How is the Ironfist build performing in the 50 pvp bracket?

[Rotm]

jet speed ... meh

 

rebraced... not good for pvp

 

no escape... only good in huttball

 

oil slick... only good against mauraders and snipers...

 

your spending useless talent points for heat blast when rectractable does more damage...

 

the point of IF is getting everything good for pvp out of the shield tech tree then picking up fillers for damage in the AP tree

 

What I wrote is in regards to 1.2. Using a gcd on RB isn't going to out perform a gcd used on EB+Flame burst. Without RB a shield build can get all of the damage talents available to an IF build. As IF You put 23 in shield and then up to hitman and RB in tier 3 AP and you still get left with 3 points that are going into shield or weak talents like adv tools anyway.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Rotm

[Agooz]

jet speed ... meh

 

rebraced... not good for pvp

 

no escape... only good in huttball

 

oil slick... only good against mauraders and snipers...

 

your spending useless talent points for heat blast when rectractable does more damage...

 

the point of IF is getting everything good for pvp out of the shield tech tree then picking up fillers for damage in the AP tree

 

this is what the parakett does well and the only reason i dont use it is because of the ring... ive played the ring in alot of different games such as a ret pala in wow and i refuse to do it in this game..

 

yes the RP as a bit of a ring in the iron fist build but it hardly procs in pvp so i cant really count it as such..

 

i want predictable in my pvp build

 

Rebraced Armor- is still good for pvp (after all IF or not, you're still a tank)

 

No escape - how is that ONLY good in Huttball? I think it is awesome to immobilize someone with grapple in ANY WZ.

 

Oil Slick - It's actually marauders, snipers and Juggs to a lesser extent, but also anyone else using weapon attack (hec even a Pyro using rapid shots trying to vent heat). But another good thing about it that most people dont know, is that it is AOE debuff, not just an AOE ability. Meaning, the area it applies to is misleading. People cant just walk away from it and be ok. Once you get the debuff from Oil Slick, it stay on you until it expires. So it can still be used on the move, like in Huttball when you are carrying the ball and 4-5 people on you (mostly marauders lol)

 

Heat blast > Retractable Blade, and in 1.2 it is going to be alot better even. First of all Heat blast is all elemental damage, while RB is Kinetic and Internal. Meaning 25%-40% of its damage can be mitigated. Plus Heat Blast's damage is all up front, while half of RB's is a dot which can easily be cleansed.

 

No sir, you got Ironfist completely wrong. There is ZERO fillers you are picking up that increases your damage over a 31ppoint pvp ST. Ironfist is specifically for getting faster quell cooldown and lower cooldown on grapple/dart. That's it.

[Noollig]

No sir, you got Ironfist completely wrong. There is ZERO fillers you are picking up that increases your damage over a 31ppoint pvp ST. Ironfist is specifically for getting faster quell cooldown and lower cooldown on grapple/dart. That's it.

 

Reduced CD on quell > heat blast. The extra 6 points you put into shield tech aren't giving you any more utility. IF is a spec for team players who want to be able to help their team by doing more than just trying to kill something.

[Agooz]

Reduced CD on quell > heat blast. The extra 6 points you put into shield tech aren't giving you any more utility. IF is a spec for team players who want to be able to help their team by doing more than just trying to kill something.

 

Where did I say, playing a Tank (whether an Ironfist tank or not) is about killing something? And what is the logic of comparing Heat Blast (a damage and a heat venting ability, soon to be off of GCD) to an Interrupt?

Any tank spec is just as a team playing spec as IF is. It is ridiculous to make a claim that a 2sec faster cooldown on interrupt somehow transforms a spec from solo to a group viable.

[Noollig]

It is ridiculous to make a claim that a 2sec faster cooldown on interrupt somehow transforms a spec from solo to a group viable.

 

A 2 second faster cooldown makes you more solo and group viable, it doesn't transform you. Heatblast might be slightly better when it's off GCD but it is currently not worth it since there are other abilities you don't have to spec into that do equivalent or more damage within the 15 sec CD of heat blast, retractable blade being one of those abilities.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Noollig

[Agooz]

A 2 second faster cooldown makes you more solo and group viable, it doesn't transform you. Heatblast might be slightly better when it's off GCD but it is currently not worth it since there are other abilities you don't have to spec into that do equivalent or more damage within the 15 sec CD of heat blast.

 

LOL Heat Blast is for "Heat venting" while doing damage.

[Noollig]

LOL Heat Blast is for "Heat venting" while doing damage.

 

So venting 8 heat is worth doing less damage? I don't need to vent heat that badly.

 

In your proposed 31 ST spec you are exchanging 3% FB/RB damage, shortened CD on quell and grapple, and retractable blade for .... 16% armor, 2% shield, oil slick, and heat blast.

 

16% armor and 2% shield are not going to prevent as much damage as interrupting one extra grav round, charged bolts, unload, force lighting, or any other channeled ability. Quell lets you do that.

 

Oil slick is situational at best, marauders use plenty of internal/force attacks to bypass it, and the CD doesn't make it greater than 3% extra FB damage.

 

Heat blast is the only thing that I can see would make some people prefer your spec, if they are running out of heat often enough that they would need to vent 8 heat every 15 seconds. I don't, so it's not worth it to me.

 

It seems like you are really just trying to prove that the Ironfist spec is obsolete, I don't see the point in that.

[Agooz]

So venting 8 heat is worth doing less damage? I don't need to vent heat that badly.

 

In your proposed 31 ST spec you are exchanging 3% FB/RB damage, shortened CD on quell and grapple, and retractable blade for .... 16% armor, 2% shield, oil slick, and heat blast.

 

16% armor and 2% shield are not going to prevent as much damage as interrupting one extra grav round, charged bolts, unload, force lighting, or any other channeled ability. Quell lets you do that.

 

Oil slick is situational at best, marauders use plenty of internal/force attacks to bypass it, and the CD doesn't make it greater than 3% extra FB damage.

 

Heat blast is the only thing that I can see would make some people prefer your spec, if they are running out of heat often enough that they would need to vent 8 heat every 15 seconds. I don't, so it's not worth it to me.

 

It seems like you are really just trying to prove that the Ironfist spec is obsolete, I don't see the point in that.

 

I never said ONE thing bad about Ironfist, nor am I telling anyone that it is obsolete. And why would it be obsolete? The 1.2 changes are not affecting it. My responses is always in reply to people that put Ironfist as a "hyrbid" spec bridging tank and adding more dps. It is not. Plain and simple. It is 100% a tank spec. A hybrid of tank+dps is(was) the Parakeet. And even that was considered a pvp Tank spec. But because it was putting out a decent amount of damage as a tank, it has been made not viable any more.

 

Quell in Ironfist is 2sec off cooldown, not 4! people make it seem like you are interrupting twice as much. It is a matter of preference. There is no right or wrong. Just like you think 16% armor, 2% shield, oil slick, and heat blast doesnt make a difference to you. I can honestly tell you, that 2sec off of quell doesnt really make a difference to me, or at least not enough of a difference to trade it the other things.

 

Even tanking in PvE I can sometimes overheat. Heat is more of an issue in PvP for a tank. Unless you are proccing your shield, what other mechanism do you have to manage your heat? More venting = more spaming of high heat abilities. I dont see how ANY sort of heat venting is bad or not needed. Hec even running as AP, there were situations where my heat was high.

[Noollig]

I agree, Ironfist is a tank spec. I guess people see that the rocket punches can crit for quite a good amount and assume it's "DPS," without understanding that the tank tree is where it's crits are coming from.

 

With the 6 second quell, you get 4 interrupts in the time it takes others to interrupt 3 times. It lets you interrupt 25% more often, that's it. If you don't do a lot of interrupting then it's not worth it.

 

I definitely see your ST spec becoming even better in 1.2 when oil slick and heat blast are off GCD.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Noollig

[gloaria]

if u did run a 31 pt st spec wouldnt it make more sense to take 5 points in empowered tech to boost the chances of flame shield proc? i mean thats a 10% more chance to proc

 

something like this is what i would try and run with

 

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/16/?023202322010012200120050001002030210000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000build=

 

u can move points from rebraced to no escape if u feel need to have it

Edited March 29, 2012 by gloaria

[Agooz]

if u did run a 31 pt st spec wouldnt it make more sense to take 5 points in empowered tech to boost the chances of flame shield proc? i mean thats a 10% more chance to proc

 

something like this is what i would try and run with

 

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/16/?023202322010012200120050001002030210000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000build=

 

u can move points from rebraced to no escape if u feel need to have it

 

It appears your points spent didnt save in that link.

 

It's preference really. In my opinion armor is good. I mean when you switch to IGC and you see how much longer you last, most of that is the armor boost you got from it, not really the shielding. Until they make shield more useful in PvP, I will stick to more armor.

An idea that I had is why not allow shields to proc, just not absorb any damage against force/tech abilities. That would make things very interesting.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Agooz

[theangryllama]

if u did run a 31 pt st spec wouldnt it make more sense to take 5 points in empowered tech to boost the chances of flame shield proc? i mean thats a 10% more chance to proc

 

something like this is what i would try and run with

 

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/powertech/16/?023202322010012200120050001002030210000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000build=

 

u can move points from rebraced to no escape if u feel need to have it

 

Problem is that shields and defense only proc against melee and ranged attacks and the majority of player attacks fall into the tech or force categories.

 

This is why specs like parakeet and ironfist existed because heat blast is generally considered useless (may become more useful in 1.2) and 10% shield chance in pvp is not worth 5 points and you can get all the % modifiers to damage intake so you still feel 'tanky'

 

So you either went for higher damage while tanking with parakeet or greater utility by going ironfist (adds 2s off quell, lower grapple cooldown, root on grapple and stealth scan, snare on IGC procs)

[luxflux]

You are so totally awesome! Your post is totally unbiased because you've played all the specs and it must be true! You can kill anything and I want to be like you so I can be awesome too!!!!

 

Even in IF spec I destroy pyros who aren't sporting the best gear, especially pyros in centurion sets who think they'll melt faces because of posts like yours. Pyro requires at least a 4 pc set for the railshot crit bonus and more crit after that. If they aren't in full champ I chuckle as they ask themselves why they can't burn me down with their almighty burst damage.

 

The extra 9% damage reduction in IF matters more than you might think when you're also 150 or more expertise below the guys who have been at it a while. When I'm mitigating 12% of all your damage, plus reducing your damage by 4% those big crits don't seem so great.

 

Undergeared pyros often run out of heat while they try to spam their FB and railshot while only succeeding in resetting my rocket punch since their low crit makes RS get shielded half the time after I pop my relic.

 

Pyros rely on top-tier gear and back to back railshots to put out their burst while keeping heat down, without it they burn themselves out.

 

 

 

A new 50 in IF spec will live longer, so they can do more damage, and will provide more utility to a group. A player doesn't have to kill two players to keep them from capping a turret or planting a bomb, they just have to be able to live long enough to smash the attempt until friends show up.

 

IF is for catching up to ball carriers using the charge to root them on fire pits. IF lets you guard a carrier so the healers can keep them up while pyros waste their energy focusing the carrier and doing 80% less damage to them. IF is for holding objectives so your team can respawn and run back again. IF is for holding doors on voidstar and keeping healers locked down. IF is for reducing damage your team takes so you live longer than the other team. A teammate with 10% life left still does full damage.

 

A lot of no-talent players are going to be lost when 1.2 hits. Good pyros will still be good, but will have to time abilities right to keep their burst.

 

So much arrogance in this post. None of it matches with my experience going from fresh 50 pyro to bm pyro. Not sure why you called your quoted poster out, he made a valid point which I also agree with. I also have seen 0 evidence for any of your points. Sounds like your upset at pyro spec. Chill bro.