Jugger....NOT.

[DarthKyorl]

My biggest problem with my immortal Jugg is I just don't do enough damage, I can barely beat two silvers at once, and usually barely win fights with gold opponents, I usually die 30% of the time. Although with my DPS Jedi, I kill silvers and golds so much quicker and usually end up with 60-70% health left after those fights. I am newb though, so I am probably doing something wrong.

[lordofdamornin]

I really think the warrior has always been the red headed step child of all mmo's. For some reason game designers add them for an extra character slot or something and no more. I have yet to see a warrior that actually lives up to it's name. Dps warriors seem to do fairly well as far as dmg goes, however the juggernaut has always seem to be lacking. When I hit 50 the first time and got all the best upgrades that didnt require pvp or FP's, I still didnt feel like a tank, I die too easily because a tank hinges way too much on having a healer. Ive seen assassins with the same gear and have higher health, so im guessing that having a warrior tank is just like all the rest of the games out there.

 

You have it backwards - the *warrior* class is typically (one of) the first ones done, and at the very least, all other melee classes are balanced around it. Perhaps the ranged ones as well.

 

This was true in WoW, probably in EQ/DAoC as well. There are two main drawbacks to this type of class;

 

1) It's usually the most gear-dependent class in the game, in terms of performance.

 

2) It usually has a higher skill cap to reach its full potential compared to the other classes.

 

This presents an interesting problem for the developers; do they balance this class' capabilities based on the masses, or on the highly skilled? While there is always a choice, they almost always choose (correctly, imo) to balance based on what a highly skilled, geared player can do.

 

The downside, is that the class can feel very lackluster to those who either don't have the skill, or choose not to develop it.

 

Once you see first-hand what a Juggernaut that is both geared, and skilled, can do, I don't think you will continue to find this class to be *lacking.*

 

I tell you true - I am very good at things PvE as Immortal, but I didn't really start to learn what my class was truly capable of until I started doing a lot of PvP.

 

Riôt

[Vember]

My biggest problem with my immortal Jugg is I just don't do enough damage, I can barely beat two silvers at once, and usually barely win fights with gold opponents, I usually die 30% of the time. Although with my DPS Jedi, I kill silvers and golds so much quicker and usually end up with 60-70% health left after those fights. I am newb though, so I am probably doing something wrong.

 

Try them with a marauder...you'll come out at 100% health. Its not even funny how much greater survivability marauders have over juggs.

[AidenPryde]

If you've been playing 50 WZs for the last 3 months daily like you said, I'm willing to bet you're at least partially BM geared. If you're in that kind of gear any dps spec in the game should be able to break 300 consistently. However if you take your hands and put them behind a keyboard with a rage spec your 300 games would be 450s and your personal best would have touched at least 500 . Seriously, I'm getting 200k+ games on my 24 sentinel, 300k is on the lower end for someone with gear like yours. Again, thats not your fault, but the class'.

 

 

Honestly, give rage a try for a week and see what your numbers are (and if you still feel like veng doesn't need some help).

 

 

 

Honestly vengeance needs SOMETHING, even making shatter independent of sunder so target swapping (See getting kited with nothing you can do about it) isn't punished as hard.

 

 

 

P.S BW making you use consumables to allow endure pain work like it should is stupid. Buff. Vengeance.

 

I was Rage spec'ed for a month and saw 500k damage pre BM gear, so I know what it can do. I just go tired of being CCed right after a Charge.

 

Personally I think that:

 

1. Shatter should not cost 5 rage.

2. Shatter should do more instant damage (if they don't make Shatter cost 4 Rage then it should hit for 3-3.5k on a crit + the 1k bleed - where it currently hits for 2k on a crit).

3. Shatter's bleed effect should apply all of it's damage over 6 seconds, not 12 (12 seconds is an eternity in PvP).

4. We need a talent that roots the target for the duration of Ravage. It's BS that Marauders get one.

 

The other talents in the tree are fine.

 

But I got my Marauder to level 17 yesterday, and I was just looking at Torhead and some of the skills they have and while some abilities (like Deadly throw which debuffs the enemy so that they receive 20% less healing - utterly amazing in PvP) are amazing they don't seem to have the same utility.

 

They can't force push, or spec into becoming immune to CCs after jumping. But to counter that they get several abilities that slow movement speed.

 

I dunno, I just prefer all the defensive cooldowns and passives that Vengeance offers.

 

This Hybrid spec might be useful in PvP if Shatter still does less burst damage than Obliterate:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZI0rorudzRZurM0z.1

 

Look at the 1.2 patch notes and you'll see that this build might make the new defense talent useful.

 

I didn't spend much time making the above build, but you should get the idea.

 

I won't know until I actually get to see the 1.2 talent builder.

Edited March 28, 2012 by AidenPryde