Hitting stealthers once just to keep them in combat?

[Grubfist]

Tell that to the incoming heal nerf because of all the whining done about it in pvp. Now all the pve healers are getting screwed because of it.

 

Sorry guy, but every, repeat EVERY, mmo to date has changed the game too many times in mostly bad ways because of pvp QQ.

 

No, they nerfed healing because healing was ludicrously powerful. I play a sage healer and a commando healer and there's no hiding it. Any time a healer can sit out in the open and spam-heal with 3 dudes beating on him and NOT die, on a regular basis, you've got a problem.

 

Not to mention that it was impossible to run out of Force as a sage. Hell, I felt bad if I dropped under 50%.

 

Sorry if you weren't the best at healing mechanics and setups, but when you can spam-heal with Deliverence/Dark Infusion in PvE and never run out of force (or even drop below 80%), there's a problem, lol.

 

Positioning, resource management, and reliance on group members should all be factors in healing. Right now, there's very little issue with any of those.

 

The only thing that confuses me is why they didn't nerf Emergency Medpack. But I suppose it's because it's quite situational.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Grubfist

[Bocherel]

Except that hitting people to keep them in combat is working as intended. The mechanic isn't broken at all.

 

You are wrong, feel free to refer to My previous post quoting Goerg zoeller

[byteresistor]

Every mechanic has to have a counter. You can't just expect to escape out of every fight you are about to loose on whim and without any counter. Edited March 24, 2012 by byteresistor

[LoKiei]

You are wrong, feel free to refer to My previous post quoting Goerg zoeller

 

He said last hostile action, he didn't explicitly sat last hostile action on the part of the stealther.

Edited March 24, 2012 by LoKiei

[Psiwolf]

I'm trolling you guys by listing ways to unbalance stealth lol@u

 

Well played OP, well played.

[Grubfist]

You are wrong, feel free to refer to My previous post quoting Goerg zoeller

 

TS is right in a way.

 

The dot stuff is a legitimate mechanics to Break stealth since it should unstealth as the dot tick

 

However hitting once and or landing anything to prevent stealth is a game mechanic EXPLOIT. Goerg Zoeller stated :

 

"Stealth is available 8sec AFTER the last hostile action from the stealther"

 

But those who use that cheap exploit makes the mechanic bugs and we are stuck in combat for 1min or until they die.

 

This issue needs to be addressed asap

 

This one? Firstly, a "quote" needs a source to be taken seriously, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there and assume you didn't pull this quote out your ***.

 

Stealth is available when out of combat. You go out of combat 8 seconds after disengaging from combat fully. Now, a DoT will knock you out of stealth with each tick, but it doesn't prevent you going into stealth in the first place. While it may seem like no difference to you, it can give several buffs to certain stealth classes/specs just for being in stealth for a second. Also, DoTs you put on an enemy are hostile actions, and each tick of theirs will put you back in combat, since it is a hostile move by the stealther.

 

Now, all this said, "in combat" in several games is also going to be related to other people attacking YOU, so it's safe to assume that if you don't completely isolate yourself for 8 seconds, you're going to get put in combat again.

 

I highly doubt your quote is word-for-word, I would like a link from your source, please. I'm sure the idea of the quote is similar, but I feel you may have paraphrased it, so I would like to check the source to be sure.

[Agemnon]

can only speak for myself, but hitting a stealther with a dot is a force of habit from wow.

 

although in this game its a bit hard to single out a stealther, attack him once, and then go back to your main target due to the horrendous targeting system.

 

Nothing wrong with DoTs keeping out of stealth, but we don't have a CoS in this game! Triage is the closest we have and it doesn't wash off mental effects unless you spec deep into the healing tree, and if you do that then your DPS is gimped. Maybe a hybrid healing/scrapper tree would be good if triage washing off mental DoTs wasn't so high.

[Agemnon]

"Now, a DoT will knock you out of stealth with each tick, but it doesn't prevent you going into stealth in the first place. "

 

And you only have about a second to get in a shoot first if you're lucky in that case.

[Scotland]

OP made me lol.

 

trollolololol.

[Agemnon]

keep your poncho on, hitting a stealth to keep them from stealthing without battling them is not an exploit. i called it teamplay, maybe that stealthy was gonna open up on my team's healer. healer disturbed = dead team. maybe he was gonna kill the gunslinger/sniping providing support dps.

 

Then finish the stealther off! It's not that hard since we have no real defensive abilities.

[hulkweazel]

OP looks like a troll post to me.

 

That said, I hope more people read this just to see how easy it is to keep a stealther out of stealth, and how easy it is to deal with stealthers instead of QQing about them. Maybe Bioware will actually finally fix the class, but I guess that's just wishful thinking.

[Grubfist]

"Now, a DoT will knock you out of stealth with each tick, but it doesn't prevent you going into stealth in the first place. "

 

And you only have about a second to get in a shoot first if you're lucky in that case.

 

Yup, and that is a very reasonable window of time. Someone who understands how long a 2-minute cooldown is in PvP would surely understand that 1-second window time for reactions is commonplace in PvP.

 

After all, it's not like you can't do any damage without a back blast or a shoot first, they just help with your burst. You still have several abilities that put out respectable damage out of stealth and facing any direction. You also have a few abilities (yes, they're weaker and not your focus) that can do damage at 30m. Your sabotage probe, your basic attack, your charged burst, etc. A sentinel can't pop cover and finish off a target 20m away, you can.

[Incauta]

This is nonsense.

 

Even though I disagree with the OP: if you have no problem getting back into stealth with your Operative it doesn't mean that you play better than the OP. It only means that your opponents play worse than his.

 

I don't know about that, the person you're responding to might know to stay out of a 30meter perimeter while he waits his 8 sec to leave combat and go stealth...that is a skill, a forethought well executed in order to retrieve his big openers again.

 

I fail to see how attacking an opponent (no matter how you do it) while in a pvp area (warzone no less) could ever be thought of as exploiting. In fact its the whole point to the Qing up to pvp.

 

In my eyes, what I see the OP asking for is the power to put a ticket in on anyone who attacks him while he wants to go stealth again.....how would an enemy player even know that those are his intentions?

 

The only way to achieve what the OP wants is to allow him to make the opener every time before you were allowed to attack them...Which by the way is EXACTLY what stealth was designed for! But the Dev's want YOU to figure out how to get back into a stealth, not make other people subject to your whim's about whether your deciding to go stealth or what have you.

 

 

Just try to remember that this is not WoW and rogues to not exist here, which is what i think has a lot of stealthies all full of spit and vinegar.

[Giondi]

I feel that this is a flagrant exploitation of game mechanics as well as DoTing just as an anti-stealth instead of a HoT mitigation. Here are some suggestions for stealth classes and undoing exploits:

 

...

 

6. An increased cone for behind attacks, since many players walk backwards which is just as fast as stealth speed a spring can be used to run through the player and shoot first then backblast them to get around their exploit.

 

 

Intelligent play is the new exploiting, I guess.

[Ryotknife]

Nothing wrong with DoTs keeping out of stealth, but we don't have a CoS in this game! Triage is the closest we have and it doesn't wash off mental effects unless you spec deep into the healing tree, and if you do that then your DPS is gimped. Maybe a hybrid healing/scrapper tree would be good if triage washing off mental DoTs wasn't so high.

 

to be fair, when rogues got cloak of shadows (clos), in that expansion they went from a burst bot who could kill anyone every 3-5 minutes as sub daggers in vanilla wow (and were useless for the rest of the 3-5 minutes) to a zero burst, medium sustained, highly mobile, and decent defense utility bot in burning crusade wow.

 

you can make comparisons between ops now and how rogues are in wow, but rogues went through many iterations in pvp.

[Grubfist]

Intelligent play is the new exploiting, I guess.

 

That's why jumping over the Voidstar gap and using roots are also "exploiting"

[Kracin]

I have seen and experienced this many times, a person would hit my character then just run off to fight someone else. I feel that this is a flagrant exploitation of game mechanics as well as DoTing just as an anti-stealth instead of a HoT mitigation. Here are some suggestions for stealth classes and undoing exploits:

 

.

 

i play an assassin.. and i don't care if they want to keep me from stealthing or not, its just an inturrupt... if they cant tag you to keep you from going stealth, you can't inturrupt their casting or abilties... fair enough right?

 

 

sheesh

[Bocherel]

He said last hostile action, he didn't explicitly sat last hostile action on the part of the stealther.

 

Im pretty sure he did but i cant find it Im on My phone atm

 

Regardless its still bugged, its supposed to last 8sec, not as long as it is live

[Metalmac]

So you're arguing that you should be allowed to stealth whenever you want to, basically?

 

Trust me, we non-stealth DPS don't like it when you stealth and run away like a you-know-what in the middle of a fight that you're clearly going to lose, so if you don't like it when we tab to you, hit you, and move on, that just makes us even.

 

To me, hitting a stealth class and preventing them from stealthing means preventing them from coming up behind me and surprise attacking me. Why would I NOT want to do that? Why should stealth classes get rewarded if I do that? That makes no sense.

 

So what is the argument against Sawbones going into Stealth to get away. Being the obviously weakest class healer in PVP also means we do not have the Sage ability to wipe all DoTs and speed burst in stealth away. Nor could anyone argue that Sawbones bubble even slightly compares to the Sage Bubble.

 

The point on the post is that this ensures I can NEVER EVER GET AWAY OR STEALTH.

 

But does not apply to the other stealth class Shadow?

Edited March 24, 2012 by Metalmac

[Bocherel]

This one? Firstly, a "quote" needs a source to be taken seriously, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there and assume you didn't pull this quote out your ***.

 

Stealth is available when out of combat. You go out of combat 8 seconds after disengaging from combat fully. Now, a DoT will knock you out of stealth with each tick, but it doesn't prevent you going into stealth in the first place. While it may seem like no difference to you, it can give several buffs to certain stealth classes/specs just for being in stealth for a second. Also, DoTs you put on an enemy are hostile actions, and each tick of theirs will put you back in combat, since it is a hostile move by the stealther.

 

Now, all this said, "in combat" in several games is also going to be related to other people attacking YOU, so it's safe to assume that if you don't completely isolate yourself for 8 seconds, you're going to get put in combat again.

 

I highly doubt your quote is word-for-word, I would like a link from your source, please. I'm sure the idea of the quote is similar, but I feel you may have paraphrased it, so I would like to check the source to be sure.

 

Nope it is from the top of My mind, Im on My phone and couldnt check the quote but i see what you mean and it DOES NOT work that way since the bug prevent us from going stealth, instead we are stuck in combat Until the attacker die or it last several seconds if not minute

 

If it worked as intend it would be fair.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Now I have seen it all. Lol at this entire thread.

[Metalmac]

"Now, a DoT will knock you out of stealth with each tick, but it doesn't prevent you going into stealth in the first place. "

 

And you only have about a second to get in a shoot first if you're lucky in that case.

 

As a Sawbones this is just stupid. I will be in stealth for one second. Really what the hell can I do in one second now that my cool down is now 2 minutes away.

 

I am a Sawbones not another class that instantly wipes all DoTs the second I stealth.

[MorgonKara]

If you are close enough to an enemy to get hit then you are in combat, sorry. Edited March 24, 2012 by MorgonKara

[JonJW]

No matter what class I'm playing or role I'm performing, if I see you in stealth, I'ma hit you with my basic attack and go back to what I was doing.

 

Stealth classes, especially scoundrel/operatives, rely on their opening, so keeping them from using it is similar to interrupting a class that relies on long casts.

 

Do you think it's supposed to be some grand secret that you can't stealth unless in combat? The good players will know the likely reactions to most events and be prepared to counter them. They will know nearly all of your abilities either by fighting your class or playing an alt. Knowledge is power. If you're predictable, you get squashed.

 

As an example, my vanguard has an ability called "Hold the Line"

For 8 seconds, he becomes immune to slows, snares, grapples, pulls, and knockbacks.

Since most people are hilariously predictable, I will walk precariously close to an edge and turn on my Hold The Line. Then I will laugh as I see them and sometimes 1-2 nearby friends all run over and waste their knockbacks trying to shove me off the ledge or into fire/acid, etc.

Had they known anything about my class, they would have known that the red energy cell means I will likely have this ability, and they will know when it's up by the orange circle under my feet for its duration. They would then use their knockbacks in a more careful way and negate my strategy for making them waste it when it won't affect me.

 

PvP is entirely about anticipating enemy responses and countering them. Endlessly.

 

If you're mad you got countered, you're missing the point. Think of it like chess. You do something, they counter, you counter their counter, they counter your counter for their counter, etc. You need to have this mapped out in your head as you engage a target. Stay a few moves ahead. This "few moves ahead" thing will also have branches. If you use an ability and he uses Counter A, you use Follow-Up A, but if he uses Counter B, you use Follow-Up B.

 

Knowledge is everything in PvP. As someone who finds human behavior extremely fascinating, this is what makes PvP so much fun for me.

 

Also, you have an ability that increases your stealth level by like 15. Use it when you need to close on an enemy. Stealth isn't too hard to spot at close range.

 

Not being a ******** in anyway but that was seriously one of the most beautiful things i've read concerning strategy. Very well put when talking about counter and follow-up etc. Cheers sir.

[Grubfist]

So what is the argument against Sawbones going into Stealth to get away. Being the obviously weakest class healer in PVP also means we do not have the Sage ability to wipe all DoTs and speed burst in stealth away. Nor could anyone argue that Sawbones bubble even slightly compares to the Sage Bubble.

 

The point on the post is that this ensures I can NEVER EVER GET AWAY OR STEALTH.

 

But does not apply to the other stealth class Shadow?

 

The sage bubble is incapable of absorbing more than about 4k, and completely ignores all damage mitigation, so it gets eaten up significantly faster by kinetic and energy attacks, as it pretends the target has no armor for the damage is absorbs.

 

Also, sages can't stealth, and they can't purge all DoTs. I'm sure you meant Shadows, and that is because that is their primary tanking cooldown. They are a class that has a tank spec, ops/scoundrels are a class that has a heal spec. As a result, ops can do some decent self-healing, and shadows can do some decent tanking. Not sure what the issue is here. Shadows/Scoundrels are different classes with very different playstyles. Just because they can both stealth doesn't mean they're intended to be identical.