AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 I RARELY save screenshots and I had one with me being 649K damage and 237K protection but I un/reinstalled Fraps since then and no longer have the saved screenshots. I'm still looking for the SS Prestige had of him doing the stats he did. I for one would never want this class to get nerfed but as time progresses more and more people are going to be playing it and more and more people are going to start to learn how to play it correctly and then it's going to be a problem. Even the people that I see that are TERRIBLE at the spec can still put out the numbers and play objectives with the build. I'm trying to make everyone aware of the spec and it's potential and trying to get Infiltration / Balance fixed along with Kinetic's damage brought down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackMinn Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 there are a lot of variables and factors that play into a wz.. taking a screenshot like that arnt proof enough . you can find vanguards / powertechs do 800k+ in damage and good protection. and all of these might have pocket healers / good organized grps . tkae that into account ok? Even if they could do it consistently they do not posses the sheer utility the shadow brings to the table. Again something that warzones dont portray. Take that into account ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Calling a class OP because it can get all around good stats does not make sense at all, besides I am sure I have seen Vanguards/Guardians doing massive damage with the tank tree. I cannot be bothered to find SSs but I know they exist. As a powertech I can say that powertech shield tree is useless for damage. Our DPS comes from our trees, if you don't use them you will be pretty much useless outside of placing guard on a healer, surviveing a little bit longer or running a ball, all of which shadows/sins do better. Face it, shadow/sins need a nerf in their tanking trees damage, no other tanks or class in general come close to comparable to the current abilities they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Once again, you cannot call a class OP because it has potential to do good damage/protection in WZs. Generally people base it off of 1v1 fights, this is an easy way to test the capabilities against other classes. Shadow to me feels balanced, and all other "hybrid" classes in theory should get the same benefit from tank spec with dps gear. Now you are suggesting a class that does on average half the damage of sorcs/other DPS classes, should be nerfed? Just because they balance their lesser DPS with more protection points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaipyr Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 ITT: Guys cockslobbering all over some unknown non-factor on their server. Calls for nerfs to yet another class, but hey if we just keep going round and round nerfing everything eventually we can all enjoy being the same class with the same spec whipping each other with pillows. Hyperbole and ******** claims of made up numbers labeled as "evidence" Great trololo thread. 40+ pages of **** about a complete bs topic. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonohaFlash Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 ITT: Guys cockslobbering all over some unknown non-factor on their server. Calls for nerfs to yet another class, but hey if we just keep going round and round nerfing everything eventually we can all enjoy being the same class with the same spec whipping each other with pillows. Hyperbole and ******** claims of made up numbers labeled as "evidence" Great trololo thread. 40+ pages of **** about a complete bs topic. Bravo. What made up numbers are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Tank spec assassins are overtuned in current group PVP. This imbalance will increase in 1.2 with the reduction of healer-based survivability and the increased need for personal survival cds to break assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Once again, you cannot call a class OP because it has potential to do good damage/protection in WZs. Generally people base it off of 1v1 fights, this is an easy way to test the capabilities against other classes. Shadow to me feels balanced, and all other "hybrid" classes in theory should get the same benefit from tank spec with dps gear. Now you are suggesting a class that does on average half the damage of sorcs/other DPS classes, should be nerfed? Just because they balance their lesser DPS with more protection points? How about the fact I can 3v1 and stay alive for a good 20+ seconds and kill one of the 3 while waiting for my team to back me up. Pair me with 1 healer, I prefer a Trooper, and we can 5v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I RARELY save screenshots and I had one with me being 649K damage and 237K protection but I un/reinstalled Fraps since then and no longer have the saved screenshots. I'm still looking for the SS Prestige had of him doing the stats he did. I for one would never want this class to get nerfed but as time progresses more and more people are going to be playing it and more and more people are going to start to learn how to play it correctly and then it's going to be a problem. Even the people that I see that are TERRIBLE at the spec can still put out the numbers and play objectives with the build. I'm trying to make everyone aware of the spec and it's potential and trying to get Infiltration / Balance fixed along with Kinetic's damage brought down a bit. I agree that it can have some work done to it, this includes Vanguards but they need far from a nerf, just a rebalance of the "hybrid" play style. I disagree that stats from a guy in WZs is enough proof to nerf a class. Many classes can get double the damage a shadow is capable of, shadows make up for the lack of damage (comparative) in the defense. It seems like a good balance to me, other people may not think so. I respect that, and now I have seen your reasons for a nerf call, I respect that too. If BW has to nerf the spec because it is good for rated WZs, then like you said, the other specs need a buff. EDIT: in regards to your above post, they were likely undergeared. I have seen marauders take on 3 and still kill 1. It is about using the utility correctly and getting the right opponents. Edited March 27, 2012 by HyperThomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathelia Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 How about the fact I can 3v1 and stay alive for a good 20+ seconds and kill one of the 3 while waiting for my team to back me up. Pair me with 1 healer, I prefer a Trooper, and we can 5v2. if that is the case then they are really bad and outgeared.. that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 if that is the case then they are really bad and outgeared.. that's all Says the guy who beat "The Best Shadow On The Server" as an Arsenal spec BH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Doing 700K just means you purposely throw your offensive round in Voidstar because you can only do about 500K per round but the round you win should have close to 0 damage done if you're actually, well, winning. No doubt Darkness is overpowered but I find it funny a guy claim to be able to win 2on5, when Darkness spec is so prevalent that you'd probably face at least 2 guys with identical spec in that 2on5. I guess it's so overpowered you can defeat 2 guys with the same specs as you by yourself. I mean of course you actually can win 2on5 if they're all the bad classes, but there are a lot of Marauders and other Darkness Assassins out there. Any two of those guys will give you a tough fight by the virtue that you're pretty much fighting someone with nearly (and sometimes identical) DPS/survivality, let alone 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonohaFlash Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 well actually by me. posting a screen doesn't show every factor that played in that wz. the details are pretty unspecific , who did they play against,were they organized,did he have healers on him, etc. maybe it sounded like it was a personal attack but what i ment is that i cant take anything serious without knowing the details. That's why I linked his stream in a post after. He plays in organized groups, and the healers are in fact, not always on him. Here, i'll post it again. http://www.twitch.tv/zap55/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Doing 700K just means you purposely throw your offensive round in Voidstar because you can only do about 500K per round but the round you win should have close to 0 damage done if you're actually, well, winning. No doubt Darkness is overpowered but I find it funny a guy claim to be able to win 2on5, when Darkness spec is so prevalent that you'd probably face at least 2 guys with identical spec in that 2on5. I guess it's so overpowered you can defeat 2 guys with the same specs as you by yourself. I mean of course you actually can win 2on5 if they're all the bad classes, but there are a lot of Marauders and other Darkness Assassins out there. Any two of those guys will give you a tough fight by the virtue that you're pretty much fighting someone with nearly (and sometimes identical) DPS/survivality, let alone 5. Yes I can actually, I've done it before. But like I've said, people don't know how to play this spec yet and once they do it's going to be a problem for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathelia Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Says the guy who beat "The Best Shadow On The Server" as an Arsenal spec BH. uhm your point? he is in full bm , spec kinetic , and it was a 1vs1 ... and because he lost he is bad? Oo but your point was? clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 uhm your point? he is in full bm , spec kinetic , and it was a 1vs1 ... and because he lost he is bad? Oo but your point was? clarify Yes, if you lose to a Tracer/Grav class 1v1 then you are bad. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackMinn Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 well actually by me. posting a screen doesn't show every factor that played in that wz. the details are pretty unspecific , who did they play against,were they organized,did he have healers on him, etc. maybe it sounded like it was a personal attack but what i ment is that i cant take anything serious without knowing the details. Alright and I am trying to make a point of what you are saying. The very fact that numbers do not portray the whole picture is what makes the assassin/shadow OP. There are only 2 classes in this game that can utilize stealth to play for objectives, one is the operative the other is the assassin. The functionality of stealth is quite substantial when you consider how objectives work. Stealth alone is capable of preventing a cap in voidstar long enough for the doors to open for your team and all your mates to come out. Similarly stealth is capable of stalling a node in alderaan long enough for help to come. The purpose of stealth is quite substantial and every single team in rated game play will need one. Its not even worth disputing that in the current state operatives dont compete with assassins with regards to mdps filling out the stealth requirement. In fact in their current state, the best rated set ups would include multiple assassins. Not only is stealth such a high utility and practically neccessary for any form of objective gameplay, the assassin is then given the combat sprint. On top of this they are able to have a force resist skill which allows immunity to certain types of CC at crutch moments "force choke and force push to name a few". This is all ofc coupled with high utility of stuns, knock down + damage buff for allies and slows. Now all this utility if also paired with the high damage numbers you see in what is described as a tank spec. So to boot, these assassins are difficult to kill as well. Along with providing self heal during clutch moments. If people are failing to see how giving EVERY TOOL in the game to ONE class is a bit OP I dont know what to say. But atm the assassin/shadow is the jack of all trades, and it can literally do every single thing as good as the best class in that field. In fact if I could have my perfect rated team I would have minimum 3+ assassins in them for this sole reason. Id never lose a single objective in either of the warzones + they compete with the damage, protection and heals of every other profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yes I can actually, I've done it before. But like I've said, people don't know how to play this spec yet and once they do it's going to be a problem for all. Yeah it's easy to do if you suck and fail to actually win the game. On defense the enemy can be considered having infinite HPs assuming they didn't give up. You can chain kill the guys who respawn as a defender and it's basically like a training dummy. Defending 7.5 minutes without dying gets you reliably in the 500K range. Now when it's your turn to attack, assuming your team doesn't suck, you no longer have the luxury of infinite HPs to build your DPS numbers. If your team is actually good at killing people, the defender will get locked before their spawn point and at this point it is absolutely impossible to get more DPS done because you've no targets to kill. I'm sorry our teams don't suck enough to purposely give the enemy a false sense of hope. We prefer to just send all the enemy back to their bind while doing minuscule DPS (compared to letting them live on purpose to pad more DPS numbers) and win the game in 4 minutes. It takes 3 minutes to just run + bombing time, so a 4 minute win has maybe 1 minute of fighting and of course the numbers look a lot worse than a 0-0 where you spent 7.5 minutes fighting each round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ok if we are calling classes OP because of WZ diversity here is one for you, Vanguard Tank 716k damage as tank spec, with 80k+ protection, 0 deaths. http://postimage.org/image/tdna53kvr/full/ As you can see it is not only shadows, that can do massive damage with the survivability and protection points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathelia Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yes, if you lose to a Tracer/Grav class 1v1 then you are bad. Period. you're so up on you high horse it's sickening .. from watching your video you don't impress me at all .. there's probably tons of bh and other classes that would faceroll you . and you almost everytime need to go co-op .. that says enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolmea Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Why wont you guys just stop feeding the OP. The thread is self continuous because of this, even if he is the only one saying that Assassins are OP. Stop spamming a useless post by a bored out at work user... Edited March 27, 2012 by Koolmea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexlo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ok if we are calling classes OP because of WZ diversity here is one for you, Vanguard Tank 716k damage as tank spec, with 80k+ protection, 0 deaths. http://postimage.org/image/tdna53kvr/full/ As you can see it is not only shadows, that can do massive damage with the survivability and protection points. Your damage was padded by the three dealers on the other team (with 400k+ Healing a piece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperThomas Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 More WZ Stats from Vanguards. http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/6hq89xl3/Screenshot_20120127_15_10_14_969520.jpg Not the best but still great. http://postimage.org/image/wmcsycajr/ Same as above. http://imageshack.us/f/210/screenshot2012030919102.jpg/ Basically 300k protection with 450k damage. http://postimage.org/image/tdna53kvr/full/ My favourite, 700k+ damage with 80k+ protection. http://postimage.org/image/uk3eptdn9/full/ 16 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ok if we are calling classes OP because of WZ diversity here is one for you, Vanguard Tank 716k damage as tank spec, with 80k+ protection, 0 deaths. http://postimage.org/image/tdna53kvr/full/ As you can see it is not only shadows, that can do massive damage with the survivability and protection points. And guess what, that class got nerfed in 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoKiei Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 you're so up on you high horse it's sickening .. from watching your video you don't impress me at all .. there's probably tons of bh and other classes that would faceroll you . and you almost everytime need to go co-op .. that says enough. Except what he is saying is true. There is no way a BH is going to beat a good shadow/sin tank. It is pretty apperent that the people posting here haven't faced a good sin/shadow tank yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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