Is Vanguard a good counter to Marauder?

[Cain-Highwind]

Marrauder/Sentinell.... really, it's piece of cake for a good sniper.

[DarthPunitor]

I recently went up head to head against a vanguard on my marauder in a voidstar match. We were both full health and completely isolated (everyone else had already moved through the doors). None of his abilities were on cd (to the best of my knowledge) and neither were mine. He was level 45 or 47 and i was 38 (so yes this was in the lower bracket, but the buff to 49 made it pretty even i think, despite him maybe having a few more abilities).

 

Let me first say that I am IN NO WAY a good player. Im a casual pvp'er on a casual pve server.

 

I opened the fight with a force charge and immediately entered my rotation, putting up buffs and saber ward (no expertise adrenal, however). The vanguard put up some kind of red shield that was very difficult to do damage through. I went through my entire rotation atleast twice. I think i also managed to get a dot on him and interrupted him somewhere.

 

I was nearing very low health, and he still had atleast a third of his hp left. The only thing that saved me was force camoflauge, which allowed me to stealth out and get to the nearby health buff. When i reopened the engagement it was still close (i attribute this to the fact that most of my buffs were still on cd and i want to say that he popped a medpac somewhere).

[Hethroin]

I recently went up head to head against a vanguard on my marauder in a voidstar match. We were both full health and completely isolated (everyone else had already moved through the doors). None of his abilities were on cd (to the best of my knowledge) and neither were mine. He was level 45 or 47 and i was 38 (so yes this was in the lower bracket, but the buff to 49 made it pretty even i think, despite him maybe having a few more abilities).

 

Let me first say that I am IN NO WAY a good player. Im a casual pvp'er on a casual pve server.

 

I opened the fight with a force charge and immediately entered my rotation, putting up buffs and saber ward (no expertise adrenal, however). The vanguard put up some kind of red shield that was very difficult to do damage through. I went through my entire rotation atleast twice. I think i also managed to get a dot on him and interrupted him somewhere.

 

I was nearing very low health, and he still had atleast a third of his hp left. The only thing that saved me was force camoflauge, which allowed me to stealth out and get to the nearby health buff. When i reopened the engagement it was still close (i attribute this to the fact that most of my buffs were still on cd and i want to say that he popped a medpac somewhere).

 

This stops being the case shortly after you get 50. You gain more than the vanguard from 38 to 50. Also the vanguard in you scenario is nearly done with his spec only missing a couple damage buff points from secondary trees, hard to compete with a full spec at low levels. You are supposed to have the upper hand in a straight 1v1, if he jumped you and had more time to DPS while you react he should be winning.

[bglodt]

Ok before I go on, I'm not calling anyone a liar.

 

I have read a few people saying that when they fight a mara/sent on their vanguard its a 50/50 chance to win. I wholeheartedly disagree, no matter your spec. Let me preface this with I am not saying they are OP or we are underpowered, just that this class seems to be a hard counter to EVERY vanguard spec. For some background I have played both Full Assault spec (with and without plasma) and the iron fist spec (with my own minor tweeks). Of all the PvPers on my server (kellers void) I am probably in the top 20% including imperial and republic players, and have been told I am one of the top 5-10 vanguards on the server. That said I am not on a PVP server and likely if i was, I'd be in the top 40% vs 20%. I have full BM/Rakata mix (save for champion off-hand).

 

Now that those points are out of the way, the two classes/ACs i absolutely cannot kill 1v1 unless the stars align, are full infiltration spec Shadow/Assassins and properly specced mara/Sents. Now.... overally I tend to be about 50% win rate against them BUT thats including players that I am just clearly better than AND better geared than. When i fight those with similar gear and similar ability (I'm including those in the top 25% as similar ability) I lose, nearly every time. I do kill them dont get me wrong.... but not if its 1v1. That doesnt bother me though, the game is a team game, and there are plenty of classes i just destroy like sorcs, arsenal/Gunnery toons, and nearly all ops/smugglers (except a few played by very good players).

 

As assault spec, my burst is good, but not enough to burn them down before they pop cool downs, and once they are on me, i dont have the defense or surviviability to survive long enough to win or wait them out. Its just fact. Now if i get a bunch of lucky procs and crits, maybe... very rarely.

 

As Iron fist, i have more survivability, but not much, and I dont have the burst to get them down. I have great sustained, but not enough to kill them before they burst me.

 

Vanguards are NOT the class to kill marauders sentinels. My brother is an infiltration shadow... he can take them. He just vanishes when they pop some of their cooldowns, waits it out and goes back, but even then its not a guarantee and more like a 50/50 proposition. They are a great class when played by great players. One of the hardest to defeat, hands down. NO i dont want to nerf them. Yes they can die. When i see the good ones in a warzone, i make it my job to always keep taunt up on them to help my team, and I use my CC when the taunts are down to decrease their output. They get a priority, just below healers in my book, because they just wreck people, and just above snipers, missile shooters, and gravity blasters who sit on the edge and also wreck stuff when left alone.

 

 

Do I feel useless against them? nah. I just play differently against them, and dont get mad when i lose to a good one. Just like i hope some of the other classes that i do dominate dont get mad when i beat them.

 

This class shines in the hands of great players... in the hands of not so great players... not so much. If you are 50/50 vs them then i believe you are in the same boat I am, including those players that are not so good. I dont honestly believe that any vanguard, playing against an equally skilled and geared mara/sent wins 50% of the time. If you can, and you do, I would argue that you are not "equally" skilled, you are more skilled than that player. And thats fine, but you are probably the top 1% of the pvp population, and good on you. I' m jealous! for most people.... even most good people... in the top 20%, a 1v1 with them is almost surely a loss. I'm not saying give up and /sit or /dance, just that you will likely lose.... hopefully you burned them enough and made them use enough cooldowns that someone else can come along and finish the job for you!

[Hethroin]

I'm sure you meant Darkness Assassins or Kinetic Shadow, the Infiltration/Deception variety just blow up too fast.

[EugeneYap]

honestly a good marauder has the tools to kill every other class with ease in a 1v1 situation. Your best bet when you find a marauder is go find a friend then its a pretty even fight. Its not that marauders are OP its just they have the tools to fight anyone regardless of AC simply because they have double the tools of everyone else. The drawback is you need double the skill to play one on that level.

 

 

TL;DR - No-one is a counter to a geared skill Marauder/Sentinel.

 

Dear bioware

please nerf rock, paper is fine.

 

Yours sincerely

Scissors

[EugeneYap]

I want to reroll my commando and looking for a class that will counter Marauders which it seems there are a zillion on my server.

 

How does Vanguard do Vs equally geared/skilled Marauder? Which spec would be best Vs Marauders?

 

Thanks

 

Vanguard require less cap skill then mara, you should be able to steam roll a mara with eases

[Hizoka]

Vanguard require less cap skill then mara, you should be able to steam roll a mara with eases

 

dumb logic is dumb

[Maellstrom]

maras and sents are stupid easy to kill for several classes. If you have not seen it yet, watch for an all ranged / heal imp setup that has stun traits like some others mentioned, against Sents its easy mode. When you are stunned and do no damage and cant click cool downs you are dead before you know it. they are the most Squishy classes in the game if you play against them right.

[Hizoka]

maras and sents are stupid easy to kill for several classes. If you have not seen it yet, watch for an all ranged / heal imp setup that has stun traits like some others mentioned, against Sents its easy mode. When you are stunned and do no damage and cant click cool downs you are dead before you know it. they are the most Squishy classes in the game if you play against them right.

 

sentinels/maras are either really good or really bad. anyone can kill a really bad one, very few can kill a good one.

[ocping]

I like how people talk like marauders/sentinels need a lot of "skill" to play because "they have a lot of buttons to press".

 

Wanna talk about individual skill? Play some of these games:

 

Starcraft 2

Dark Soul

Super Street Fighter 4 AE (against 2k and above PP players)

 

Back to OP, no, vanguards will melt 1v1 against sentinels/maras.

[Hizoka]

I like how people talk like marauders/sentinels need a lot of "skill" to play because "they have a lot of buttons to press".

 

Wanna talk about individual skill? Play some of these games:

 

Starcraft 2

Dark Soul

Super Street Fighter 4 AE (against 2k and above PP players)

 

Back to OP, no, vanguards will melt 1v1 against sentinels/maras.

 

you are definatly not someone who is good at playing them if you ever played them, its not just "a lot of buttons" its managing the resource on top of the double the skills of every other class.

[jjgriffin]

Assassins have every tool in the shed and I honestly think they're overrated when it comes to "skill".

 

Fixed that one for ya

[Fafryd]

I'm finding Marauders to be rolling me fairly consistently unless I outgear them. Scratching my head a bit.

[iFruit]

Playing a lowbie Ironfist Vanguard, I don't really fear any force wielder. But then it's entirely possible I'm a nub & my opponents suck.

 

The real question is: Does stockstriking red saber wielding morons in the face ever get old?

 

And the answer is: No. No, it doesn't.

 

I will put you in my signature sir ^^

 

I play a tank Vanguard and to cut it short a Mara's (or anybody else, FTM) only got a chance with me if there's a Sorc watching them

[Mapex]

If you are Assault Specialist specced, you can kill a Marauder so long as you kite him with Ion Pulse and stay at 10m range. Do not let him melee you unless you want to eat a swift death. Save your AOE CC (I think it's called Electro Surge) for when the Marauder pops his damage mitigation/reflection cooldown and if he breaks out of it follow up with your 4 second stun. He will often pop these abilities at low health.

[Dayfax]

I will put you in my signature sir ^^

 

I play a tank Vanguard and to cut it short a Mara's (or anybody else, FTM) only got a chance with me if there's a Sorc watching them

 

 

The real trick is timing your final stockstrike so that it's the killing blow. Just a beautiful animation.

[SirWai]

I like how this has come from an agreement that we will lose 3/4 of the time to a good sent/mara to we steam roll them lol...

 

In my server i lets those bad sents/maras hit me while i do other things (they that weak) however their are the few that you know if they caught u without your cooldowns and below 50% hp your screwed. This is when i start tossing dots everywhere cause no more need to conserve ammo lol, and if you don't do that your a bad vanguard.

 

btw dont look at the lvl 49 and below bracket. Many classes get their best skill at 49 or 50, for instance I think sents don't get inspiration till 49? might be wrong, and vanguards don't get their aoe stun till 49 and they don't get battle focus till 50. So stop using the below brackets as an example since you should be playing the 50 bracket SO MUCH MORE.

 

On another note vanguards dominate snipers, it is so easy, figure out when their burst is coming in, pop def cooldowns and keep bashing them, toss in a few stuns and fodder.

[EugeneYap]

dumb logic is dumb

 

Why? becuz I said that drives you to hate and troll at me?

[Tootzi_]

What up with the op "cheat-death" ability btw?

[Heroe]

In 1v1 I have never had trouble with Juggs or Marauders. Im a full on vanguard tank tho. So I use a mix of stuns,defense cooldowns, and kiting.

[Naxon_Vosh]

... Where in his post does he declare he's good because he's a BM?

 

Nice character names, haha. I recently re-rolled from my Old server :/

working on a Vanguard myself, this time around.

[Prolyfic]

Tank specced PTs/Vanguards can give marauders a good, looooong fight

 

In MMOs, generally the Rock (Tank) beats the scissors (mdps) who beats the paper (Rdps/heals) who beats the Rock (tank)

 

This is my experience having played a 50 shieldtech vs sentinels

and a 30 marauder vs vanguards:

 

Tank vanguards are by far the hardest/longest class for me to kill as marauder and they have tons of cc, an accuracy debuff, and several interrupts

 

on my shieldtech I regularly beat sentinels through sheer attrition 1v1 but if one jumps on me while I'm tied up with someone else, they still kill me faster than any other class

 

Thats why my first alt was a marauder and that's why I always jump on the healers and mdps before the vanguards

Edited April 4, 2012 by Prolyfic

[Humankeg]

On even grounds, equal gear, equal skill, all cooldowns available, no mistakes made, a maruader will beat a pt/vanguard 100% of the time.

 

That being said, The marauder will be at sub 10% life every time too. Its a close match up, but the invincibility ability the marauders have is the game breaker. With out this ability the PT/VG wins 99% of the time.

 

Assassins are also another hard counter to PTs/Vanguards. An assassin (tank spec'd) will win 80% of the matches played against a PT/VG. They have the tools to counter and win. A lucky railshot crit streak from the PT/VG will allow one to edge out a win occassionally though.

[Aaoogaa]

Currenly no class stacks up with a well played, full life, all cooldowns up marauder/sent. The best certain classes can hope for is to get away with their lifebar intact.