of 1v1 and the best tanks for rated warzones given the 1.2 changes. They have it all, and they have it easy. It needs a nerf. Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 only a tank sin/shadow has to be looked at, whereas infiltration has to be looked at and buffed This is true. Infiltration Shadows are the least op build of shadow there is. Tanks, I wouldn't know I don't play that tree. Infiltration needs some kind of buff, not a nerf, anyway, If they do actually nerf the shadow, and make my Infiltrator even less viable to play than it already is in PVP, I will just have to stop playing Shadow altogether. I don't have much survivability as it is, and with the worst dps in the game, as far as I have seen from this branch of shadow, we won't be able to bring anything to PVP at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Explain to me why operatives don't have a gap closer and assassins have 2. Explain why assassins have 2 defensive cooldowns, where operatives have 1. Why does assassin CC give less resolve than operative CC? Not to mention the utility of guard/taunts/speed/pull/etc. Operatives get two defensive cooldowns. Evasion on a 1 minute cooldown, Shield Probe on a 45 seconds cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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