Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Lent_San]

Future expansion or future patch?

 

Expansion. I guess there's too much to add so a patch wouldn't be sufficient.

[natashina]

Future expansion or future patch?

 

Future patch. I've done the same, as well as looked around the dev statements for answers. It will not be "pay for gay"(i.e an expansion), so no need to worry about that.

 

Edited April 13, 2012 by natashina

[Captain_Zone]

Future patch. I've done the same, as well as looked around the dev statements for answers. It will not be "pay for gay"(i.e an expansion), so no need to worry about that.

 

I believe TOR is doing the free expansion thing similar to City of Heroes and EVE Online. HUGE patches/updates that change and expand the game the way a paid boxed expansion would.

 

At least I HOPE so! Honestly, a paid boxed expansion would be a HUGE step backwards, imo.

[natashina]

I believe TOR is doing the free expansion thing similar to City of Heroes and EVE Online. HUGE patches/updates that change and expand the game the way a paid boxed expansion would.

 

At least I HOPE so! Honestly, a paid boxed expansion would be a HUGE step backwards, imo.

 

Yes, and this is something I'm going to try go into more with the Q&A I'm building. Oftentimes players can get, "future content release," confused with, "expansion." Extension is not the same as expansion. And I agree about a paid boxed expansion, especially with content like this. It would not only be a step backward, but also a horrid business move to make SGRs only available by paying for it.

 

**Goes back to lurking for Q&A info.**

Edited April 13, 2012 by natashina

[Captain_Zone]

Yes, and this is something I'm going to try go into more with the Q&A I'm building. Oftentimes players can get, "future content release," confused with, "expansion." Extension is not the same as expansion. And I agree about a paid boxed expansion, especially with content like this. It would not only be a step backward, but also a horrid business move to make SGRs only available by paying for it.

 

**Goes back to lurking for Q&A info.**

 

Yep. I pay 15 a month already. Shouldn't have to buy a new box just so my female Warrior can get it on with that smoothie Vette.

 

EDIT: Or Psycho DS Jaesa, for that matter.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[Lent_San]

Yeah, maybe I got Extension and Expansion confused, but wouldn't you wanna buy expansions anyway, if they brought a new level cap and lots of new stuff on top? Don't get me wrong, I'd like SGRA to come with a patch, but other than that I'd still buy expansions for the overall gaming experience. Edited April 13, 2012 by Lent_San

[Lunnicus]

I am not a member of the LGBT community but I do support them and show consideration as my sister and some close friends are. I say this so no one takes my statements in the wrong light.

 

I believe that the reason that Same-Gender [Flirt] is not included is the controversy associated, I don't think it is an oversight as how could anyone overlook such a large demographic of society? Especially when romance was obviously a subject for the Dev teams. I think it has more to do with the following;

 

1. The controversy of "getting it wrong" or "crossing a line" and offending LGBT players.

 

2. The alienation of the extremists of various organizations, religions and countries.

 

3. The political issues associated with anyone who associates themselves with LGBT ideas.

 

I actually do marketing work with a Realtor that specifically caters to LGBT clientele to aid them in finding homes in non-hate regions. I deal with these pitfalls for her daily and as a single realtor they are real issues, to think about what the corporate giants would be targeted with is mind boggling. I personally think they are just trying to avoid sensational subjects especially in the turbid waters of today's legislature.

[Lent_San]

Well, I think you're wrong since Bioware has lots of SG romances in most of their games and they already confirmed those will be added to the game. What possible fight with EA they might have had over it behind closed curtains, I don't really care, as long as the end result is satisfactory. Edited April 13, 2012 by Lent_San

[natashina]

I am not a member of the LGBT community but I do support them and show consideration as my sister and some close friends are. I say this so no one takes my statements in the wrong light.

 

I believe that the reason that Same-Gender [Flirt] is not included is the controversy associated, I don't think it is an oversight as how could anyone overlook such a large demographic of society? Especially when romance was obviously a subject for the Dev teams. I think it has more to do with the following;

 

1. The controversy of "getting it wrong" or "crossing a line" and offending LGBT players.

 

2. The alienation of the extremists of various organizations, religions and countries.

 

3. The political issues associated with anyone who associates themselves with LGBT ideas.

 

I actually do marketing work with a Realtor that specifically caters to LGBT clientele to aid them in finding homes in non-hate regions. I deal with these pitfalls for her daily and as a single realtor they are real issues, to think about what the corporate giants would be targeted with is mind boggling. I personally think they are just trying to avoid sensational subjects especially in the turbid waters of today's legislature.

 

We have quotes that back up that SGRs are going forward with a whole story update later this year. This will include SGR, and(from the sounds of it), other expanded story arcs as well.

 

***I edited my post shortly after reading the point about SGRs in the Sims.

 

 

Q: Any update on same gender romance?

 

 

Daniel Erickson: It is coming and it is coming with story updates. It is something that depends on the writers and we want to do right, and writers have a long lead time. We did not want to just change all the dialogue for the other gender. That is not writing, that is not story telling. This was cut originally because of budget and time issues. We have designs, we know what romance options we want to put in for this. It is coming when full story comes, and full story is coming this year. We are still on track.

Edited April 14, 2012 by natashina

[Zandilar]

I am not a member of the LGBT community but I do support them and show consideration as my sister and some close friends are. I say this so no one takes my statements in the wrong light.

 

I believe that the reason that Same-Gender [Flirt] is not included is the controversy associated, I don't think it is an oversight as how could anyone overlook such a large demographic of society? Especially when romance was obviously a subject for the Dev teams. I think it has more to do with the following;

 

1. The controversy of "getting it wrong" or "crossing a line" and offending LGBT players.

 

2. The alienation of the extremists of various organizations, religions and countries.

 

3. The political issues associated with anyone who associates themselves with LGBT ideas.

 

I actually do marketing work with a Realtor that specifically caters to LGBT clientele to aid them in finding homes in non-hate regions. I deal with these pitfalls for her daily and as a single realtor they are real issues, to think about what the corporate giants would be targeted with is mind boggling. I personally think they are just trying to avoid sensational subjects especially in the turbid waters of today's legislature.

 

Just so you don't take this the wrong way, I'm not offended by your opinion in any way shape or form. However, I think you would have been better served at least reading the first page of posts on this thread before posting, as most of your points are addressed in one way or another.

 

In short - the OFFICIAL LINE from Bioware is that they planned Same Gender Romance Arcs (SGRAs) prior to launch, but time and money constraints prevented them from including them (among other game features, so they weren't really singled out). They are still planning for SGRA, and have announced (at the Guild Summit) that they will arrive in game sometime this year.

 

Bioware (and EA) have had same gender relationships in their games for quite some time*, this "controversy" that you write about has not stopped either company from being inclusive when it comes to homosexual relationships. In any event, they haven't even managed to avoid controversy without SGRAs in game. There are a couple of fundamentalist groups boycotting EA even as we speak. But this is hardly new, people have boycotted EA and Bioware before because of their penchant for putting homosexual relationships in their games, just look at the storm in a teacup there was over "Gay Shepard", and it hasn't stopped them.

 

(* Starting with the original Knights of the Old Republic in 2003 for Bioware, with the companion Juhani, who would only romance female Revans, and in the Sims, first released in 2000 for EA, Sims have always been bisexual.)

[natashina]

Zandilar was right, so I edited my post to match. I sometimes forget about The Sims. I haven't played it much in the last 10 yrs, so I'm sorry I forgot to include this. My bad. I will make sure to add that point about The Sims in the Q&A post project Jenovan and I are working on. Edited April 14, 2012 by natashina

[MusedMoose]

Seems EA are lying all over press releases about this because they have been claiming SGR's are in the recent patch so getting support from known celebs.

Still waiting for a source on your claim. I haven't seen a single thing about this from my usual gaming news websites.

 

Yeah, maybe I got Extension and Expansion confused, but wouldn't you wanna buy expansions anyway, if they brought a new level cap and lots of new stuff on top? Don't get me wrong, I'd like SGRA to come with a patch, but other than that I'd still buy expansions for the overall gaming experience.

I think the confusion here - which tends to persist - is the term "future expansion content" was used when someone from BioWare first talked about when SGRs would be added. Too many people latched onto the word 'expansion' and assumed 'expansion pack', not realizing that "future expansion content" pretty much means anything that adds new content to the game. Besides, we've been told that SGRs will be coming with new story content this year, and less than a year is far, far too short of a time for a game like this to have an expansion pack like other MMOs have.

 

I'd also like to think that BioWare is aware of how having to pay extra to get SGR content would be perceived, and would not like to deal with that controversy. I don't think anyone's against paying for a full expansion that raises the level cap and provides tons of new content, though.

[Zandilar]

Probably not really on topic enough for this thread, but I was just wandering through FF.net, and noticed that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of SWTOR slash.

 

I'd have thought this game was rich for that kind of thing, especially considering that SGRA aren't in the game yet.

[Silthir]

Probably not really on topic enough for this thread, but I was just wandering through FF.net, and noticed that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of SWTOR slash.

 

I'd have thought this game was rich for that kind of thing, especially considering that SGRA aren't in the game yet.

 

I was writing one and I was gonna release it all at once on FF.net, but no one seemed to like it (i say that because i've only literately had like... 3 people review it... that includes here and another star wars website)... I have part of it posted here... but I quit writing it...

[Lurkz]

Probably not really on topic enough for this thread, but I was just wandering through FF.net, and noticed that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of SWTOR slash.

 

I'd have thought this game was rich for that kind of thing, especially considering that SGRA aren't in the game yet.

 

Yeah, but unless you're writing about NPCs only, not many people are going to read it since no one but you really has a vested interest in your own characters and companions. It's possible there's quite a bit more written then actually posted.

[MusedMoose]

Yeah, but unless you're writing about NPCs only, not many people are going to read it since no one but you really has a vested interest in your own characters and companions. It's possible there's quite a bit more written then actually posted.

Yeah, that's probably true. I doubt there'd be a whole lot of interest in stories that are basically "My [class] and [companion] [sexual act]". I think everyone sees their PC as different from others of the same class, so reading someone else's PC/Companion story might seem strange.

 

Now, stories about different classes' companions interacting? That sounds interesting. I don't know all the companions very well, but I get the feeling Kira, Mako, Risha, and Vette would have the greatest girls' night out ever. Especially if they dragged Dorne along and got her drunk early. And it easily segues into SGR territory when you figure who wakes up in whose bed and how they got there.

 

That, and I would read a long damn story that's nothing but Aric and Pierce swapping war stories, because I think they'd actually get along. As long as they were both unarmed.

 

Also: just started playing a Sith Inquisitor again this weekend due to guild stuff. Is there any point wherein the SI gets to flirt with Lord Zash? I ask because as far as I know, BW hasn't said anything about same-gender flirts being added along with SGRs, and my female twi'lek SI is already wondering just what sort of master-apprentice relationship Lord Zash wants. Freaks me out a little, but if I know anything about RPing, it's to go with what the character you're playing wants.

[Captain_Zone]

Also: just started playing a Sith Inquisitor again this weekend due to guild stuff. Is there any point wherein the SI gets to flirt with Lord Zash? I ask because as far as I know, BW hasn't said anything about same-gender flirts being added along with SGRs, and my female twi'lek SI is already wondering just what sort of master-apprentice relationship Lord Zash wants. Freaks me out a little, but if I know anything about RPing, it's to go with what the character you're playing wants.

 

I WISH there was. At least some harmless flirting that doesn't go anywhere, but would still be fun. Zash is awesome, and in spite of what happens to her at the end of chapter 1, I was kinda hoping to romance her a bit. She won't even give the male Inquisitor any play.

[natashina]

**delurks briefly***

 

I don't know if the flirt option is available with Zash. However, I finished Chapter 1 on Natashina, and all I can say is that you will be happy that she won't give you any play. Trust me.

Edited April 16, 2012 by natashina

[Captain_Zone]

**delurks briefly***

 

I finished Chapter 1 on Natashina, and all I can say is that you will be happy that she won't give you any play. Trust me.

 

Oh, I know.

I've seen her after she goes all "Crypt Keeper", but we still need a mission to get her OUT of Khem and into a hot young female body so we can romance her.

 

[natashina]

Oh, I know.

I've seen her after she goes all "Crypt Keeper", but we still need a mission to get her OUT of Khem and into a hot young female body so we can romance her.

 

It's pretty bad when she makes Emperor Palatine look healthy. Especially those eyes. Yeesh.

 

 

The Q&A will be written by me tomorrow night after I have a chance to see what Jenovan might have cooked up. You guys have been a huge help! Hopefully this will cut down on some of the questions we have, or at least give us a point of reference.

[Zandilar]

Yeah, but unless you're writing about NPCs only, not many people are going to read it since no one but you really has a vested interest in your own characters and companions. It's possible there's quite a bit more written then actually posted.

 

Well, the fact that Shepard is my character hasn't stopped me from reading and enjoying ME fan fiction about Shepards who aren't mine. I honestly don't think it's a problem. In fact, some of the appeal for me as a reader is the different shades of Shepard that people have. (I don't mind Renegade Earthborn/Ruthless Infiltrator Shepards if they're written well, despite the fact that my (main) Shepard is Paragon Spacer/War Hero Vanguard.)

 

See, our characters in SWTOR aren't exactly ours, because we're given a limited number of choices in what our characters can say, and how they say it. They're about as much ours as Shepard is. Any differences are nuances we give them ourselves, plus different combos of predetermined voice overs. The stories all go the same way... My Agent had to do the same missions as every other Agent, with only slight variations in outcomes (depending on alignment), but still following the same story path to the same eventual end. Depressing, but there you are - the storyline in SWTOR is pretty linear.

 

Yeah, that's probably true. I doubt there'd be a whole lot of interest in stories that are basically "My [class] and [companion] [sexual act]". I think everyone sees their PC as different from others of the same class, so reading someone else's PC/Companion story might seem strange.

 

As a sometime writer of fan fiction, I object to that description. Yes, there are plenty of poorly written stories (including "erotica of a dubious nature"), but there are also decently written romance and/or erotica stories too. IMHO "My [class] and [companion] [sexual act]" would be a description of the poorly written variety (though there are decently written stories that fit your description too - seen those mostly in kink memes).

 

I guess these two reactions kind of answer my question. *sigh* If I wasn't so busy with Law school...

 

Also: just started playing a Sith Inquisitor again this weekend due to guild stuff. Is there any point wherein the SI gets to flirt with Lord Zash? I ask because as far as I know, BW hasn't said anything about same-gender flirts being added along with SGRs, and my female twi'lek SI is already wondering just what sort of master-apprentice relationship Lord Zash wants. Freaks me out a little, but if I know anything about RPing, it's to go with what the character you're playing wants.

 

Not that I ever encountered with my SI, who was half in love with her, but I never got more than about a third/quarter of the way through chapter 1 with her.

[MusedMoose]

Yeah, that's probably true. I doubt there'd be a whole lot of interest in stories that are basically "My [class] and [companion] [sexual act]". I think everyone sees their PC as different from others of the same class, so reading someone else's PC/Companion story might seem strange.

As a sometime writer of fan fiction, I object to that description. Yes, there are plenty of poorly written stories (including "erotica of a dubious nature"), but there are also decently written romance and/or erotica stories too. IMHO "My [class] and [companion] [sexual act]" would be a description of the poorly written variety (though there are decently written stories that fit your description too - seen those mostly in kink memes).

I said nothing about it being poorly written. But yeah, my summary was intended to be less-than-great, as I've seen more than a few summaries like that and I generally avoid those stories. I've also written quite a bit of fanfic myself (even one that could be called "erotica of a dubious nature" which I still think is one of my best stories), so... hrm. I apologize, as I can now see that what I was trying to say really came out wrong. Let me try again:

 

See, our characters in SWTOR aren't exactly ours, because we're given a limited number of choices in what our characters can say, and how they say it. They're about as much ours as Shepard is. Any differences are nuances we give them ourselves, plus different combos of predetermined voice overs. The stories all go the same way... My Agent had to do the same missions as every other Agent, with only slight variations in outcomes (depending on alignment), but still following the same story path to the same eventual end. Depressing, but there you are - the storyline in SWTOR is pretty linear.

True, but everyone is going to see their character in a different way, even if they go through the same stuff. For example, in the early Jedi Knight missions, the JK has the option of attacking people in the middle of a conversation or trying to talk them out of violence. Someone playing their JK might choose the attack option because they're playing a DS Jedi, while I personally chose it because I was playing my JK as awkward and slightly aggressive because of her own issues. So while the stories might be basically the same, people are going to give their characters reasons for doing what they do that might not align with someone else's reasons. Hence why I think "my character" fanfic might not be too popular.

 

To attempt to wrench this back on-topic, I'll say that this can really come up when SGRs come into play, as people playing the same class could easily consider their characters of varying sexualities - a "My male BH and Mako" story might have little attraction for someone playing a female BH who's romancing Mako.

[Lent_San]

You know, I would write a mShepard x Kaidan fanfic for instance *points at signature* but then again I want it IN the game, not elsewhere. Glad they added the option to ME3, even if I haven't played it yet.

 

As far as fanfiction goes, I prefer writing slash, because, like someone said before, I can write what I imagine my char to be like and it's not necessarily compatible with other people's imaginations.

 

As far as SWTOR goes though, I haven't really delved deep into romances yet, a) because SG romances are missing and b) I'm not LV 50 yet. I think I'll do a lot more RP once I get to that stage.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lent_San

[Innocentone]

Would be nice if we knew what patch sgra would be added in.

[vanyelsf]

Would be nice if we knew what patch sgra would be added in.

 

I'm going to be extremely long winded, but I hope you all will listen and say if your feelings are similar...

 

I started playing bioware games with Baldur’s Gate. I remember when I started playing Baldur’s Gate 2 and discovered the romances, I died so happy. I chose Aerie and loved the sweetness involved in the romance. I thought to myself, this is more than an RPG this is fantasy escape and immersion!

 

When I started in on the Dragon Age games and had the chance to romance Zevran, my gaming world was compete. I can’t tell you how many times I went through that game loving the ability to actually have a gay character in my personal game. I truly was able to fully enjoy and submerge myself in my character, not to mention how much better I liked it after I downloaded the Allistair mods…

 

You guys have always created games with strong story and fun elements, and I have to say that I have always come away from playing your games happy.

 

That’s where this changes… In March when you guys released the info for what was planned for the legacy patch I danced. Since the first day the game came out I wanted 2 things… to be a Chiss Jedi and to have SGR in the game. So since you’d released this info about how playing a Chiss would be possible it made me start working and planning out what I had to do to prepare for it. For me at least, that’s why getting even alittle more information from the designers and story editors; for the SGR content is so important… I like to be prepared. Even just knowing which companions are being worked on would help me know what I need for this to be possible for me. Don’t get me wrong, I love playing my toons, but as an example if Torian Cadera is planned, I’d wait on my bounty hunter leveling until I can completely submerge myself into enjoying the interaction between the characters.

 

You guys have said a lot in recent months, its coming. That makes me extremely happy. I’d just like that little extra step so I can plan accordingly and play my other characters until I have the content I want with the characters I’d like to play…

Thanks for hearing me out!