Noble Sacrifice Problem

[Beyaco]

Just left a WZ and something bothered me enough to create this thread Noble sacrifice is my problem.

 

I was in a civil war pug group and we had 1 healer. Most of us had 15 to 16k health. So, our healer notices this and starts to talk about the doom and gloom. Before the match could even be considered "over" - when your team has double the other teams points - he is sitting at a node spamming Noble sacrifice and healing himself....

 

Are there any reasons a sage would need to use noble sacrifice out of combat? Besides trying to farm medals...

 

I am suggesting that this ability is hurting the team in some cases. The healer would rather get HIS medals on his own rather than help out and get medals as a team. By healing his teammates.

 

My solution would be to make noble sacrifice SUBTRACT from your healing totals. Another solution is to make the ability only usable IN COMBAT.

 

Discuss! Let me know why you disagree or agree!

[owlinspace]

no.. beacuse sometimes we actually have to use noble sacrifice, if it's an emergency.

 

What you should do is tell me that he sucks.

 

Really sad that he did that instead of helping.. I'd bet it'd be 100 times more fun.. even if you'd would've lost.

 

And you can't get enough healing for anything other that maybe 75k medal that way anyway. You'd be bored long before you could actually drain 300k hp from yourself..

[Grubfist]

Just left a WZ and something bothered me enough to create this thread Noble sacrifice is my problem.

 

I was in a civil war pug group and we had 1 healer. Most of us had 15 to 16k health. So, our healer notices this and starts to talk about the doom and gloom. Before the match could even be considered "over" - when your team has double the other teams points - he is sitting at a node spamming Noble sacrifice and healing himself....

 

Are there any reasons a sage would need to use noble sacrifice out of combat? Besides trying to farm medals...

 

I am suggesting that this ability is hurting the team in some cases. The healer would rather get HIS medals on his own rather than help out and get medals as a team. By healing his teammates.

 

My solution would be to make noble sacrifice SUBTRACT from your healing totals. Another solution is to make the ability only usable IN COMBAT.

 

Discuss! Let me know why you disagree or agree!

 

There are reasons to use it out of combat, but the point of your post is irrelevant anyways. If you make it unusable out of combat, they'll find another way to farm medals, from taking acid and fire baths in Huttball to running away from objectives to get into a fight. You can't stop them from having a "lazy selfish ******e" personality just by changing one way they mess with the medal system.

[BadNewzzz]

Does it really matter that much if a healer get one or two more medals? you only get payed for 4 anyway. We will get nerfed so hard in 1.2 so enjoy the healers you got now, soon you have none.

[Beyaco]

no.. beacuse sometimes we actually have to use noble sacrifice, if it's an emergency.

 

What you should do is tell me that he sucks.

 

Really sad that he did that instead of helping.. I'd bet it'd be 100 times more fun.. even if you'd would've lost.

 

And you can't get enough healing for anything other that maybe 75k medal that way anyway. You'd be bored long before you could actually drain 300k hp from yourself..

 

Few things here. First, I was asking for a example of when it would be better to use noble sacrifice out of combat rather than hitting the rest/reload/glowy button?

 

Second, I gave 2 solutions. The first solution is to just make it subtract from your healing totals. You are in fact taking your health and giving it right back to yourself. Not sure why that would add to your healing totals. I think this would be the best path.

 

My other solution would be to make it only usable during combat. To be honest, I can't think of any reason why it would be better to use noble sacrifice out of combat versus just resting. In fact, I sometimes try and sprint away to lose combat, rather than use noble sacrifice, sometimes.

 

As far as saying that they can usually only get the 75k medal...Well, nothing is stopping them from TRYING to get the 300k one...I would assume that someone along the lines of the person I described above, thinks something like, "The earlier that you start, the better chance.."

Edited March 24, 2012 by Beyaco

[Beyaco]

There are reasons to use it out of combat, but the point of your post is irrelevant anyways. If you make it unusable out of combat, they'll find another way to farm medals, from taking acid and fire baths in Huttball to running away from objectives to get into a fight. You can't stop them from having a "lazy selfish ******e" personality just by changing one way they mess with the medal system.

 

This just fixes one of the loopholes. They would have to heal other people that are fighting. Only in the case of huttball would they be able to just damage and heal themselves. All healers have this option, not only sage. So, that would make sense to me.

 

What reasons are there to use it out of combat? And if you did use it out of combat, would you object to it subtracting from your heal totals?

Edited March 24, 2012 by Beyaco

[Beyaco]

Does it really matter that much if a healer get one or two more medals? you only get payed for 4 anyway. We will get nerfed so hard in 1.2 so enjoy the healers you got now, soon you have none.

 

It is about participation in gaining medals. I do have a problem if a guy can come into a warzone, tell us how much we suck and proceed to heal himself and camp on a node and get his 4 medals without helping. You don't see anything wrong with getting medals for actually hurting your teammates?

[Grubfist]

This just fixes one of the loopholes. They would have to heal other people that are fighting. Only in the case of huttball would they be able to just damage and heal themselves. All healers have this option, not only sage. So, that would make sense to me.

 

What reasons are there to use it out of combat? And if you did use it out of combat, would you object to it subtracting from your heal totals?

 

I have no problem with healing out of combat not counting towards medals or heal totals. That is a far better argument that I have seen brought up before.

 

But if I finished a fight with 100% hp and 2% force, I'm gonna use a lot of noble sacrifice + healing myself to get back to full. Or noble sacrifice til my hp and force percentages are the same, then meditate.

[Armaso]

Completey insignificant, there is no problem here. He is at a node defending it. If he stays there, he gets 2 medals for def. If enemies come, could get 3-4 more in a decent fight. Medals are capped at 4 so the real question is this. Who fracking cares about a guy cutting himself and healing back up when he is the one who is actually staying to defend? Why do you children continually look for every little detail to cry about? Especially things that do not matter in the slightest. It's pathetic

[Grubfist]

Completey insignificant, there is no problem here. He is at a node defending it. If he stays there, he gets 2 medals for def. If enemies come, could get 3-4 more in a decent fight. Medals are capped at 4 so the real question is this. Who fracking cares about a guy cutting himself and healing back up when he is the one who is actually staying to defend? Why do you children continually look for every little detail to cry about? Especially things that do not matter in the slightest. It's pathetic

 

I care because when he brings himself to 30% hp and a stealther jumps him, we're down a man defending and lose the base quite fast, as we rely on healers to provide longevity and allow reinforcements to have time to approach.

[Beyaco]

I have no problem with healing out of combat not counting towards medals or heal totals. That is a far better argument that I have seen brought up before.

 

But if I finished a fight with 100% hp and 2% force, I'm gonna use a lot of noble sacrifice + healing myself to get back to full. Or noble sacrifice til my hp and force percentages are the same, then meditate.

 

From playing my sage, I have looked into the timing and it is not really that much different. Don't get technical, it's just a small example. On my 40 sage, if I use all of my force from spamming benevolence (would leave me with less than 50 force), I would have to use noble sacrifice about 4 to 5 times and then my meditation, totaling about 12 seconds (4 seconds from noble sacrificing and 8 seconds of resting). If I use my meditation alone, it takes about 10 seconds of just resting...

Edited March 24, 2012 by Beyaco

[Giondi]

Few things here. First, I was asking for a example of when it would be better to use noble sacrifice out of combat rather than hitting the rest/reload/glowy button?

 

You have less Force than HP, so you Consume to gain a bunch of Force quickly then Seethe to top off both bars. You have Force Surge procced, so you get the free 8% instantly before Seething to get the rest a bit more slowly. You need to get back into combat quickly, so you take the fastest regen option. You aren't missing much Force, so you Consume once and are ready to go.

 

Second, I gave 2 solutions. The first solution is to just make it subtract from your healing totals. You are in fact taking your health and giving it right back to yourself. Not sure why that would add to your healing totals. I think this would be the best path.

 

With the changes to Force Surge, this would be horrible. You're already not going to see that many Sorc/Sage healers in premades (not because they'll stop being good, because people will think they aren't good, my god, look at these forums if you think I'm wrong). If they changed our Force regen ability to give negatives to our healing totals every time we hurt ourselves with it, that would be changed to none at all.

 

My other solution would be to make it only usable during combat. To be honest, I can't think of any reason why it would be better to use noble sacrifice out of combat versus just resting. In fact, I sometimes try and sprint away to lose combat, rather than use noble sacrifice, sometimes.

 

See above, and also you are bad. Your team needs enough heals that your Force bar is getting low, so you run away from combat rather than use one of your abilities to stay in the fight?

 

As far as saying that they can usually only get the 75k medal...Well, nothing is stopping them from TRYING to get the 300k one...I would assume that someone along the lines of the person I described above, thinks something like, "The earlier that you start, the better chance.."

 

Sure. They absolutely can attempt to get their four medals that way. Most people don't because it makes you work way harder than you need to. The four easiest medals to get as a Sorc healer are: 2500 single heal (Dark Infusion doesn't even have to crit for me to get that any more), 75k total heal (combination of self heals (with Consume) and team heals (Revivification)), 10 kills (drop your AOE heal a couple times, with the way kills count for healers now, you get that accidentally), killing blow (Force Storm in the middle of a fight, you're bound to get one). With medals being this easy, I really don't get why people choose this issue to be upset about.

[Beyaco]

Completey insignificant, there is no problem here. He is at a node defending it. If he stays there, he gets 2 medals for def. If enemies come, could get 3-4 more in a decent fight. Medals are capped at 4 so the real question is this. Who fracking cares about a guy cutting himself and healing back up when he is the one who is actually staying to defend? Why do you children continually look for every little detail to cry about? Especially things that do not matter in the slightest. It's pathetic

 

What is pathetic is when the teams only healer decides to quit and start farming medals before the game is already over. There is a problem with a healer gaining medals without contributing. You say he is defending? Great! Let him earn the defense medals, just like the rest of us!

 

I care about the health of the game. Try and responding to the thread and not spatting off about a bunch of nonsense. A guy crying, about people who cry, interesting...

[Grubfist]

From playing my sage, I have looked into the timing and it is not really that much different. Don't get technical, it's just a small example. On my 40 sage, if I use all of my force from spamming benevolence (would leave me with less than 50 force), I would have to use noble sacrifice about 4 to 5 times and then my meditation, totaling about 12 seconds (4 seconds from noble sacrificing and 8 seconds of resting). If I use my meditation alone, it takes about 10 seconds of just resting...

 

Yes, but the meditation relies on you not being attacked at any point during this. Because of stealthers, I want to make my force and hp be respectable before I try to heal them both up.

 

I'd rather be caught at 60% hp and force than at 100% hp and 5% force.

[Irishbrewed]

Medal cap is 4. If ppl are still farming medals then they need some hooked on phonics

[Beyaco]

With the changes to Force Surge, this would be horrible. You're already not going to see that many Sorc/Sage healers in premades (not because they'll stop being good, because people will think they aren't good, my god, look at these forums if you think I'm wrong). If they changed our Force regen ability to give negatives to our healing totals every time we hurt ourselves with it, that would be changed to none at all.

 

See above, and also you are bad. Your team needs enough heals that your Force bar is getting low, so you run away from combat rather than use one of your abilities to stay in the fight?

 

There is nothing that makes me believe that making noble sacrifice subtract from healing totals would hurt any sage that is actually playing the game. This is not about fancy numbers on the scoreboard, but a way to discourage guys from just sitting around healing themselves for medals.

 

As far as sprinting away to line of sight and lose combat...Yeah, I'm bad then.

[Smashbrother]

Just left a WZ and something bothered me enough to create this thread Noble sacrifice is my problem.

 

I was in a civil war pug group and we had 1 healer. Most of us had 15 to 16k health. So, our healer notices this and starts to talk about the doom and gloom. Before the match could even be considered "over" - when your team has double the other teams points - he is sitting at a node spamming Noble sacrifice and healing himself....

 

Are there any reasons a sage would need to use noble sacrifice out of combat? Besides trying to farm medals...

 

I am suggesting that this ability is hurting the team in some cases. The healer would rather get HIS medals on his own rather than help out and get medals as a team. By healing his teammates.

 

My solution would be to make noble sacrifice SUBTRACT from your healing totals. Another solution is to make the ability only usable IN COMBAT.

 

Discuss! Let me know why you disagree or agree!

 

If you guys had two nodes, and he was guarding one of your two nodes, I really don't see an issue with what he's doing.

 

If you guys only had one node and were going to lose, than ya he's being a dick for not helping. A healer (especially if they're the only healer) should never be defending a node by himself. It's a super waste of resources.

[Armaso]

What is pathetic is when the teams only healer decides to quit and start farming medals before the game is already over. There is a problem with a healer gaining medals without contributing. You say he is defending? Great! Let him earn the defense medals, just like the rest of us!

 

I care about the health of the game. Try and responding to the thread and not spatting off about a bunch of nonsense. A guy crying, about people who cry, interesting...

 

There are very distinct differences between your crying about nothing and my being upset with people like you trashing up the game and spamming up the forums. I did respond to your thread and the response fit like a glove. It comes as no surprise that you don't see it that way.

[Grubfist]

There are very distinct differences between your crying about nothing and my being upset with people like you trashing up the game and spamming up the forums. I did respond to your thread and the response fit like a glove. It comes as no surprise that you don't see it that way.

 

While I think his ideas are a bit silly, he's presenting them in a calm and rational way, and isn't "trashing up the forums."

 

There is nothing wrong with having a complaint, that isn't "QQ", what is wrong is when people demand changes and refuse to listen to people that attempt to explain how the mechanics for certain abilities work, and situations where a nerf would be a bit unfair.

Complaints can be made in a calm and rational way, with fair discussion. That's not "QQing".

Never having any complaints is fine and dandy, but being outraged that other people have complaints is just being a ludicrous fanboy.

 

Troll harder next time.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Grubfist

[Beyaco]

Yes, but the meditation relies on you not being attacked at any point during this. Because of stealthers, I want to make my force and hp be respectable before I try to heal them both up.

 

I'd rather be caught at 60% hp and force than at 100% hp and 5% force.

 

This is where noble sacrifice should really be used DURING combat, lol...See what I'm saying?

 

I totally understand what you are saying, but I think it would bring a good dynamic to the game for stealthers and would get rid of a horrible one, letting guys pad their healing numbers.

[Grubfist]

This is where noble sacrifice should really be used DURING combat, lol...See what I'm saying?

 

I totally understand what you are saying, but I think it would bring a good dynamic to the game for stealthers and would get rid of a horrible one, letting guys pad their healing numbers.

 

I agree that people shouldn't be rewarded for padding, and I fully support any plan to make out-of-combat healing not count on the scoreboard. But I think subtracting from your healing score is silly and I think restricting Noble Sacrifice's use is silly.

 

I'm open to solutions, but I don't believe the ones you've proposed would be helpful.

[rizBRAH]

I see Sages sitting at a node all game spamming this all the time, they usually go on to top the healing and get the most mvp votes.. canny sad really, especially since they seem to tap their life down so low they could be onehit by a stealther and lose the node.

 

Best to just ignore these people, if they werent kept busy being useless they would be moaning in chat 'how terror rep are on this server'.

[Beyaco]

I agree that people shouldn't be rewarded for padding, and I fully support any plan to make out-of-combat healing not count on the scoreboard. But I think subtracting from your healing score is silly and I think restricting Noble Sacrifice's use is silly.

 

I'm open to solutions, but I don't believe the ones you've proposed would be helpful.

 

Now, ask why people disagree with you!

 

I am just tossing out ideas to try and stop the garbage stat padding for medals. If you want a medal, go and pvp for it and help the team!

 

I was frustrated because some guy didn't contribute one bit, and healed himself for almost 300k. Got all his medals by hurting, rather than helping the team.

[BadNewzzz]

It is about participation in gaining medals. I do have a problem if a guy can come into a warzone, tell us how much we suck and proceed to heal himself and camp on a node and get his 4 medals without helping. You don't see anything wrong with getting medals for actually hurting your teammates?

 

What do you mean with camp on a node? someone have to defend it, how is that not helping? And many times have i been stuck defending a door or a turret just because no one else want to, i ask in op chat for someone to change with me since a healer is a waste defending alone, i would do much more good healing the team.

 

So the class should be nerfed because there are some idiots playing it? if they behave bad just /ignore them and stop worry about how many medals someone get. What would change if that person got 500 less valor?

[BBCHiyde]

What do you mean with camp on a node? someone have to defend it, how is that not helping? And many times have i been stuck defending a door or a turret just because no one else want to, i ask in op chat for someone to change with me since a healer is a waste defending alone, i would do much more good healing the team.

 

So the class should be nerfed because there are some idiots playing it? if they behave bad just /ignore them and stop worry about how many medals someone get. What would change if that person got 500 less valor?

 

Any healer that would sit and try to top 300k healing themselves nonstop is an idiot.

 

As a healer, I'll do it in the following situations, ONLY in CW:

 

I get stuck alone guarding the node and don't have 4 medals.

The game is mathematically over (without 3 nodes) and I don't have 4 medals.

 

The second I get 4 medals, I stop.

 

And..there's no reason to zap all your force. I Noble Sacrifice -> heal -> rinse/repeat.

 

If my force gets below 90% I stop and use my regen button so I never get caught in a killable position.

 

Non-issue. Bads are Bads and changing THIS won't stop them from being so.

 

P.S. MVP votes are rarely given out for actual performance. I've been at the top in DPS (or healing), objectives, kills, least deaths, name it...and gotten zero votes. I've had a crappy game where I just got zerged nonstop and gotten 4 votes I didn't deserve lol.

Edited March 25, 2012 by BBCHiyde