Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 So when 1.2 drops my ops leader told me to switch to healing or reroll if I want to keep raiding with them. He explained that he wasnt going to waste a spot on a dps operative when he could bring in any other melee class an it would out damage them. So why should he still use an operative in his ops? Anyone have reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidJustice Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sawbones are awesome! They win matches! Some of my favorite pvp healers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Or you know, your entire guild could wait until everyone gets their DPS tracked on live once the patch comes out before making such statements? Off the top of my head: Battle Res. Combat Stealth to Res. Ranged damage fillers/dots when the boss decides to constantly switch target and leap. Speaking of dots, your double tick talent [25% on Poison Dart] will finally work again. Amazing AOE damage. Carbine Burst + Orbital Strike is crazy good. Edited March 21, 2012 by KyoMamoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaymus Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Did he read the sorc nerfs and tell them to reroll? I don't like the scoundrel changes much, but until I see the other classes and how everything works in orchestra I'll have to bite my tongue. It's bleeding, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Or you know, your entire guild could wait until everyone gets their DPS tracked on live once the patch comes out before making such statements? Off the top of my head: Battle Res. Combat Stealth to Res. Ranged damage fillers/dots when the boss decides to constantly switch target and leap. Speaking of dots, your double tick talent [25% on Poison Dart] will finally work again. Amazing AOE damage. Carbine Burst + Orbital Strike is crazy good. Battle res- sorcs and healing ops Combat stealth- assassins and healing ops Range- again assassins win Aoe- ok I don't know about other aoes but orb strike and carbine burst are very good BUT orb is 60 sec cd and carbine wastes a TA hurting our boss dps even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draxxen Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Operative DPS is still competitive. We had an op dps in for our story mode 1st boss kill. None of the classes DPS is so low compared to others that they are not viable. Operative DPS have a lot of mobility in raids, which is very helpful. Your op leader needs to be doing some more research before shutting the door on you as a player. If he does, you need to find a new op. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kllashaa Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Find a new guild. Your ops leader needs to soak his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Did he read the sorc nerfs and tell them to reroll? I don't like the scoundrel changes much, but until I see the other classes and how everything works in orchestra I'll have to bite my tongue. It's bleeding, yes. Our sorcs arent having issues with the changes do idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Find a new guild. Your ops leader needs to soak his head. Lol why I've seen simulations based on PTS numbers that show a sorc can do more dps casting lightnig bolt over and over then an ops rotation. Or that an equivalently geared assassin pulls 1700 dps compared to my 1150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 So when 1.2 drops my ops leader told me to switch to healing or reroll if I want to keep raiding with them. He explained that he wasnt going to waste a spot on a dps operative when he could bring in any other melee class an it would out damage them. So why should he still use an operative in his ops? Anyone have reasons?Tell him to take you as an act of charity because BW doesn't seem to understand being "viable" does not mean being "useful". Either that, or find a new raid group. I bet he didn't want you for heals before 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Operative DPS is still competitive. We had an op dps in for our story mode 1st boss kill. None of the classes DPS is so low compared to others that they are not viable. Operative DPS have a lot of mobility in raids, which is very helpful. Your op leader needs to be doing some more research before shutting the door on you as a player. If he does, you need to find a new op. IMO What mobility do I have? I can't jump to targets I can't sprint I can't pull I can't even push lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Lol why I've seen simulations based on PTS numbers that show a sorc can do more dps casting lightnig bolt over and over then an ops rotation. Or that an equivalently geared assassin pulls 1700 dps compared to my 1150 Cite the source please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Tell him to take you as an act of charity because BW doesn't seem to understand being "viable" does not mean being "useful". Either that, or find a new raid group. I bet he didn't want you for heals before 1.2. Nope but op healers really sucked compared to sorcs and mercs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVSiN Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Sorry even as a DPS Op I know Im not putting out 1/2 the damage my Mar is.. even pre buff.. not to mention the utility.. and a Merc flat pwns them all.. and I still think even with a 10% nerf to tracer mercs will still be top DPS due to not having to move or worry about melee killing effects.. After the first Op nerf they really ganked them hard for raiding and PVP.. and no real buffs in 1.2 and more nerfs = why bother unless a healer.. this is already pretty prevalent on the bigger servers as there are tons of choices to take with you. Story mode? are you kidding me.. you can almost 5 man story mode its so damn easy. Hard modes and nightmare modes are what matters. and an Ops mediocre DPS when you could take a merc or mar or Sin = why bother? well see how it all lines up but lethality spec which is considered the PVE spec flat blows and didnt get any buffs.. concealment is fairly worthless in PVE.. I moved my Ops to healing after the last nerf and now that its the only tree to get a buff means it will shine even brighter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisguyYay Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) So when 1.2 drops my ops leader told me to switch to healing or reroll if I want to keep raiding with them. He explained that he wasnt going to waste a spot on a dps operative when he could bring in any other melee class an it would out damage them. So why should he still use an operative in his ops? Anyone have reasons? Where you raid leader is absolutely stupid at is, first, i don't think ops are losing dps with 1.2 ... Seconds, why the hell would you have an ops dps over ANY dps, especially ranged ... Even compared to other melee dps, they have better survivability, and in the case of powertech, MORE DPS!! If you are concealment you require being behind your target to hit people for best effect, and you cannot always do that ... I don't think Ops get much dps out of lethality and you still count as melee dps because you have to go in every 6 seconds to shiv to get a TA, or you could spam big heals to get TA's, Hmmm both seem quite silly ... THen if you were in ops as a healer, you can really only main heal the tank, otherwise you spend way too much of your energy trying to keep everyone it doesn't work, especially when i find the best thing to do is put kolto probes on people, but thats quite impracticle, just like putting recuperative nanotech on the raid, Mine as well get 2 sorcs in with their healing circles for raid heals. The best we can do and still only will be able to do is a decent ( at best ) HoT to FOUR PEOPLE. Hmm, better question, why would you even put an ops in you raid group in the first place ?? Yes they can keep up and your raid can still be succesful, but not as succesful as you can be ... ANd it doesn't seem Bioware even understands half the classes : ( or even have a goal on where they want PvP to be. Edited March 21, 2012 by ThisguyYay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its stories ilke this that garner my distaste for elite raiding guilds and various meters. Players shouldn't dictate what other players play. Its one thing for a raid to suggest a better tactic for your toon but another thing entirely for him to dictate what you play. Ops even if their damage is nerfed are still entirely useful for off heals, battle rez and dps. I suggest finding another Guild Honestly one that wants good players and not little minion slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogar Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Quick answer : Switch to lethality because that's the PvE spec for operatives (that actually got buffed a bit) Funny as I see 20% comments are on lethality (which is a great spec especially when mobility and range is involved ... better than assassins) and most people are crying about concealment changes. As of combat rez and stealth rez, I'd rather have a short loss of DPS for several seconds than a healer not doing his job for that time spent. If you don't want to try lethality than go medicine. Operatives will have two choices for PvE and two for PvP ... like a lot of AC really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisguyYay Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Quick answer : Switch to lethality because that's the PvE spec for operatives (that actually got buffed a bit) Funny as I see 20% comments are on lethality (which is a great spec especially when mobility and range is involved ... better than assassins) and most people are crying about concealment changes. As of combat rez and stealth rez, I'd rather have a short loss of DPS for several seconds than a healer not doing his job for that time spent. If you don't want to try lethality than go medicine. Operatives will have two choices for PvE and two for PvP ... like a lot of AC really. Lol what range in lethality a 10m range, who cares. You STILL HAVE TO GO IN MELEE RANGE CONSISTENTLY to get a TA or spam heals to get your TA one or the other ... Its just silly... at the same time, that solves nothing, his guild will just get a powertech, they are MUCH more effective at 10M range than any ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassansinated Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Cite the source please? http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/115/Raid_115.html There ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Find a new org where people aren't a-holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnEvilBus Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 So when 1.2 drops my ops leader told me to switch to healing or reroll if I want to keep raiding with them. He explained that he wasnt going to waste a spot on a dps operative when he could bring in any other melee class an it would out damage them. So why should he still use an operative in his ops? Anyone have reasons? switch to lethality it's better for ops anyway and it's being buffed if anything? or such a minor change that, when i last saw it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrosian Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Funny as I see 20% comments are on lethality (which is a great spec especially when mobility and range is involved ... better than assassins) If you don't want to try lethality than go medicine. Operatives will have two choices for PvE and two for PvP ... like a lot of AC really. 1. Lethality is not "better than Assassins". As someone who has actually raided as every spec of *both toons* I am compelled to point out that Assassins are, at rough estimate, 30% better than Operatives. Force Speed lets you get into (and out of) melee quickly. Force Cloak allows you to throw off SOA balls (among other things). Recklessness lets you get powerful burst OR let you channel for a bit at 30m. The energy regen mechanic on Assassins is completely forgiving, letting you use 100% of your Force on burst without worrying about Adrenaline being off CD. And that's not even getting into the actual abilities of either DPS tree, which are vastly different and both functional, doing far more damage, with far less setup, than Lethality. The worst complaint of Assassin DPS is that sometimes Maul doesn't work right... compared to Concealment *never working period because two of our main abilities don't work in PVE* 2. You're completely ignorant of how raiding works if you think you just switch role on a whim. A DPS doesn't arbitrarily switch to healing, or vice versa. That'd be like saying an Assassin DPS nerf would be acceptable because "you can always go tank"... uh, unless your raid already *has a main tank and recruited you to DPS*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Its stories ilke this that garner my distaste for elite raiding guilds and various meters. Players shouldn't dictate what other players play. Its one thing for a raid to suggest a better tactic for your toon but another thing entirely for him to dictate what you play. Ops even if their damage is nerfed are still entirely useful for off heals, battle rez and dps. I suggest finding another Guild Honestly one that wants good players and not little minion slaves. lol or they could just make my class competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellva Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Quick answer : Switch to lethality because that's the PvE spec for operatives (that actually got buffed a bit) Funny as I see 20% comments are on lethality (which is a great spec especially when mobility and range is involved ... better than assassins) and most people are crying about concealment changes. As of combat rez and stealth rez, I'd rather have a short loss of DPS for several seconds than a healer not doing his job for that time spent. If you don't want to try lethality than go medicine. Operatives will have two choices for PvE and two for PvP ... like a lot of AC really. When I play lethality I find TA generation to be way more energy issues (not taking the 1.2 changes into account) because of the terrible TA generation for the spec Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyoMamoru Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/115/Raid_115.html There ya go There's a reason that there aren't any of the other classes on there; the simulation only handles those classes that are graphed. They even came to our forum and asked for someone to write a plugin for Operatives for it. Why don't you download it before spouting off misinformed rhetoric as fact? Edited March 22, 2012 by KyoMamoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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