SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[RabidPopcorn]

core features, not core of the game. But you get my point none the less. alot of these so called standardized features arnt features at all, they were developed by 3rd part add on creaters in the most part and it seems only a few mmos actualy create there own systems along these lines of which bioware is one of them and doing it themselves.

 

With bioware doing this they are doing something even blizzard hasnt been able todo, create a game that isnt dependant on addons and 3rd partys to develope for there game. It also means that no matter what comes patch day all these so called standardized features will be upto date and the only thing you will have todo is patch your game.

 

You know I never really said I didn't like patch 1.2's new features; in fact it's a step in the right direction. If in the future SWTOR is able to absorb all the bright ideas from the marketplace and execute them with regular updates it's good for all of us.

 

Thing about Blizzard is they're allowing people the OPTION to have third-party mods, it doesn't mean they don't make their own parallels; it is just that these third-party mods have been so deeply ingrained into the game there's little incentive to redo them all over - why fix it if it isn't broken?

[QuiJonPed]

Alright..alright..

 

What would people moan about then you think?

 

They'd go back to making up stuff about how over powered Concealment Opersatives are (you know, I wuz three shotted with back stabb for 20k of damage etc.). Or they'll scream for a nerf to the Healing tree as it now out performs other healers.

 

I dunno, something Operative orientated

 

You know I never really said I didn't like patch 1.2's new features; in fact it's a step in the right direction. If in the future SWTOR is able to absorb all the bright ideas from the marketplace and execute them with regular updates it's good for all of us.

 

 

I am inclined to agree, however I'll go one step further and say considering the develpment time spent, a lot of 1.2 features should have been available at launch. A moot point though.

Edited March 28, 2012 by QuiJonPed

[Zolexus]

You know that if Blizzard employees would read this they'd laugh their asses off?

 

The mere fact that they still compete with a brand new MMO who could grab experiences off multiple other MMOs, had a giant amount of cash to start with and the newest technology both programming wise and graphic wise AND has the whole star wars thing going for them is already a big laugh at SWTOR.

 

That's like creating a new cellphone and people still tend to take their older one that they had for 10 years and used its features for a million times instead of the new one with the latest technology, and that for EXACTLY the same amount of cash.

 

Ok Bliz is losing costumers, big deal, they knew this all along why the hell do you think they're making a new MMO possibly called "Titan"? Do you think SWTOR will still be competing with Titan when it gets out? You guys make me lol. The fact WoW has been around so long is one massive achievement, an achievement that SWTOR will never reach I'll bet you all my money on that.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zolexus

[DigitalPrime]

All you need to know about WoW is that Bobby Kotick is at the helm. All this talk about Blizz did this and that. Errr no. most of it was taken from other MMOs.

 

Titan is around the corner, Blizz is dumming down WoW, adding pandas and all this sad pokemon card stuff. Not because the community wanted it. but because they know WoW as a serious MMO is coming to an end. not because of any other game. But because WoW is stale. So... they are adding a childish looking expansion to draw in the younger crowd. Dumbing down the talent system... Why.. to get in the 10 - 14 year olds. Get em young ey

 

All this talk about WoW is this and that is bull. It became the king of MMOs because yes, they got there act together, they put out great content. way before all these silly time saving systems. But alot came from other MMOs. This was the time when WoW became king. and further down the line expansion after expansion is became more and more dumbed down. mechanics turned to AOE. socializing became a one button show. It became a lobby game. YAWN! But because of this game. We now have youngsters screaming for WoW systems and features. Thats wow, Thats blizz. Let BW make there own game.

 

Gaming has become a joke with you youngsters, You see a feature or idea in one game, then shout and scream for that feature to be in another game.

 

No matter what people think. WoW is heading in a new direction, and none of you are in the mind of blizz. The youngsters are!

Edited March 28, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[DigitalPrime]

You know that if Blizzard employees would read this they'd laugh their asses off?

 

The mere fact that they still compete with a brand new MMO who could grab experiences off multiple other MMOs, had a giant amount of cash to start with and the newest technology both programming wise and graphic wise AND has the whole star wars thing going for them is already a big laugh at SWTOR.

 

That's like creating a new cellphone and people still tend to take their older one that they had for 10 years and used its features for a million times instead of the new one with the latest technology, and that for EXACTLY the same amount of cash.

 

Ok Bliz is losing costumers, big deal, they knew this all along why the hell do you think they're making a new MMO possibly called "Titan"? Do you think SWTOR will still be competing with Titan when it gets out? You guys make me lol. The fact WoW has been around so long is one massive achievement, an achievement that SWTOR will never reach I'll bet you all my money on that.

 

When you learn about market competition, You will realise that when there is no competition, winning is easy. But in todays market, with competition, Would WoW of lasted so long. Not a chance. All this hail for titan, Titan will be walking a totally different line to WoW. because of competition!

 

Bottom line WoW hit at the right time. No competition!

Edited March 28, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Zolexus]

When you learn about market competition, You will realise that when there is no competition, winning is easy. But in todays market, with competition, Would WoW of lasted so long. Not a chance. All this hail for titan, Titan will be walking a totally different line to WoW. because of competition!

 

Bottom line WoW hit at the right time. No competition!

 

Errmmm you know WoW had LOTS of competition right? Aion, FF, Age of conan, Rift, just to name a few. That is competition. They simply never made WoW worry because they simply weren't as good as WoW, still after all its years of release.

 

I can't tell how many MMOs tried to duplicate WoW's success and failed. Now SWTOR is succeeding only by a small margin (very small imho), just because WoW is running dry, getting too old and people want something new. That is the biggest reason.

 

Even when WoW was released many people played other MMOs (I did Asheron's Call), WoW stole it all away like any brand new GOOD MMO should of older many year-old MMOs.

 

EDIT: btw, following your great insights, the only reason SWTOR is semi-succesful now is because it has no competition whatsoever. If there was a new fancy MMO coming out I'd switch in a heartbeat.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zolexus

[DigitalPrime]

Errmmm you know WoW had LOTS of competition right? Aion, FF, Age of conan, Rift, just to name a few. That is competition. They simply never made WoW worry because they simply weren't as good as WoW, still after all its years of release.

 

I can't tell how many MMOs tried to duplicate WoW's success and failed. Now SWTOR is succeeding only by a small margin (very small imho), just because WoW is running dry, getting too old and people want something new. That is the biggest reason.

 

Even when WoW was released many people played other MMOs (I did Asheron's Call), WoW stole it all away like any brand new GOOD MMO should of older many year-old MMOs.

 

The titles you mentioned were way after WoW became established and got its foot in the door.

And in MMO land that means a hell of alot.

 

Look at it this way. If WoW had an engine of today technology. But got release now unklnown to everyone, with no one knowing the word WoW. Do you think it would last 10 years from now?

Edited March 28, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Zolexus]

The titles you mentioned were way after WoW became established and got its foot in the door.

And in MMO land that means a hell of alot.

 

Yep it got its foot through the door, destroyed many well-running MMOs and stuck around to make any future MMO fail.

 

What other MMO has done that? What makes WoW's situation any different from any other MMO that was released?

[DigitalPrime]

Yep it got its foot through the door, destroyed many well-running MMOs and stuck around to make any future MMO fail.

 

What other MMO has done that? What makes WoW's situation any different from any other MMO that was released?

 

LOL because the competition were mainly SOE titles. And we all know how polished they are! The market back then was completly different.

Edited March 28, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[Zolexus]

LOL because the competition were mainly SOE titles. And we all know how polished they are! The market back then was completly different.

 

So they broke through because they were innovative? Well wooptidoo, that's what every designer misses the ball on nowadays. They copy WoW to the letter (yes even to the extent of copying exact abilities and their effects) and expect it to steal all WoW's thunder.

 

It was innovative, well designed, polished and simply awesome for its time.

 

Any MMO that does this now will steal all subscribers away from anything else. Situation isn't any different. They simply lack the competence.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zolexus

[DigitalPrime]

So they broke through because they were innovative? Well wooptidoo, that's what every designer misses the ball on nowadays. They copy WoW to the letter and expect it to steal all WoW's thunder.

 

It was innovative, well designed, polished and simply awesome for its time.

 

Any MMO that does this now will steal all subscribers away from anything else. Situation isn't any different. They simply lack the competence.

 

You are missing the point. Yes WoW was polished and had a great foundation. But there was no other that had this, everyone flocked to wow. the word got out and here we are. While in todays market we have many MMOs which are successful due to such things. We all have our own opinions and what we like. Each to there own. But back when WoW hit, nothing competed. Hence, its massive hold on the market. While in todays world. Competition would stop WoW doing this!

[Zolexus]

You are missing the point. Yes WoW was polished and had a great foundation. But there was no other that had this, everyone flocked to wow. the word got out and here we are. While in todays market we have many MMOs which are successful due to such things. We all have our own opinions and what we like. Each to there own. But back when WoW hit, nothing competed. Hence, its massive hold on the market. While in todays world. Competition would stop WoW doing this!

 

That's where our opinions differ and I doubt we'll reach a concensus. Unlike you, I do believe there was competition for WoW, I loved Asheron's Call, I thought it was polished and it had a lot of things to offer. Same for Ultima Online, Everquest, etc. Those were polished well-designed games (for their time), WoW simply rose above it by offering innovative things and giving something that no one back then was able to give.

 

A new game in this age could do the same and bounce WoW off just like WoW bounced AC/DaoC/etc off. I do believe guild wars 2 might be doing some bouncing soon, as what I read about it and saw is polished and innovative, they're trying something and it might succeed.

[DigitalPrime]

That's where our opinions differ and I doubt we'll reach a concensus. Unlike you, I do believe there was competition for WoW, I loved Asheron's Call, I thought it was polished and it had a lot of things to offer. Same for Ultima Online, Everquest, etc. Those were polished well-designed games (for their time), WoW simply rose above it by offering innovative things and giving something that no one back then was able to give.

 

A new game in this age could do the same and bounce WoW off just like WoW bounced AC/DaoC/etc off. I do believe guild wars 2 might be doing some bouncing soon, as what I read about it and saw is polished and innovative, they're trying something and it might succeed.

 

GW2 is a touchy one. Hype. just like we had with TOR. to be honest I didnt have any intention on playing it. But with more videos coming from TB youtube page. Im getting more interested. First few vids looked like a hack and slash (dynasty warriors). But the more i see, the more I like. But i will not bow down to hype again. And i know GW2 wont live up to its hype on launch. No MMO does. But... the inovation is really starting to shine through in the vids ive seen. Not too keen on the none trinity system. But im yet to play so i cant really comment to much.

 

But yeh it certainly does look interesting. Will it be a TOR killer. I doubt it. TOR has a massive IP which will keep them afloat no matter what hits. I just feel the hype around GW2 will be the same as the hype around TOR. Vaild for a set amount of time. Then when launch day hits. People will realise marketitng hype is a ****

[Lethality]

You are missing the point. Yes WoW was polished and had a great foundation. But there was no other that had this, everyone flocked to wow. the word got out and here we are. While in todays market we have many MMOs which are successful due to such things. We all have our own opinions and what we like. Each to there own. But back when WoW hit, nothing competed. Hence, its massive hold on the market. While in todays world. Competition would stop WoW doing this!

 

I've been following your argument the last page or so, and I have to say it's ridiculous.

 

There were concurrently running successful MMOs before WoW launched (EQ, AC, EvE, SWG, DAoC) and more... all with at least 100k+ subscribers). And since WoW, several MMOs that have come out have crashed and burned (Tabula Rasa, AoC, Vanguard, Warhammer) and there have been some that have had moderate success like the earlier games - LoTRO, DDO, DC, and more...)

 

The bottom line is the playing field is has it's ALWAYS been. The big difference is that WoW was such a masterfully crafted game it defined the genre as most people know (hence, the "standards" everyone talks about) and more importantly WoW actually EXPANDED the genre and brought more people into the idea of playing and subscribing to an MMO.

 

So the market is larger now... but the ratio of "successful" games? THe same as it always was.

 

Due to the quality of WoW, in every way, it would stomp out current competition if it came out today - because no one would be tired of it, it would be fresh and be mechanically better in every single way.

 

Not to mention, all of these other games have copied WoW in one way or another and couldn't even use that to their advantage after they had the benefit of watching WoW for years.

 

The only games that will compete with WoW for the "next-gen" are ones that break the mold and up the quality... one is a risk most aren't willing to take and the other most can't deliver. As has been proven by LoTRO, and now TOR, having a big name IP doesn't mean squat when it comes to retaining subscribers. The game has to be good.

 

GW2 has the next best shot.

 

And of course Titan will be breaking the mold completely... but success isn't guaranteed. But at least they're trying.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Lethality

[Lethality]

But yeh it certainly does look interesting. Will it be a TOR killer. I doubt it. TOR has a massive IP which will keep them afloat no matter what hits. I just feel the hype around GW2 will be the same as the hype around TOR. Vaild for a set amount of time. Then when launch day hits. People will realise marketitng hype is a ****

 

GW2 has marked, distinct differences - that they're willing to talk about, unlike BioWare was - that will either make the game crash and burn or have wild success.

[DigitalPrime]

I've been following your argument the last page or so, and I have to say it's ridiculous.

 

There were concurrently running successful MMOs before WoW launched (EQ, AC, EvE, SWG, DAoC) and more... all with at least 100k+ subscribers). And since WoW, several MMOs that have come out have crashed and burned (Tabula Rasa, AoC, Vanguard, Warhammer) and there have been some that have had moderate success like the earlier games - LoTRO, DDO, DC, and more...)

 

The bottom line is the playing field is has it's ALWAYS been. The big difference is that WoW was such a masterfully crafted game it defined the genre as most people know (hence, the "standards" everyone talks about) and more importantly WoW actually EXPANDED the genre and brought more people into the idea of playing and subscribing to an MMO.

 

So the market is larger now... but the ratio of "successful" games? THe same as it always was.

 

Due to the quality of WoW, in every way, it would stomp out current competition if it came out today - because no one would be tired of it, it would be fresh and be mechanically better in every single way.

 

Not to mention, all of these other games have copied WoW in one way or another and couldn't even use that to their advantage after they had the benefit of watching WoW for years.

 

The only games that will compete with WoW for the "next-gen" are ones that break the mold and up the quality... one is a risk most aren't willing to take and the other most can't deliver. As has been proven by LoTRO, and now TOR, having a big name IP doesn't mean squat when it comes to retaining subscribers. The game has to be good.

 

GW2 has the next best shot.

 

And of course Titan will be breaking the mold completely... but success isn't guaranteed. But at least they're trying.

 

Neiche SOE games. lol minimal subs. lacking quality. No competition compared to a polished game.

 

Its your opinion that you feel there is no quality games out now which would hold up to wow if it got launched now.

I feel thats alittle deluded, but its your opinion!

 

I just look at modern warfare titles from the same production company. Shocking game. rehashed each year. but it still sells. Kids love it and will shout from the high hills its the best game ever. Technically. no. And neither is wow. But back then WoW it was which ment alot.

[Lethality]

Neiche SOE games. lol minimal subs. lacking quality. No competition compared to a polished game.

 

Its your opinion that you feel there is no quality games out now which would hold up to wow if it got launched now.

I feel thats alittle deluded, but its your opinion!

 

I just look at modern warfare titles from the same production company. Shocking game. rehashed each year. but it still sells. Kids love it and will shout from the high hills its the best game ever. Technically. no. And neither is wow. But back then WoW it was which ment alot.

 

That is a silly, silly statement. They aren't niche or unpolished any more that TOR is today. The ratio of subscribers is the same because the MARKET IS BIGGER.

 

Ok, let's take your tact for a minute... WoW came out with a polished game and trounced the competition because "they weren't polished."

 

Are you saying TOR did the same thing to WoW? This is the whole point about "Blizzard gets it". Despite watching WoW evolve for 7 years, new games including TOR STILL DO NOT come out anywhere as closed to polished as WoW.

 

That, my friend, is perplexing, and why you see all the complaining.

[ycat]

 

Its your opinion that you feel there is no quality games out now which would hold up to wow if it got launched now.

I feel thats alittle deluded, but its your opinion!

 

LOL.

 

Its not an opinion, its a fact.

 

Look at every game out right now, WoW has the most players. Tell me, if there are quality games out now which compare/hold up to WoW, please enlighten me as to which ones they are. I dont play WoW, but simple numbers will tell you that nothing comes close to the popularity of that game. Even after all these years, WoW is still pretty much the most popular game on PC, especially in the MMO genre. Deal with it.

 

Also, yes, COD games sell a lot.... on console. They arnt really popular on PC. Console users are predominately a completely different type of gamer than PC gamers are, so i dont think that analogy has merit. I dont want to expand on this, as its pretty common sense.

 

Personally, I think you have no clue what you are talking about.

Edited March 28, 2012 by ycat

[Azzras]

LOL.

 

Its not an opinion, its a fact.

 

Look at every game out right now, WoW has the most players. Tell me, if there are quality games out now which compare/hold up to WoW, please enlighten me as to which ones they are. I dont play WoW, but simple numbers will tell you that nothing comes close to the popularity of that game. Even after all these years, WoW is still pretty much the most popular game on PC, especially in the MMO genre. Deal with it.

 

Also, yes, COD games sell a lot.... on console. They arnt really popular on PC. Console users are predominately a completely different type of gamer than PC gamers are, so i dont think that analogy has merit. I dont want to expand on this, as its pretty common sense.

 

Personally, I think you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Yup, China loves them some WoW.

 

With the way WoW servers are now, China must be the only people left playing.

 

Most of WoW's servers are dead. ZERO people in any of the leveling zones and only around 50 in Org/SW/IF at peak.

[RabidPopcorn]

Yup, China loves them some WoW.

 

With the way WoW servers are now, China must be the only people left playing.

 

Most of WoW's servers are dead. ZERO people in any of the leveling zones and only around 50 in Org/SW/IF at peak.

 

Chinese players aren't legitimate players now?

[Azzras]

Chinese players aren't legitimate players now?

 

I didn't say that, but they do not pay a subscription fee...unlike the rest of the world.

[Shingara]

 

Thing about Blizzard is they're allowing people the OPTION to have third-party mods, it doesn't mean they don't make their own parallels; it is just that these third-party mods have been so deeply ingrained into the game there's little incentive to redo them all over - why fix it if it isn't broken?

 

Here is the key to this debate. 3rd partys arnt an option in wow and wow never gave us that option. For them to be an option there would have to be an alternative in the core game to chose over the add on. And the incentive to implement them in the game even for wow is a simple one.

 

If these so called add ons are so standardized by wow then why is it that wow who mainatain there own engine and code cannot after 8 years even do the simplests thing like the UI, rift and sto managed the basics to it on release and swtor is starting it from the 4 month mark in.

 

So there is no incentive for wow to implememnt these things due to the fact that there are 3rd partys forced to maintain these addons that are standardized thus increasing profit for bliz due to A) they diont have to maintain the code B) can claim credit to there usefulness and attribute it to there core engine as if they had done it themselves.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Shingara

[moowart]

The comparisons to wow in every game really is a bit droll.. don't like SWTOR go back to WoW its that simple .. WoW has had years to do what they do and in the beginning had teething problems too... SWTOR has had only months..

 

Sheesh next thing you know peeps will be asking for fishing -_-

 

Close this thread its the same old same old... Bioware needs to hear what exactly .. Omg this doesn't suit me change it or there will be a mass exodus!

 

There are more then WoW players in this game give them time to do thier thing.. in the end if you are happy you will stay if no you wont.. its that simple

 

Who knows instead of being WoW SWTOR might develop its own niche and be successful for what it is

 

Star Wars The Old Republic

[Azzras]

The comparisons to wow in every game really is a bit droll.. don't like SWTOR go back to WoW its that simple .. WoW has had years to do what they do and in the beginning had teething problems too... SWTOR has had only months..

 

Sheesh next thing you know peeps will be asking for fishing -_-

 

Close this thread its the same old same old... Bioware needs to hear what exactly .. Omg this doesn't suit me change it or there will be a mass exodus!

 

There are more then WoW players in this game give them time to do thier thing.. in the end if you are happy you will stay if no you wont.. its that simple

 

Who knows instead of being WoW SWTOR might develop its own niche and be successful for what it is

 

Star Wars The Old Republic

 

I think this thread is left open so we don't have countless similar threads pop up.

 

Wrathbabies love them some WoW.

[Xerkrom]

Honestly, I loved WoW when i played it, it was a fantastic experience. But after that craptastic failure they call Cataclysm. I wanted to bash my face against a wall every time i played my Holy Paladin. They totally took a giant S*** on healing specs for me, which is my favorite thing to do, is play support roles. So i let my subscription run out. Now they're bringing Panda's into the game...i don't think i'll ever re-sub unless i hear something about healers not being punched in the gut again.