SPF_Coppertone Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) ok so i've been doing some pvp and i've made some observations. I have played pvp competitively in over 40 games and this is my feedback... do what you want with it. 1) The number one issue i have is commendations, your system is bloated with different types of commendations. All of which have this arbitrary maximum number of 1,000. This cap is the big reason i dont pvp anymore... once i've reached the cap on both why even bother. I was planning on getting battlemaster tokens, but i cant even purchse those until lvl 50, so basically i've wasted many hours of my life. 2) same 16 people playing huttball over and over. you have 3 pvp instances total. People lack a desire to join them because the only good reward is the battlemaster set, which takes 4,000 warzone commendations for one token. which is fine except for the fact that you wont let us save them... 3) There is no competitiveness in your pvp. Even World of noobcrack had an arena system. All people do in your pvp is run around smashing the same 2-3 buttons chasing eachothers tails. It lacks depth and challenge. 4) Elo system you plan on bringing into a random queue warzone type game. Elo is meant to be a PERSONAL rating of how ONE person performs. That's why its used in CHESS. If you need any proof of this go play games like league of legends that rate you individually on 5 peoples performance. 5) pvp gear has no place in the game. always learn from history... there is no incentive to get battlemaster gear if its stuffed with a pvp stat that is only useful in a small pool of pvp areas that have no real reward. PvP gear that is obtained from "warzones or battlegrounds" are intended to be used in higher level competitive environments. Thats why people waste the time to get them. you have no higher level competitive environment, nothing at all. So what can we learn from this post? Battlegrounds type maps are meant to appease the casual pvper, your pvp gear has no role in the game and your commendation system punishes the very few people who took the time to grind them. On a scale of 1 - 10 i give the pvp in this game the following ratings difficulty: 1 (its made for the casual masses who like to run around an smash buttons) rewards: 3 ( this is based on the fact that you get a decent xp reward, the commendation system is a joke) rating system: 1 ( you dont have one.) variety: 3 ( who wants to play huttball 37 times in a row, i mean really? outside of that you have 3 total pvp instances and a completely empty pvp planet.) grind: 1 (the pvp is one of the most grindy systems with rewards that, honestly, dont serve a higher purpose. Anyone remember world of high warlord? atleast that gear was acceptable to use end game pve.) Matchmaking: 3 ( pvp seems farely well balanced to allow the lvl 10 casuals to compete with the lvl 49 casuals, whatever it is degined to appeals to the masses... i get it. Problem is 9 times out of ten its the same 15-18 people matched against eachother on the same teams playilng the same map. It needs work, obviously you did somethig wrong when i'm seeing the same faces over and over.) Overall: 2.5-3 ( its ok for people who want to do the daily quest and do pvp once a day/week casually. There's really no appeal for any competitive players in MMO's anymore because the casual kids want to be able to force choke with a class that wasn't intended to have it and they want pink ponies with poka dots and they should be able to pvp and raid and feel like a pro in an environment that is so watered down an convoluted you cant tell the skilled from the unskilled.) Edited March 24, 2012 by SPF_Coppertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 ok so i've been doing some pvp and i've made some observations. I have played pvp competitively in over 40 games and this is my feedback... do what you want with it. 1) The number one issue i have is commendations, your system is bloated with different types of commendations. All of which have this arbitrary maximum number of 1,000. This cap is the big reason i dont pvp anymore... once i've reached the cap on both why even bother. I was planning on getting battlemaster tokens, but i cant even purchse those until lvl 50, so basically i've wasted many hours of my life. lol...who told you that PvP is playing 1-49 in PvE gear to grind BM and once you hit 50, you have a full set of BM? There is PvP gear progression if you werent aware of it. You hit 50, you get centurian, then upgrade to Champion, then hit valor60 and go to BM. 2) same 16 people playing huttball over and over. you have 3 pvp instances total. People lack a desire to join them because the only good reward is the battlemaster set, which takes 4,000 warzone commendations for one token. which is fine except for the fact that you wont let us save them... First of all, Champion gear is good enough for any current pvp scenario. Did you even bother looking at the difference in stats between Champion and BM? Hec there many Battlemasters who prefer champion gear. Second, BM doesnt ONLY require 4000WZ comms, it also requires Valor60. 3) There is no competitiveness in your pvp. Even World of noobcrack had an arena system. All people do in your pvp is run around smashing the same 2-3 buttons chasing eachothers tails. It lacks depth and challenge. Objective based PvP requires a lot more thinking and skill over arena imo. In an arena, it doesnt take a genious to just gangfest the opposing team's healer and/or squishy. It ends up being which team has the highest burst. 5) pvp gear has no place in the game. always learn from history... there is no incentive to get battlemaster gear if its stuffed with a pvp stat that is only useful in a small pool of pvp areas that have no real reward. PvP gear that is obtained from "warzones or battlegrounds" are intended to be used in higher level competitive environments. Thats why people waste the time to get them. you have no higher level competitive environment, nothing at all. umm 1.2?? So what can we learn from this post? Battlegrounds type maps are meant to appease the casual pvper, your pvp gear has no role in the game and your commendation system punishes the very few people who took the time to grind them. On a scale of 1 - 10 i give the pvp in this game the following ratings difficulty: 1 (its made for the casual masses who like to run around an smash buttons) rewards: 3 ( this is based on the fact that you get a decent xp reward, the commendation system is a joke) rating system: 1 ( you dont have one.) variety: 3 ( who wants to play huttball 37 times in a row, i mean really? outside of that you have 3 total pvp instances and a completely empty pvp planet.) grind: 1 (the pvp is one of the most grindy systems with rewards that, honestly, dont serve a higher purpose. Anyone remember world of high warlord? atleast that gear was acceptable to use end game pve.) Matchmaking: 3 ( pvp seems farely well balanced to allow the lvl 10 casuals to compete with the lvl 49 casuals, whatever it is degined to appeals to the masses... i get it. Problem is 9 times out of ten its the same 15-18 people matched against eachother on the same teams playilng the same map. It needs work, obviously you did somethig wrong when i'm seeing the same faces over and over.) Overall: 2.5-3 ( its ok for people who want to do the daily quest and do pvp once a day/week casually. There's really no appeal for any competitive players in MMO's anymore because the casual kids want to be able to force choke with a class that wasn't intended to have it and they want pink ponies with poka dots and they should be able to pvp and raid and feel like a pro in an environment that is so watered down an convoluted you cant tell the skilled from the unskilled.) and the rest is just babbling...if you think this negatively about the game, why in the hec are you still here? Even if you will be taken seriously (which I know you wont be), it will take a loooong time for Bio to implement what you want. I highly suggest finding another game that better suits your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekaula Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 lol this guy is clueless. Good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Also you should be converting some wz tokens for mercenary tokens so then you can buy champion bags for 200 WZ and 200 Merc tokens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPF_Coppertone Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 lol, classic fanboy reply. You are a great example of the masses that I was referring to. This game is a battlegrounds grind and you refuse to acknowledge it. Slapping a Mercades logo on a Ford doesn't make it a luxury car. Another good waste of the Star Wars name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkopczak Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 TLDNR but judging from responses typical troll anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPF_Coppertone Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 You hit 50, you get centurian, then upgrade to Champion, then hit valor60 and go to BM. right, grind up to BM so that you can grind pvp battlegroudns more, there's such thing as pvp progression as well. This pathetic system never gradautes to anything meaningful. First of all, Champion gear is good enough for any current pvp scenario. I agree, the pvp is so convoluted there is no need to strive for good gear. Objective based PvP requires a lot more thinking and skill over arena imo. In an arena, it doesnt take a genious to just gangfest the opposing team's healer and/or squishy. It ends up being which team has the highest burst. you obviously have never competed on a professional level in any game. There is a thing called a meta, and its always evolving. Even if you will be taken seriously (which I know you wont be), it will take a loooong time for Bio to implement what you want. I highly suggest finding another game that better suits your needs. Its not my problem if Bioware releases blatantly uncomplete games, its theirs. I do plan to find a better game, never hurts to give feedback for the 20% at bioware that do care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolfman Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Slapping a Mercades logo on a Ford doesn't make it a luxury car. Hi OP, I think what you have failed to acknowledge is that Bioware didn't intend to build a Mercedes. Using your analogy (but droping names so nobody points out that Ford do make high end vehicles). Car Manufacturer 1 Builds high end luxury performance cars. They cost a lot to buy own and maintain and appeal to a small market. Car Manufacturer 2 Builds mid range vehicles. They are reasonably priced, affordable to run and maintain and appeal to a wide audience. SWTOR was always intended to be number 2. It is intended to be a game for casuals, not hard core PvPers. So my freind what happened is you bought a Ford and are now complaining to the manufacturers that it's not a Mercedes. How anyone who infers they are a Professional Gamer (i.e. you have been payed by a company to play games competetively) could not have realised that is somewhat beyond me. Anyway good luck with your ongoing hunt for your next game. Regards Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPF_Coppertone Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 i guess i used the wrong analogy.. since about .3% of the pvp base uses pvp on a regular base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 ok so i've been doing some pvp and i've made some observations. I have played pvp competitively in over 40 games and this is my feedback... do what you want with it. 1) The number one issue i have is commendations, your system is bloated with different types of commendations. All of which have this arbitrary maximum number of 1,000. This cap is the big reason i dont pvp anymore... once i've reached the cap on both why even bother. I was planning on getting battlemaster tokens, but i cant even purchse those until lvl 50, so basically i've wasted many hours of my life. fixed in 1.2, you will have ranked and wz comms, all other comms will not be used further... comms cap will be increased to 2000... currently in L1-49, you should buy 1 champ bag, then get 1000/1000 so that when you do hit 50, you will be able to buy 5 more bags right away 2) same 16 people playing huttball over and over. you have 3 pvp instances total. People lack a desire to join them because the only good reward is the battlemaster set, which takes 4,000 warzone commendations for one token. which is fine except for the fact that you wont let us save them... you must be on a small pop server because on mine, i'm still seeing people i've never seen before in my wz's (i'm almost L68 valor)... if you are constantly being grouped with the same group (while single queueing), delay accepting the next wz invite, the same group goes in, but then you can join another group... 3) There is no competitiveness in your pvp. Even World of noobcrack had an arena system. All people do in your pvp is run around smashing the same 2-3 buttons chasing eachothers tails. It lacks depth and challenge. i know this is merely your opinion... but in L1-49, all i did was deathmatch because i didn't really understand the intricacies of strategy for each wz until much later in L50 (i pugged the whole time)... now i know alot of little tips and tricks that help me succeed... 5) pvp gear has no place in the game. always learn from history... there is no incentive to get battlemaster gear if its stuffed with a pvp stat that is only useful in a small pool of pvp areas that have no real reward. PvP gear that is obtained from "warzones or battlegrounds" are intended to be used in higher level competitive environments. Thats why people waste the time to get them. you have no higher level competitive environment, nothing at all. 1.2 everyone will pretty much be equal in terms of gear... ranked wz's will be the attempt at "higher level competitive environment"... and i pvp because i like pvping, that's incentive enough... So what can we learn from this post? Battlegrounds type maps are meant to appease the casual pvper, your pvp gear has no role in the game and your commendation system punishes the very few people who took the time to grind them. On a scale of 1 - 10 i give the pvp in this game the following ratings difficulty: 1 (its made for the casual masses who like to run around an smash buttons) just for curiosity's sake, what is an example of difficult pvp in an mmo? rewards: 3 ( this is based on the fact that you get a decent xp reward, the commendation system is a joke) rating system: 1 ( you dont have one.) variety: 3 ( who wants to play huttball 37 times in a row, i mean really? outside of that you have 3 total pvp instances and a completely empty pvp planet.) i've heard the new 4th wz is a blast to play, and i like huttball! grind: 1 (the pvp is one of the most grindy systems with rewards that, honestly, dont serve a higher purpose. Anyone remember world of high warlord? atleast that gear was acceptable to use end game pve.) Matchmaking: 3 ( pvp seems farely well balanced to allow the lvl 10 casuals to compete with the lvl 49 casuals, whatever it is degined to appeals to the masses... i get it. Problem is 9 times out of ten its the same 15-18 people matched against eachother on the same teams playilng the same map. It needs work, obviously you did somethig wrong when i'm seeing the same faces over and over.) Overall: 2.5-3 ( its ok for people who want to do the daily quest and do pvp once a day/week casually. There's really no appeal for any competitive players in MMO's anymore because the casual kids want to be able to force choke with a class that wasn't intended to have it and they want pink ponies with poka dots and they should be able to pvp and raid and feel like a pro in an environment that is so watered down an convoluted you cant tell the skilled from the unskilled.) in yellow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosestick Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Why is it the people that "pvpd in over 40 games" or "I had a 2k rating" seem toto be the worst players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Why is it the people that "pvpd in over 40 games" or "I had a 2k rating" seem toto be the worst players? Because all they did in 40 games is babble and qq on things they are clearly clueless about. I am not saying we have nothing to complain about in the current or even 1.2 state of PvP. But he was in a galaxy far away with his QQ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 lol, classic fanboy reply. You are a great example of the masses that I was referring to. This game is a battlegrounds grind and you refuse to acknowledge it. Slapping a Mercades logo on a Ford doesn't make it a luxury car. Another good waste of the Star Wars name. First of all, look up my post history and I am far from a fanboy. But complaining about things while being completely clueless about their mechanics is ridiculous. Second, everyone, including Hardcore PvPers, got this game knowing very well that there was never a mention of Arena style PvP. It was a known fact that it would be objective based. Now there were some exaggerations on the world PvP scenarios but that's another issue. Third, Getting the gear is a grind, which is also changing in 1.2. But playing the battlegrounds itself shouldnt be considered a grind. If you do, again...what the hell are you doing here? They are not going to change the entire scope of their PvP content just for you. I am not being condescending really, go find the game that better suits your playstyle. SWTOR is certainly not the ONLY mmo out there. And with your vast experience in over 40 games, I am sure you can find a good fit. Fourth, good thing SWTOR is not a Mercedes (not Mercades). If it was, then its playerbase would be a fraction of what it is. I would say that in the lifetime of both car companies more people bought ONE type of Ford cars (namely Mustangs) than all the Mercedes models combined. Now go take your prosac and take a deep breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhealThar Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Objective based PvP requires a lot more thinking and skill over arena imo. In an arena, it doesnt take a genious to just gangfest the opposing team's healer and/or squishy. It ends up being which team has the highest burst. Arena has far, FAR more competitive aspects to it than anything objective based. It's only a zergfest in the lower brackets. Once you're in duelist range, people actually know how to play and you don't just score kills by spamming buttons and popping all your CDs at once. The biggest difference between a good pvper and a bad one is the bad one is yelling in ops chat "OMG GUIZ ZERG DA HEALER11!!1!!" and they continue to tunnel vision one character which isn't how you win games. You see it so much in wow arena, all the bad players who are stuck in lower brackets will tunnel the healer all game long even though there is a mage free casting cc on their healer and they eventually die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Arena has far, FAR more competitive aspects to it than anything objective based. It's only a zergfest in the lower brackets. Once you're in duelist range, people actually know how to play and you don't just score kills by spamming buttons and popping all your CDs at once. The biggest difference between a good pvper and a bad one is the bad one is yelling in ops chat "OMG GUIZ ZERG DA HEALER11!!1!!" and they continue to tunnel vision one character which isn't how you win games. You see it so much in wow arena, all the bad players who are stuck in lower brackets will tunnel the healer all game long even though there is a mage free casting cc on their healer and they eventually die. How is objective based tunnel vision? How is it that I am constantly in games where the side that had more damage and more heals lost the WZ? Yes there are times when you need to take down a healer, but many other times, it's about running in the right direction with the ball, throwing ahead of your teamate, taking down the puller on the platform instead of going after the ball carrier, sneaking past a defender and capping the objective, defending a door and switching between targets to prevent charge placement, sending decoy attackers so you can try to cap a different turret, and with the new WZ it looks like there will be even more strategies in play. In the arena on the other hand, it's where I see more tunnel vision. It doesnt have the be the healer that's being focused. It's whichever the team decides needs to be focused or eliminated first. What arena games did you play where each player had their idea on how to win? The entire team choose priority kills and follow the plan. It has nothing to do with using 1 button or 10 buttons. It's games that specifically focus on taking out your opponents that are in tunnel vision. I much prefer playing objectives, where a class' damage or heal output doesnt dictate a win or a loss. Furthermore, it becomes a QQ NIGHTMARE trying to balance classes based on Arena fights. It becomes a downward spiral leading to the game being unplayable. There was a thread with a video not too long showing 3v3 and 4v4 arena style. The outcome is Vanguard Vanguard Commando won game after gam. Sorc got destroyed game after game and the whole thread turned into Sorc needed a buff. Seriously? the hell with arenas I say. Edited March 24, 2012 by Agooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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