Trooper Commando is the worst pvp character ever...

[Ssfbistimg]

1) We are not all Grav Round/Tracer Missile spammers.

2) We are not all healers.

3) If you think 1.2 will stop the Grav Round/Tracer Missile spam, you are wrong.

4) We all suck in 1on1, and if your counter argument is "game is not balanced to 1on1", please consider that if you need 2 Commandos to kill 1 anything else, you need 3-4 to kill 2, and 3-5 to kill 3 anything else, and that is hardly balance either.

5) If you are not a Commando/Merc, why would you whine about Grav Round/Tracer Missile, you can Line of Sight it, and you can interrupt it.

6) Interrupts with a long cooldown is better than none, you can use your knockbacks and stun to stop the commando/merc from casting,

7) 450k damage in a wz is the most I have done, I have 3000 healing, and 8-9 medals, a good assassin has 10+ medals, 650k+ damage, 200k protection, and 100k healing, nearly 20k health, and in tank "stance" and WE are getting nerfs because tracer missile is "annoying" - REALLY ?

8) Powertech/Vanguard in Pyro spec, does more damage and is harder to kill, and people are still crying about mercs.

9) Trying to Heal if you are not specced for it, is terrible, and it is NOT advisable to start casting a heal on yourself if your Grav Round/Tracer Missile has been interrupted, it will have 0% pushback resistance and heal you for LESS than the damage you took while casting it.

10) Heat management is a pain, and something glowstick classes wont have to deal with.

 

Regards.

Merc - Valor Rank 69

 

again stop saying we suck in 1 vs 1, this is a bunch of BS. I win many of 1 vs 1, I've won quite a few 1 vs 2, and I even won a 1 vs 3.

I have topped 600K 3 times and been over 500K quite a few times.

[EhLiar]

commando healers with a tank are basically unkillable unless you dogpile them

 

that seems pretty not awful to me

 

to the sniper from before:

 

we can also use leg shot/dotshot/armorshot/quickdraw(i don't know what your execute is named :V) out of cover. those are situationally decent, but yeah, we're not that much more mobile than commandoes. we can also move during the gcd of the instant snipe/charged burst, although that's also of limited usefulness.

[Digtahk]

One of the things people dont seem to understand in this game is that total damage is a terrible number to look at. If an arsenal merc has done 300-400k damage in a wz they will have fcked some **** up and sent a lot of people to the respawn area. Same with marauders who do 300K in Annihilation spec. Where as a sorcerer can do 600-700K and not really have contributed much other than helping the opposition healers get medals.

 

Arsenal Merc damage is hard to heal through 1 stun for someone else during a barrage and the healer will die. They are one of the few specs if left to their own devices who can switch target and without any set up dish out big numbers in 6 second bursts. When you do 400K with an Ars merc you know you have laid waste to some people because they have been going splat left right and centre. I have done 600K in pyro spec on a number of occasions in some purile no door voidstar and left the game feeling the merc was a bit impotent.

[Ssfbistimg]

One of the things people dont seem to understand in this game is that total damage is a terrible number to look at. If an arsenal merc has done 300-400k damage in a wz they will have fcked some **** up and sent a lot of people to the respawn area. Same with marauders who do 300K in Annihilation spec. Where as a sorcerer can do 600-700K and not really have contributed much other than helping the opposition healers get medals.

 

Arsenal Merc damage is hard to heal through 1 stun for someone else during a barrage and the healer will die. They are one of the few specs if left to their own devices who can switch target and without any set up dish out big numbers in 6 second bursts. When you do 400K with an Ars merc you know you have laid waste to some people because they have been going splat left right and centre. I have done 600K in pyro spec on a number of occasions in some purile no door voidstar and left the game feeling the merc was a bit impotent.

 

I agree with your first part 100%, but I have a sage alt and when I top 500K damage with her you best believe people went to respawn area. Granted I Don't Kill many of them by myself like I do with my Gunnery Commando, but they still die none the less.

[Digtahk]

Thats my point I have healed in games where i looked at the scoreboard afterwards and the opposition sage did 800K damage and to be honest I didn't even remember them being there where as if a Sentinel does 300K in a game I healed I will be able to tell you exactly what race they were. As a healer if a sage attacks me I dont have to worry about moving trying to los any of these things I just keep spamming heals. I usually blow them a kiss or two in between to dishearten them further.

[Mightywombat]

again stop saying we suck in 1 vs 1, this is a bunch of BS. I win many of 1 vs 1, I've won quite a few 1 vs 2, and I even won a 1 vs 3.

I have topped 600K 3 times and been over 500K quite a few times.

 

see...its all down to L2P...always said theyr OP!

[Foenixz]

LOL how many of you actually read the OP and his replies. He is a marauder and he hates facing Commandos.

[Mightywombat]

who wouldnt fear a trooper...them being in a group means your screwd if they get within range.

[DaedalusV]

TBH I have seen people running 3 trooper +1 vanguard tank premades on my server.

That premade wins games no matter what the opposition does (well almost)

 

3 turrets spamming on 1 target, switching in a synchronized way (one trooper with enough heal spec to make them stay in there, while the vanguard taunts everything trying to get to the turrets)

 

The amount of burst and AoE those 3 troopers can lay down is not easy to counter. Not unless you have 8 people trying their hardest at all times, with just as good communication and target switching...

 

Commandos are from my point of view fine, BW wants to nerf them (like sage gets a nerf, even though IMO all they needed was buffing the 31 talent trees and fix the doubleproc bug on deliverance) I'm looking forward to 1.2 cuz as long as it isn't live and truly playtested, everything is just speculation and people thinking the sky is falling.

[originaltodzilla]

TBH I have seen people running 3 trooper +1 vanguard tank premades on my server.

That premade wins games no matter what the opposition does (well almost)

 

3 turrets spamming on 1 target, switching in a synchronized way (one trooper with enough heal spec to make them stay in there, while the vanguard taunts everything trying to get to the turrets)

 

The amount of burst and AoE those 3 troopers can lay down is not easy to counter. Not unless you have 8 people trying their hardest at all times, with just as good communication and target switching...

I'm assuming when you say trooper you mean commando. I've never seen troopers (both vanguards and commandos) work that well. Again though, I'm the only commando in my guild of 35 people. However even in random WZs I don't see troopers working that well together. I'm not doubting it, it could just be superior communication. I know I've seen the flipside, where 2 commandos and a vangaurd couldn't down a healer and a marauder. Granted it was an awesome healer, but in theory any combination of classes that are working well together can out do a less organized group of any other classes.

 

Commandos are from my point of view fine, BW wants to nerf them (like sage gets a nerf, even though IMO all they needed was buffing the 31 talent trees and fix the doubleproc bug on deliverance) I'm looking forward to 1.2 cuz as long as it isn't live and truly playtested, everything is just speculation and people thinking the sky is falling.

I totally agree with this ^. Commandos are fine. I also agree that we really need to wait to play 1.2 before making rash decisions even though on paper it doesn't look good. TO honest I'm more up about the mortar volley radious reduction than I am at the GR nerf.

[olcraft]

As a fellow gunnery commando, I advise u to avoid melee as much as u can. I understand that it is annoying to get ur grav round disrupted. Beware of pyro powertech and sith assassins especially. I usually run and hide whenever i see them rofl

[Dzhokhar]

Our Instant attacks between cover are: Corrosive Dart (Dot), Followthrough (only usable within 4.5 sec or Ambush or Snipe which are both Cover only abilities, Overload shot ..LOL and Grenade (AoE Tech attack)). none of those, excluding Followthrough, are not worth the resources to use them on any single target as several are our absolute lowest DPE (Damage Per Energy). (From a Marksman spec point of view, Lethality isn't much different and i do not believe Engineering is either, but i have not dealt with Engineering so feel free to correct me where appropriate, or if i miss something.)

 

Commando Offensive Instants (Excluding Talents):

1) Hammer Shot - Equivalent to Rifle Shot

2) Explosive Round - Comparable in efficiency to Overload Shot

3) Stockstrike - Equivalent to Shiv

4) High Impact Bolt - Highly Situational, less efficient than Takedown

5) Cryo Grenade - #1 of 1 ability that immobilizes enemy (making movement less necessary)

6) Blitz - Unusable in PvP

7) Concussion Charge - Not significantly dissimilar from Cover Pulse

 

Sniper Offensive Instants (non-cover, and non-talents):

1) Rifle Shot - Equivalent to Hammer Shot

2) Shiv - Equivalent to Stockstrike

3) Fragmentation Grenade - Excellent AoE, very effective in Huttball and Voidstar

4) Debilitate - #1 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

5) Corrosive Dart - No Commando Equivalent

6) Flash Bang - #2 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

7) Overload Shot - Comparable in efficiency to Explosive Round

8) Distraction - No Commando Equivalent

9) Eviscerate - Unusable in PvP

10) Headshot - Unusable in PvP

11) Legshot - #3 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

12) Takedown - Highly Situational, more efficient than High Impact Bolt

13) Shatter Shot - No Commando Equivalent

 

Note that the above list include all of the Commando's (offensive) instant abilities while it excludes several of the Sniper's because they require cover (although you can still move during the GCD for those abilities). When you factor in Talents, the Sniper's Engineering and Lethality trees both improve mobility significantly beyond these base levels (including a movement speed buff in the Lethality tree and several instant abilities and buffs to existing instant abilities), while only the Commando's Assault Specialist tree adds any meaningful mobility (in the form of instant abilities).

 

Having played both classes, there's no comparison in their mobility. The Sniper is more mobile, hands down (and the Sniper needs mobility less because of its 35m range).

Edited March 27, 2012 by Dzhokhar

[looneybinjim]

I am paying myself ; what about you mate ,who is paying to play your swtor? lol realy

 

erm i think his point is, the definition of being pro (professional) is getting paid for what you do.

[ExpectWar]

take advantage of your class people! stay behind your team or stand on the highest level of huttball and turret their team down!

[Manski]

i consider myself the best gunnery commando on my server, or equal to the best. I play my character very dynamically (rarely grav spamming) as it only takes 1 grav round to then create a nice burst cycle. I would agree its impossible to kite a sentinel / marauder or other melee for the most part they will all eat you 1v1. Commandos are terrrriblee at 1v1 its just the design of our class. However when i get lost in the fray and move with teamates (which you should ultimately be doing in group pvp!) my damage output cant be matched by many. In these types of games im rarely not the top on the chart. Since there is no rated 1v1 bracket i think our class overall is acceptable. The 1.2 patch slightly nerfs our defense by reducing our shield proc off grav round from 10% to 5% (if you cast 5 grav rounds in a row you deserve to suck anyway) but it increases the damage output of Demo by 10% which is your hardest hitting instant cast skill. Not to mention they are making our first aid much more useful by helping the ammo management on it. Curing bleeds and techs while pillaring is pretty useful for defending a base / etc. One more ranged interupt would be nice though, one that prevents that school from being recasted for 4 seconds similar to every other classes interupt. Often when i interupt a commando / BH healer with a knock back / cryo they just instant recast and its hard to put any pressure on them

[TheRealCandyMan]

Commando Offensive Instants (Excluding Talents):

1) Hammer Shot - Equivalent to Rifle Shot

2) Explosive Round - Comparable in efficiency to Overload Shot

3) Stockstrike - Equivalent to Shiv

4) High Impact Bolt - Highly Situational, less efficient than Takedown

5) Cryo Grenade - #1 of 1 ability that immobilizes enemy (making movement less necessary)

6) Blitz - Unusable in PvP

7) Concussion Charge - Not significantly dissimilar from Cover Pulse

 

Sniper Offensive Instants (non-cover, and non-talents):

1) Rifle Shot - Equivalent to Hammer Shot

2) Shiv - Equivalent to Stockstrike

3) Fragmentation Grenade - Excellent AoE, very effective in Huttball and Voidstar

4) Debilitate - #1 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

5) Corrosive Dart - No Commando Equivalent

6) Flash Bang - #2 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

7) Overload Shot - Comparable in efficiency to Explosive Round

8) Distraction - No Commando Equivalent

9) Eviscerate - Unusable in PvP

10) Headshot - Unusable in PvP

11) Legshot - #3 of 3 abilities that immobilize enemy (making movement less necessary)

12) Takedown - Highly Situational, more efficient than High Impact Bolt

13) Shatter Shot - No Commando Equivalent

 

Note that the above list include all of the Commando's (offensive) instant abilities while it excludes several of the Sniper's because they require cover (although you can still move during the GCD for those abilities). When you factor in Talents, the Sniper's Engineering and Lethality trees both improve mobility significantly beyond these base levels (including a movement speed buff in the Lethality tree and several instant abilities and buffs to existing instant abilities), while only the Commando's Assault Specialist tree adds any meaningful mobility (in the form of instant abilities).

 

Having played both classes, there's no comparison in their mobility. The Sniper is more mobile, hands down (and the Sniper needs mobility less because of its 35m range).

LOL @ frag grenade being useful, it is a tickle attack if you are a MM sniper. Even if you spec into it, it isn't that useful.

Edited March 27, 2012 by TheRealCandyMan

[Dzhokhar]

LOL @ frag grenade being useful, it is a tickle attack if you are a MM sniper. Even if you spec into it, it isn't that useful.

 

Sure, it's not useful as single-target DPS, but that's not what it's for. In a large, moving melee, its total damage output is significant. It's an excellent inclusion in your rotation when there's a big crowd of people surrounding the ball carrier in Huttball or when everybody is running through the tunnels in Voidstar after a door is opened. Commandos definitely don't have anything even remotely equivalent (the closest is Explosive Round, which has a tiny AoE component).

 

My point wasn't so much about how great Snipers are though (they're not really) or even that they're particularly mobile in the grand scheme of things (they definitely aren't). My point was simply that they're significantly more mobile than Commandos (which are easily the least mobile class in the game).

[Evil_Santa]

On my server i consistantly see groups of 3 - 4 commandos as premades, and when they focus fire grav-rounds it's 3 seconds and you're dead. When you try to kill one, they cross-heal and are immortal.

[Dzhokhar]

On my server i consistantly see groups of 3 - 4 commandos as premades, and when they focus fire grav-rounds it's 3 seconds and you're dead. When you try to kill one, they cross-heal and are immortal.

 

I don't know what BW was thinking when they determined how stacking works, but it's totally broken. 3 Commandos dropping Grav Rounds can stack the armor debuff 15 times because the game counts the stacks independently for each source instead of limiting it to 5 stacks per target. In my opinion, fixing stacking would be the ideal first step to fixing that particular problem. That said, it doesn't take anything special for 3-4 players to focus down one pretty quickly.

[Niconogood]

Have any of you people heard of "kiting?"

I bet when you played WoW you quoted your mage DPS on Patchwerk, didn't you!

 

Kiting my friend, implies that you have the target slowed and therefore by running faster than it is able to hit it with ranged and at the same time not being hit by its melee.

 

Since commandos have no real slow abilities, and Marauders have (+instant gapcloser on faster CD than knockback), kiting is simply not a viable option in this game, except maybe for sorc.

[Scerge]

All you have to do is hide somewhere and spam grav round.

 

What's so hard about that?

[Dzhokhar]

Kiting my friend, implies that you have the target slowed and therefore by running faster than it is able to hit it with ranged and at the same time not being hit by its melee.

 

Since commandos have no real slow abilities, and Marauders have (+instant gapcloser on faster CD than knockback), kiting is simply not a viable option in this game, except maybe for sorc.

 

Oddly enough, a Sniper could probably kite a Commando. The Sniper has a 5m range advantage, more instant abilities, and more slows/stuns/roots, while the Commando doesn't have any gap closers or speed buffs and is reliant on abilities that can't be cast on the run. It would be an odd fight and really couldn't happen in a Warzone because of the incredible amount of space required, but might be possible in an otherwise deserted open-world zone.

 

In general, most melee classes have too many gap closers (or stealth plus powerful openers and some ranged abilities, in the case of Scoundrels) to be kited by anyone.

[Ivonichke]

I play a commando. I've got experience as both assault (most) and gunnery (not as much, but enough to be relevant to the discussion).

 

Assault suits my play style more. It may not be as flashy or put up the big hits as often/consistently as gunnery can, but being more mobile and flexible is a nice gain. I won't lie, I took perverse pleasure seeing 4-5 people on an objective and lobbing dots on every person before I died solely for the sake of buying time 'til the rez wave. I miss that. It's still a fun spec to play for its own reasons.

 

Gunnery is fun. Doesn't necessarily suit my play style since I hate being locked into one spot to fully maximize my output, but it's enjoyable enough. I'm not the stereotypical grav round spammer - at most I'll use 3 in a row on a target for the full 5 stack debuff, but I make use of FA, HIB, and demo round. My biggest (self admitted) weakness is swapping to CB when grav round gets interrupted, but I usually have a demo/FA/HIB available to bide my time 'til I can finish the debuffs.

 

Both specs can push out some numbers and make life difficult if left alone. I don't think that's commando/merc exclusive, though. I enjoy playing a commando and don't think it's terribly far behind, but I think there are a few balance issues that could be done better.

 

 

My two biggest gripes/complaints about the commando revolve more around utility/survivability.

 

Every class in this game has CC; some get aoe, some get multiple CCs, but I don't think there's a single class without CC. On the same token, every class in this game should have an interrupt. Not a cryo grenade stun to interrupt, not a knockback to interrupt - a true "Push this button to interrupt that cast/channel" button. Commandos are lacking that and they need one (along with any other class that doesn't have one - I don't know if there's another AC lacking). Allow it to work similar to the sorc/sage interrupt for commandos - off the GCD, not usable midcast, but interrupts the FA channel.

 

The other area commandos could use help (legitimate help imo) is an escape tool. Nothing too fancy, not a guaranteed escape, but give commandos baseline tools to help. We already have an aoe knockback, so do something with it - slightly increase the range (it's weak), toss a baseline root on it and slightly increase the duration (no talent points required)... do something. Don't tweak it so drastic that we never have to fear another person approaching us in melee, but give us slightly better odds at escaping.

 

If BioWare would do something about those two things, I wouldn't have any issue at all with how commandos played - even with a damage reduction.

[Turn-XGundam]

lol vanguard assault is better then commando assault.

[SvnStrSlm]

GOD the OP couldnt be anymore wrong. What a yo yo this guys is. The worst class ever in PVP was the Rogue in EQ 1. I would get kited by any caster and its so unfair bards rangers and warriors can wear plate so early. I meen yeah i can pick up the kunark gear but i lose to many stats for insta cast buffs.