SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[damdragon]

If you want an MMO that is nothing like Warcraft, check out The Elder Scrolls Online when it's announced in May. I'm 100% certain it will be nothing like Warcraft.

 

Whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen. I don't have to tell anyone who has played an Elder Scrolls game how OP stealth is in that series.

 

*Shoots player in the head*

 

"OW! That guy shot me! Get him!"

 

*holds shift key*

 

"He's crouching! Hurry before he-dang it! He's gone."

 

I happen to be looking forward to this announcement, I love Elder scrolls games. They know how to do it IMO.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I happen to be looking forward to this announcement, I love Elder scrolls games. They know how to do it IMO.

 

Keep telling yourself that when the PvP complaints roll in.

 

Crouch 2 Win!

[damdragon]

lol it's a format that works...there is only a few ways to do an mmo...personally...i like the ultima online / SWG approach of customization...but WoW and TOR are PvE / PvP driven...again...not a bad thing...but it's what people want to play.

 

success on the part of blizzard hasn't crippled the industry...and i'll admit...legacy is a diverging aspect that WoW never capitalized on...but it can't be a cornerstone...there still needs to be that bit of familiarity, especially with things as simple as ui, dual-spec, rated battlegrounds, and plethora of endgame content.

 

I'm not an elitist or anything, however I have been playing MMO's for many many years. Over the past decade the attitude towards these kinds of games has changed greatly, wow has changed the landscape allowing everyone to enjoy what used to be only for nerds, or geeks. Unfortunately from my perspective I have only seen a decline in the quality of gaming I seek. However 15 bucks is cheap enough to sway the industry in the direction of soccer moms and children who just want to crap in the sandbox.

 

Many good innovations have come from blizzard, but I feel they left the heart and soul of the genre in their dust, and this disappoints me.

[damdragon]

Keep telling yourself that when the PvP complaints roll in.

 

Crouch 2 Win!

 

I'm assuming they will take some effort for balance, but I bet they will have an arena in Elder Scrolls and players aren't quite as stupid as mobs, I can see a guy crouching, hes not really invisible.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I'm assuming they will take some effort for balance, but I bet they will have an arena in Elder Scrolls and players aren't quite as stupid as mobs, I can see a guy crouching, hes not really invisible.

 

Tell that to the city guards.

 

"I WILL FIND YOU!"

 

Fool I'm right behind this small rock you've circled six times. You will never find me.

[CrunkShizzle]

i was more excited about the elder scrolls mmo before i heard it wasnt gonna be skyrim

[Pythoris]

Yes, SWTOR is now competing with today's WOW. I get that. I think everyone already gets that. So that Blizz dev or whomever he was really didn't even have to bother wasting his breath saying that. But I think the true facts are what he's trying to divert from with that little tidbit. What is it called, something like "strawman" or other? I forgot the word for it. Hey, you want an English Master, consult my mother.

 

Anyway, my point is this. Yes, WoW has more today than SWTOR does. Right now. But there are other facts to consider here...

 

1. Yes, SWTOR launched with way more content than vanilla WOW did back in it's beginner days. Also with way more interesting content, though that's just my opinion. For an MMO that has just launched, the content it came with is well beyond impressive.

 

2. SWTOR's content is growing even now as we speak. Blizzard hardly ever made new content for WoW that wasn't an expansion you had to buy. It seems, contrary to the title of this thread, that it's really Bioware that "gets it" in this department. You don't wait almost a year to update your game. That's stupid.

 

3. SWTOR shows more potential than WoW. Coming out the gate with so much content, and constantly updating with new content, SWTOR will be WoW's size well before long. And then easily surpass it. Comparing WoW now to SWTOR now is like comparing the might of a full-grown horse to a tiger cub. Yes, the horse is bigger, stronger, and could easily stomp the cub to death, so the cub is no match for the horse at present. But give the cub like a couple of years to grow height, muscle, powerful fangs and sharp claws, then put them in a match and see who wins. If you're smart, you won't put your money on the horse. If you're really smart, it won't be your horse you're pitting against the tiger.

 

Add all this to the fact that Star Wars is by far a much more powerful franchise than Warcraft ever was or ever will be, along with Bioware's excellent story-telling techniques (also the fact that story and lore always took a backseat to everything else in WoW and was all but completely ignored by Blizz devs) and you have a recipe for the first true powerhouse contender for the MMO crown. If Blizz does decide to kill WoW, whatever. It would only be saving them the inevitability of watching Bioware pull the plug for them later. I know there are those who would disagree. But this is just how I see it.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

i was more excited about the elder scrolls mmo before i heard it wasnt gonna be skyrim

 

I think you can journey to Skrim in ESO.

[Roechacca]

I never played WoW. Just not my type of MMO. But I will say if they're still around with millions of subs they're doing something right. I honestly don't care about the success or failure of that MMO. What difference does it make here anyways? Play em both if that's what floats your boat.

[illgot]

My favorite comparison to how stupid the argument of "World of Warcraft didn't have this feature at start" is a cell phone.

 

10 years ago cell phones didn't have G4 capability, 8 mega pixel cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access, and "the cloud". But do you think a customer is going to listen to you if you tell them the new cell phone they are buying today is on par with a cell phone 10 years ago?

[kidatwood]

Actually BW gets my sub and well wow got it for 4 years they don't get it anymore!! LOL!

[Oofpez]

Bioware trying to emulate wow... is a vast understatement. SWtor is a wow clone through and through. Which IMO is a bad thing, I for one am spent on the wow format, I just don't understand what kind of players SWtor is trying to attract with a wow clone that is inferior to the original.

 

Yes it is prettier, and starwars themed but everything else is mundane, I could go on about the failed concepts and missed opportunities that are rampant through this game. However this would be unfair, because wow is also a giant turd now a days.

 

I don't know how many other out their are similar to me, but I want to see some innovation in my gaming, and not the kind that takes the RPG out of it. Dungeon and raid finders are fine things but makes it feel like an arcade game, where the world outside these little scenarios either doesn't exist or doesn't matter.

 

I started playing MMOs when interaction between players and developing your character were still evident, SWG was and remains my favorite.

 

So no I don't think Blizzard gets it. At least not for my entertainment dollars, and SWtor baffles me to no end.

 

 

So it's a WoW clone... so what? WoW has proved itself successful over the years... why not copy it? Honestly, I never played WoW. I could never convince my parents to pay $15 a month for the game, and when the time came that I could pay for things that I wanted, WoW seemed a little dated to me (played the free trial, couldn't really get hooked, seemed really maplestoryish in how the progressions worked (i.e. I'm just killing things to kill things. No real explanation why), but I enjoyed the environment and how the gameplay felt). However, I heard a lot over the years about how successful WoW was.

 

I dabbled a little into Rift, and to me, it suffered the same problems that kept me from subscribing to WoW, and I realized I didn't really like endgame.

 

Now comes along TOR. I see gameplay and to me, the combat looks like WoW, with prettier graphics (not THAT much better, but most other clones don't have points in looks either), and it's Star Wars. I bought the game, and it hooked me. I had more fun going from 1-30 in TOR than getting from 1-50 in Rift. I feel that WoW has plateaued, but TOR has much more room to grow, and attract more people.

 

In response to all the people saying that a clone is a bad thing. Explain why CoD does so well every year (you may hate it, but its success is still undeniable), or why Dynasty Warriors (even though it's the same game with better graphics) still sells copy after copy.

 

Gamers in general have proven to be very against any sort of change.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

My favorite comparison to how stupid the argument of "World of Warcraft didn't have this feature at start" is a cell phone.

 

10 years ago cell phones didn't have G4 capability, 8 mega pixel cameras, apps for everything, unlimited web access, and "the cloud". But do you think a customer is going to listen to you if you tell them the new cell phone they are buying today is on par with a cell phone 10 years ago?

 

We have lasers, droids, ships capable of traveling at the speed of light from one galaxy to the next.

 

But not ONE service provider can make a holocommunicator that has full bars in the Dagobah system.

 

Seriously.

[Florial]

Yes, SWTOR is now competing with today's WOW. I get that. I think everyone already gets that. So that Blizz dev or whomever he was really didn't even have to bother wasting his breath saying that. But I think the true facts are what he's trying to divert from with that little tidbit. What is it called, something like "strawman" or other? I forgot the word for it. Hey, you want an English Master, consult my mother.

 

Anyway, my point is this. Yes, WoW has more today than SWTOR does. Right now. But there are other facts to consider here...

 

1. Yes, SWTOR launched with way more content than vanilla WOW did back in it's beginner days. Also with way more interesting content, though that's just my opinion. For an MMO that has just launched, the content it came with is well beyond impressive.

 

2. SWTOR's content is growing even now as we speak. Blizzard hardly ever made new content for WoW that wasn't an expansion you had to buy. It seems, contrary to the title of this thread, that it's really Bioware that "gets it" in this department. You don't wait almost a year to update your game. That's stupid.

 

3. SWTOR shows more potential than WoW. Coming out the gate with so much content, and constantly updating with new content, SWTOR will be WoW's size well before long. And then easily surpass it. Comparing WoW now to SWTOR now is like comparing the might of a full-grown horse to a tiger cub. Yes, the horse is bigger, stronger, and could easily stomp the cub to death, so the cub is no match for the horse at present. But give the cub like a couple of years to grow height, muscle, powerful fangs and sharp claws, then put them in a match and see who wins. If you're smart, you won't put your money on the horse. If you're really smart, it won't be your horse you're pitting against the tiger.

 

Add all this to the fact that Star Wars is by far a much more powerful franchise than Warcraft ever was or ever will be, along with Bioware's excellent story-telling techniques (also the fact that story and lore always took a backseat to everything else in WoW and was all but completely ignored by Blizz devs) and you have a recipe for the first true powerhouse contender for the MMO crown. If Blizz does decide to kill WoW, whatever. It would only be saving them the inevitability of watching Bioware pull the plug for them later. I know there are those who would disagree. But this is just how I see it.

 

I have to agree with you here and very well written post. I played WoW 30 days after its launch. I quickly lost interest after 6 months or so and went back to EQ2 and spent a few years there. WoW was a fun game at launch but didn't grab me like some other titles. It was fun but a bit like a quick sugar fix and not substantial. We returned to WoW about a year ago and were amazed at how much was in the game. WoW is a fantastic game in every way (except the community) but it took awhile to get to where it is now. WoW (and other MMOs) do many things great. I loved WoW for all the content, for all the fun fluffy thingd it has (pets, fishing, cooking, archeology, achievement system, etc). WoW is a great game but I have great respect for other MMOs out there as well that do many things well and....better. LoTR---great community, housing, fantastic music system, fantastic story, etc. EQ2--housing, achievements, crafting, etc, etc, etc....so much content.

 

I think that BioWare will have a pretty good game on their hands. They have growing pains, that is for sure. If they continue to add content, add good hard stuff for the raider out there, add fluffy content for the casual player like me, they will have a good solid hit on their hands.

 

I'm pretty excited about all the gaming goodies out there right now. GW2, Secret World, Archage. These are great gaming times for us avid gamers and I'm really excited. Just wished that I was a bit younger and could last another 20 years to see where the gaming world will go. Good times indeed.

[Jenzali]

I'll stick with playing in a community of people who actually socialize, are polite, and make an effort to form excellent in-game grouping experiences.

 

The cross-server anonymity in WoW is horrendous.

[Ramayana]

Another thing that's been around since ANH is defection. Han Solo, for instance, started life as an Imperial Navel officer before becoming a smuggler.

 

They could have opted for the EQ2 approach. Start in one faction and through the course of play get the option to move to the other faction based on moral alignment.

 

Never heard of a Jedi falling to the darkside and joining a galactic empire?

 

But then why didn't Han Solo have an Imperial accent then?

 

Can you explain that to me. Nearly every other Imperial sounds the same as one another.

 

And why was he so rude to Borat?

[Seriasx]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR.

 

When SWTOR came out there was a vocal minority arguing that what SWTOR is now is better than WoW at release. They reasoned that SWTOR offers more to players than WoW did at release, their comparisons are often driven towards saying, "yeah - SWTOR did this wrong at release, but WoW did it worse when it was first released." The argument relies on the idea that developers cannot compete with 10 years of ongoing development, that features and content in WoW now was developed over 10 years.

 

This is of course all rubbish, and Blizzard seems to get that:

 

 

 

Whilst the criticism is certainly in keep with Blizzard "post-competitor release PR machine", he's damn right. He couldn't be more right if he tried. I do not PvE... at all... aside from raids I run with my guild. Why? Because finding a group is so very tiresome, especially considering that in most MMOs today the feature to find a group easily is center stage. A lack of Dunegon Finder is a big thing, a big omission, something that should be in 1.2. We're not getting it in 1.2, that's obvious, and we'll get it at some point in the future, but it's such a big thing that SWTOR is half a game for not having it.

 

That's a bit part however. 1.2 goes a long way to bringing SWTOR in line with modern MMOs, as opposed to being 10 steps behind them. Bioware obviously knows that they are competing with WoW now, not WoW at launch. 1.2 and 1.3 are likely to add in pretty much every major feature that WoW has on SWTOR, and we're likely to see more in the way of gameplay variety coming in the future.

 

I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly.

 

The part you dont seem to understand is that WoW did not just add these over the last 10 years, they WORKED on these for the last 10 years so yeah swtor is competing against WoW at launch if you can grasp that all of those features require a great deal of work.

[Roechacca]

I'll stick with playing in a community of people who actually socialize, are polite, and make an effort to form excellent in-game grouping experiences.

 

The cross-server anonymity in WoW is horrendous.

 

when you find this game you will let us know right?

[Agemnon]

in before closing.

 

WOW equals medieval fantasy cr**. No thanks.

 

BW should have looked at concepts of GW2, Archeage and The Secret World instead, not a ten year old MMO oldie with Pandas.

 

I like medieval fantasy but... it is very, very played out =( Future fantasy such as Star Wars surprisingly not so much outside of the FPS and strategy/sandbox genres. Now, contemporary fantasy, preferably not using the actual real world as a setting (though doing so isn't a bad thing either, and I plan on trying The Secret World), but rather a make believe contemporary world like in Earthbound, Arc the Lad, or Final Fantasy VII, with an optional city that is a hopeless and obvious copy of New York, would be good.

 

A contemporary MMORPG that takes place in a contemporary world very similar to, but not ours with playable vampires (and humans, but not have factions so you'd have a mixed bag of humans and vampires vs. each other in battlegrounds) would simply be awesome. Or, like Final Fantasy VIII, take place in that weird spot between contemporary and futuristic, like what we think 50-100 years might look like technologically.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Agemnon

[Agemnon]

But then why didn't Han Solo have an Imperial accent then?

 

Can you explain that to me. Nearly every other Imperial sounds the same as one another.

 

And why was he so rude to Borat?

 

I think the Han Solo being an Imperial lieutenant was retconned by EU writers.

[Macabakur]

I hope this doesn't sound like i'm coming down on ToR, because I do really enjoy alot of the parts of the game. It's just not very unique. I read an article by one of the main producers of ToR, saying he was upset by all the people looking for a brand new unique experience and how mmo's are a genre that has certain characteristics that all follow. It still is just way too much like WoW. I mean it's cool, because it's easy for me to understand, because I played WoW for so long, but, man I need it to feel new, and not just WoW, plus voice acting. Which it feels like sometimes. As you can see though by my character list, I have put time into the game, so I've seen alot this game has to offer. I will keep playing I think, just, I'd love it to be more unique.

 

Not in a bad way though, as orange moddable everything and 3 prefix gear that all has the same name. that's not what I mean by unique. But, whatever, I think the devs are getting the message that most of us are sending. It's not enough, we like the game but if it doesn't get better we'll probably leave. That's the feeling I get off most of the board topics. People want to stay, they just can't wait forever for this game to get out of it's weaning stages.

[Kubernetic]

Yawn.

 

More armchair analysis from the "My Dad can beat up your Dad" crowd.

[Maltuvion]

I hope this doesn't sound like i'm coming down on ToR, because I do really enjoy alot of the parts of the game. It's just not very unique. I read an article by one of the main producers of ToR, saying he was upset by all the people looking for a brand new unique experience and how mmo's are a genre that has certain characteristics that all follow. It still is just way too much like WoW. I mean it's cool, because it's easy for me to understand, because I played WoW for so long, but, man I need it to feel new, and not just WoW, plus voice acting. Which it feels like sometimes. As you can see though by my character list, I have put time into the game, so I've seen alot this game has to offer. I will keep playing I think, just, I'd love it to be more unique.

 

Not in a bad way though, as orange moddable everything and 3 prefix gear that all has the same name. that's not what I mean by unique. But, whatever, I think the devs are getting the message that most of us are sending. It's not enough, we like the game but if it doesn't get better we'll probably leave. That's the feeling I get off most of the board topics. People want to stay, they just can't wait forever for this game to get out of it's weaning stages.

 

This. Plus the OP. So. Much. Truth.

[Darkulous]

Dude, OP, I agree.

 

Currently I still hold a sub for both games. That alone shows that TOR, at least for me, did not blow my socks off. Don't get me wrong, there are some things with TOR that are fantastic, but it seems there are an equal amount of things that have disappointed me.

 

Without going into several paragraphs detailing every plus or minus, I'll just say this; TOR looks new but plays OLD.

 

It's so frustrating that two of my favorite stories of all-time, LOTR and Star Wars, can be so mediocre in MMO's. Both developers have been too arrogant.

[Wintersbreath]

I agree with the OP. By not emplementing these changings and consolidating servers bioware is going to wound themselves in ways that are going to be hard to come back from. I enjoy the game in alot of ways but pvp is starting to take to long and I dont pve at all because of the difficulty in finding groups.