How is the Ironfist build performing in the 50 pvp bracket?

[Rotm]

Being able to do flameburst and heatblast in one gcd for one ammo should kill this build next patch. 8/31/2 with ion gas should become the new tanky/damage/utility build until they kill that build too. Edited March 27, 2012 by Rotm

[Agooz]

Being able to do flameburst and heatblast in one gcd for one ammo should kill this build next patch. 8/31/2 with ion gas should become the new tanky/damage/utility build until they kill that build too.

 

umm and what kind of mechanism will you have to vent heat? rapid shot every 2 GCDs?

You cant do less than 17points in shieldtech to be able to use IGC and have a manageable heat system.

[Rotm]

umm and what kind of mechanism will you have to vent heat? rapid shot every 2 GCDs?

You cant do less than 17points in shieldtech to be able to use IGC and have a manageable heat system.

 

free 16 heat rp every 9 sec, immolate for 8 heat replaces a 16 heat FB in Ironfist rotation. Flamethrower for 25 heat over 3 sec replaces two 16 heat skills over 3 sec in Ironfist rotation. I doubt the heat management is far off and probably superior given how inconsistent shielding is. Also take into account quell will be free in 1.2 so that helps.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Rotm

[sensiblepoast]

The only reason we have the IF spec is because a significant part of the tanky side of the tank spec is so useless in PVP it doesn't hold up even to the puny dps that IF puts out or the points in frontline defense/quell.

[sensiblepoast]

it is my plan to go back to ironfist when 1.2 hits as it gets a slight buff with the quell upgrade.

Does it? current "unfotms" do uninterruptible lollightning, 1.2 fotm's ravage/master strike be uninterruptible... and healers will probably still think you're a nuisance.

[ALDrinkwater]

I run Ironfist on my powertech, gives good damage and great survivability at lvl 50.

[ALDrinkwater]

Anything other than full pyro is crap in the current iteration of the game IMO. Played all the major builds. Pyro's burst trumps any utility/survivability. I don't have to survive when I can burst everything down. Besides, most times when you die in pvp it's due to being focused. Extra mitigation won't help you when the other team decides its your time to go. On pyro, I can take two of em with me. On IF or CP? None usually. I cough when another spec of ptech attempts to do anything to my pyro... Survivability is only good if you are a dedicated tank guarding a healer IMO. Otherwise 7/6/28 or some variation ftw.

 

would like to see how your pyro does when i get in close and use my melee attacks and beleive me, it wont take me long to get close. Jet charge ftw.

[luxflux]

would like to see how your pyro does when i get in close and use my melee attacks and beleive me, it wont take me long to get close. Jet charge ftw.

 

You are trolling right? I've never fought a IF, tank spec, or AP spec that I didn't roll over in pvp. Period. I laugh when they come near me and get melted. I'm really curious if you're trolling. There is no chance for you 1v1 vs a 1.1.5 pyro. No idea what next update will do, but IF isn't even designed to go toe to toe with a pure burst dps like pyro powertech so....yeah. L2P and understand your spec.

I've played all the specs, fyi, and I know I couldn't kill my pyro on an IF spec with the same gear so...lol.

[exphryl]

You are trolling right? I've never fought a IF, tank spec, or AP spec that I didn't roll over in pvp. Period. I laugh when they come near me and get melted. I'm really curious if you're trolling. There is no chance for you 1v1 vs a 1.1.5 pyro. No idea what next update will do, but IF isn't even designed to go toe to toe with a pure burst dps like pyro powertech so....yeah. L2P and understand your spec.

I've played all the specs, fyi, and I know I couldn't kill my pyro on an IF spec with the same gear so...lol.

 

Didn't get the memo? Retractable blade hits harder than Rail Shot.

 

(/sarcasmoff)

 

No but really, Lux is spot on. A pyro should *never* lose to an IF Build. Unless the Pyro starts at Half health and is played by a paraplegic monkey.

 

Those crafty monkeys.

Edited March 27, 2012 by exphryl

[Agooz]

would like to see how your pyro does when i get in close and use my melee attacks and beleive me, it wont take me long to get close. Jet charge ftw.

 

Yes please use your jet charge on a pyro, so you can die a litte faster. And dont forget to use Quell on our......errr wait, quell is useless on Pyros.

[exphryl]

Yes please use your jet charge on a pyro, so you can die a litte faster. And dont forget to use Quell on our......errr wait, quell is useless on Pyros.

 

Speaking of which, today in Warzones this Pyro that was consistently on the other team was using Unload and Flamethrower in melee nonstop (against a single melee opponent). I couldn't help but chuckle...

Edited March 27, 2012 by exphryl

[gloaria]

i dont know what everyone is on about.. i play IF every day and love it.. it puts out great damage and i have good survivablity..

 

i cant wait till i get full battlemaster gear for it.. i truly think its one of the better builds for a PT

 

most classes i have no trouble 1 v 1 with them if they are equally geared..ive killed several war heros wih this build and one was a muarader just today..

 

i would encourage anyone wanted to try something new to try the IF spec.. its fun as hell.

[BryH]

Is this build viable in pve like parakeet was or strikly a pvp build?

[Agooz]

i dont know what everyone is on about.. i play IF every day and love it.. it puts out great damage and i have good survivablity..

 

i cant wait till i get full battlemaster gear for it.. i truly think its one of the better builds for a PT

 

most classes i have no trouble 1 v 1 with them if they are equally geared..ive killed several war heros wih this build and one was a muarader just today..

 

i would encourage anyone wanted to try something new to try the IF spec.. its fun as hell.

 

What great damage are you talking about? You do realize IF is a Tank, right? You trade 6 points from the ST tree and put them in AP tree, and none of these points go anywhere to increase your damage. In fact you would do more damage as a full ST. And neither of which even comes close to the damage/dps of any dps AC let alone a Pyro.

You dont play a Tank spec, IF or not, expecting to do damage and rack up the kills. (exception: cheese Assassins tank hybrids). That's not to say you shouldnt be "trying" to put out as much damage as you can. ANY dps AC, played by someone of equal skill/gear, should not die to a PT tank in a 1v1.

[Agooz]

Is this build viable in pve like parakeet was or strikly a pvp build?

 

It's a pvp tank. So it is viable as a tank role. You can do HM flashpoints with it no prob. I wouldnt recommend HM/NM ops with it. The parakeet on the other hand was viable both as a tank and a dps role, that's why it will no longer be allowed in 1.2

[Obtena]

i dont know what everyone is on about..

 

The "WHAT" that everyone is on about is the fact that damage output is relative and what you may think is really good damage from the IF spec is actually lackluster compared to the Parakeet spec.

 

My view is that each spec shines in particular WZ's based on my playstyle. I loved parakeet in Civil War. You are toe-to-toe with the opposition and there are only 3 points of interest so mobility wasn't so important .. therefore the faster grapple and quell was less necessary they simply clearing the enemy. Voidstar was similar, though there was more cat and mouse, so IF became more significant. IF shines in Huttball because winning isn't necessarily dependent on killing people.

 

I would be interested in hearing someone's experience in full pyro vs. IF, especially on the survival portion. Do I really get an even deal trading all that pyro offense for some partially functioning defensive stats? I suspect I don't.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Obtena

[Agooz]

 

I would be interested in hearing someone's experience in full pyro vs. IF, especially on the survival portion. Do I really get an even deal trading all that pyro offense for some partially functioning defensive stats? I suspect I don't.

 

For someone who tried ST/IF/CP/AP, if your playstyle is to melt faces, nothing comes close to Pyro. I actually believe that the damge/burst of Pyro give BETTER "survivability" than any other spec (outside of being focused by 2 or more players). How is it an advantage to take less damage but need a whole lot longer time to take someone down? As a pyro there isnt any AC that I can not take 1v1, including tankasins, marauders, and healers.

 

Pyro is for trying to stop ball carriers and their chain puller Sorcs. Pyro is for Taking objectives, Pyro is for clear the door in voidstar. ST/IF is for running the ball, defending objectives. AP is for people who "think" they know better than all the other PTs

Edited March 28, 2012 by Agooz

[gloaria]

iron fist isnt meant to melt face or take tons of damage.. iron fist is meant to have just enough defence mixed with a little offence to grind your enemy down...

[Noollig]

For someone who tried ST/IF/CP/AP, if your playstyle is to melt faces, nothing comes close to Pyro. I actually believe that the damge/burst of Pyro give BETTER "survivability" than any other spec (outside of being focused by 2 or more players). How is it an advantage to take less damage but need a whole lot longer time to take someone down? As a pyro there isnt any AC that I can not take 1v1, including tankasins, marauders, and healers.

 

You are so totally awesome! Your post is totally unbiased because you've played all the specs and it must be true! You can kill anything and I want to be like you so I can be awesome too!!!!

 

Even in IF spec I destroy pyros who aren't sporting the best gear, especially pyros in centurion sets who think they'll melt faces because of posts like yours. Pyro requires at least a 4 pc set for the railshot crit bonus and more crit after that. If they aren't in full champ I chuckle as they ask themselves why they can't burn me down with their almighty burst damage.

 

The extra 9% damage reduction in IF matters more than you might think when you're also 150 or more expertise below the guys who have been at it a while. When I'm mitigating 12% of all your damage, plus reducing your damage by 4% those big crits don't seem so great.

 

Undergeared pyros often run out of heat while they try to spam their FB and railshot while only succeeding in resetting my rocket punch since their low crit makes RS get shielded half the time after I pop my relic.

 

Pyros rely on top-tier gear and back to back railshots to put out their burst while keeping heat down, without it they burn themselves out.

 

Pyro is for trying to stop ball carriers and their chain puller Sorcs. Pyro is for Taking objectives, Pyro is for clear the door in voidstar. ST/IF is for running the ball, defending objectives. AP is for people who "think" they know better than all the other PTs

 

A new 50 in IF spec will live longer, so they can do more damage, and will provide more utility to a group. A player doesn't have to kill two players to keep them from capping a turret or planting a bomb, they just have to be able to live long enough to smash the attempt until friends show up.

 

IF is for catching up to ball carriers using the charge to root them on fire pits. IF lets you guard a carrier so the healers can keep them up while pyros waste their energy focusing the carrier and doing 80% less damage to them. IF is for holding objectives so your team can respawn and run back again. IF is for holding doors on voidstar and keeping healers locked down. IF is for reducing damage your team takes so you live longer than the other team. A teammate with 10% life left still does full damage.

 

A lot of no-talent players are going to be lost when 1.2 hits. Good pyros will still be good, but will have to time abilities right to keep their burst.

[Agooz]

iron fist isnt meant to melt face or take tons of damage.. iron fist is meant to have just enough defence mixed with a little offence to grind your enemy down...

 

hmmm...ok...The defence mix I see you are getting from the ST tree. Now to the part of mixing a little offense...can you specifically mention just ONE offensive ability that increases your damage, and or burst in the Iron Fist spec, that a 31 ST doesnt have?

 

Again, I am not bashing the spec, but call it what it is. IF is a Tank spec, that sacrifices some defenses that are not all that crucial in PvP, for more control or utility elements that are more useful in pvp.

 

When I run a Tank pvp spec I go with something like this:

http://r2-db.com/skill-tree/calculator/9/bounty-hunter/powertech#build=fdfe6cedd831c0000000c00000000

With this spec I have a little more damage and defenses than an IF. And that is what I want when "I" go as a tank. It's all a matter of preference when you learn your class well. A specific spec is NEVER going to make you a good PvPer.

[Noollig]

can you specifically mention just ONE offensive ability that increases your damage, and or burst in the Iron Fist spec, that a 31 ST doesnt have?

 

IF is able to take the 2 second reduction on the interrupt CD, 2% damage reduction, retractable blade (if you want it), 6% flameburst damage, and 8% rocket punch damage.

 

A 31 ST can never get the 6 second interrupt, and will have to lose at least one of the bonuses to damage. If you don't need the interrupt, then I'd do something closer to your spec. Currently, the republic on my server has a ton of healers, so the interrupt is vital for me.

 

I agree though, a specific spec won't make you a good PvPer and it is better to adjust any spec to your own playstyle since you know what you use often and what you don't use often.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Noollig

[Agooz]

You are so totally awesome! Your post is totally unbiased because you've played all the specs and it must be true! You can kill anything and I want to be like you so I can be awesome too!!!!

 

Wow, only two lines of sarcasm? and that bought you some kind of credibility over me stating that I have experience with all the other specs? Why, is it some kind of accomplishment to try different specs, or actually something that everyone should do, instead of coming here and giving info about a spec that is completely wrong.

 

Even in IF spec I destroy pyros who aren't sporting the best gear, especially pyros in centurion sets who think they'll melt faces because of posts like yours. Pyro requires at least a 4 pc set for the railshot crit bonus and more crit after that. If they aren't in full champ I chuckle as they ask themselves why they can't burn me down with their almighty burst damage.

 

Now, you're making everyone laugh at you. And what you accused me of, you can teach classes in. lol Even in IF spec, you mean even in a tank spec, you destroy Pyros? right? you have to say it the right, because there is ABSOLUTELY nothing the IF spec gives you that is considered an ONCE of advantage fighting a pyro. Nothing.

 

So you actually think that people will take you seriously when you say Pyros require 4pc crit bonus? So all those BM pyros out there in t1/t2 8% railshot are cake for you then. And why cant they burn you down? I just dont get it. Did I miss some talent that negates the insane Pyro elemental damage or the RS crits? lol You do know that out of the 3 tanks, PTs are the easiest to take down, right? unless of course it is played by someone like you who play the <drumroll> IRON FIST....<sorry couldnt resist>

 

The extra 9% damage reduction in IF matters more than you might think when you're also 150 or more expertise below the guys who have been at it a while. When I'm mitigating 12% of all your damage, plus reducing your damage by 4% those big crits don't seem so great.

 

ok ok calm down. Brace yourself for this shocking news...Full ST spec not only has the 9% mitigation but also more chance to shield, so in a sense more mitigation.

Also can you have just ONE argument where you are comparing two foes with same gear and same skill? Do you ONLY go against foes who are less geared and less skillful? lol You want to make a valid argument, dont say "oh IF rules if I have twice the gear and twice the expertise than the guy I am fighting". I mean seriously, I am trying to help you here.

Yes those defenses will really help against huge crits, so instead of dealing 5k on you, I'll ONLY be doing 4.5k. Ok I guess you are right, I'll just have to resort to rapid shots to finish you off lol.

 

Undergeared pyros often run out of heat while they try to spam their FB and railshot while only succeeding in resetting my rocket punch since their low crit makes RS get shielded half the time after I pop my relic.

 

OMG again with the undergeared pyros. Ok fine I will let you have this round. IF is AWESOME against fresh 50 Pyros. Happy now? lol

 

Pyros rely on top-tier gear and back to back railshots to put out their burst while keeping heat down, without it they burn themselves out.

 

Yes, while IF doesnt require gear at all, you can even be naked and run around quelling Tankasins and Marauders 2sec faster.

 

A new 50 in IF spec will live longer, so they can do more damage, and will provide more utility to a group. A player doesn't have to kill two players to keep them from capping a turret or planting a bomb, they just have to be able to live long enough to smash the attempt until friends show up.

 

Yes of course, you dont need to kill two players to keep them from capping a turret. But Pyros do it anyways, because they can.

 

IF is for catching up to ball carriers using the charge to root them on fire pits. IF lets you guard a carrier so the healers can keep them up while pyros waste their energy focusing the carrier and doing 80% less damage to them. IF is for holding objectives so your team can respawn and run back again. IF is for holding doors on voidstar and keeping healers locked down. IF is for reducing damage your team takes so you live longer than the other team. A teammate with 10% life left still does full damage.

 

Amazing!!? all this is Exclusive to the Iron Fist?! man all along I thought this was available to ALL tanks and certainly full Shieldtechs. I guess you learn something new everyday.

 

A lot of no-talent players are going to be lost when 1.2 hits. Good pyros will still be good, but will have to time abilities right to keep their burst.

 

wow, finally something worthwhile to say. I guess I should have just skipped to the last paragraph. Good luck "talented" player.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Agooz

[Agooz]

can you specifically mention just ONE offensive ability that increases your damage, and or burst in the Iron Fist spec, that a 31 ST doesnt have?

 

IF is able to take the 2 second reduction on the interrupt CD, 2% damage reduction, retractable blade (if you want it), 6% flameburst damage, and 8% rocket punch damage.

 

A 31 ST can never get the 6 second interrupt, and will have to lose at least one of the bonuses to damage. If you don't need the interrupt, then I'd do something closer to your spec. Currently, the republic on my server has a ton of healers, so the interrupt is vital for me.

 

I agree though, a specific spec won't make you a good PvPer and it is better to adjust any spec to your own playstyle since you know what you use often and what you don't use often.

 

You actually did look at the spec I linked before writing all this? ok I guess others will also look at it and see that what you wrote makes no sense.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Agooz

[Rotm]

A full shield can skip empowered tech entirely and pick up jet speed, rebraced, no escape and oil slick. It will also still have the points for iron fist and hot iron and proto cylinder or 1/2 of power armor.

 

Iron fist builds aren't gaining damage over the new heat blast and they lose heat management. They aren't gaining damage reduction if they give up rebraced or oil slick and they lose utility if they give up no escape and jet speed. Those are all good abilities that IF has to drop 5 pts of. Hitman is pretty much the only thing going for this build. I would say that makes it a specialist group vs group build and not a solo play build.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Rotm

[gloaria]

A full shield can skip empowered tech entirely and pick up jet speed, rebraced, no escape and oil slick. It will also still have the points for iron fist and hot iron and proto cylinder or 1/2 of power armor.

 

Iron fist builds aren't gaining damage over the new heat blast and they lose heat management. They aren't gaining damage reduction if they give up rebraced or oil slick and they lose utility if they give up no escape and jet speed. Those are all good abilities that IF has to drop 5 pts of. Hitman is pretty much the only thing going for this build. I would say that makes it a specialist group vs group build and not a solo play build.

 

jet speed ... meh

 

rebraced... not good for pvp

 

no escape... only good in huttball

 

oil slick... only good against mauraders and snipers...

 

your spending useless talent points for heat blast when rectractable does more damage...

 

the point of IF is getting everything good for pvp out of the shield tech tree then picking up fillers for damage in the AP tree

 

this is what the parakett does well and the only reason i dont use it is because of the ring... ive played the ring in alot of different games such as a ret pala in wow and i refuse to do it in this game..

 

yes the RP as a bit of a ring in the iron fist build but it hardly procs in pvp so i cant really count it as such..

 

i want predictable in my pvp build

Edited March 29, 2012 by gloaria