Tanks and somethings they may not tell you

[Ashphael]

I will speak from a healer's point of view. We were doing a BT HM and we encountered the mini-boss (the droid after destroying the consoles). Tank put guard on me and started to attack. At some point I was using everything I had on healing the squishy sorc dps because the tank couldn't keep aggro. DPS stopped doing DPS to allow the tank to take over aggro again...

 

That's where taunt comes into play.

 

As assassin, I have a taunt on a 15 second CD and an area-taunt on a 45 second CD. I'd like to see the DPS that manages to pull aggro so fast that those taunts don't suffice and at the same time is so squishy that this is a problem (the gear would have to be uber-fantastic and that usually comes with some endurance...)

 

Because of this, we wiped 5 times because we lost to the enrage timer. We dropped the tank, got a guildie of mine who guarded the highest DPS class... Facerolled the boss.

 

No, you wiped because the tank didn't find his taunt button. You probably also wiped because the tank positioned himself so badly that power punch kicked him all the way so it took him too long to close the distance and start building aggro again, if I may put a wild guess out there. (Hint: you can stand, for example, with your back to the frame of the doorway and you won't be kicked out of melee range.)

EDIT: You are slowed after Power Punch, so it takes a while to close distance. Additionally, during this time the robot usually uses his full-auto ability that'll hurt a freshly 50 tank badly. Also, the slow means that you take a while to come into range to interrupt the full-auto. All of this is a problem only if you allow yourself to be kicked out of melee range.

 

You (again, probably) wiped because the tank didn't know what to interrupt (hint: not the power punch). You (probably) wiped because the tank didn't coordinate interrupts with the DPS.

 

Having said all this, I normally guard melee DPS as well, in most situations. In this fight, it shouldn't really matter, but it's wasted on the healer, since the healer should not take any damage at all.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Ashphael

[Erevan_Kindelar]

My healers (Sage, Sorc, Merc, Commando and Operative... my Scoundrel hates the sight of blood though, so she refuses) seem to be very adept at pulling aggro off tanks and DPS alike, but I guess that says more about what they are doing than what I am doing.

I also find that even though I can be anywhere within 30m of the group I typically stick within the 12-15m range so that the group is covering a smaller area and is less likely to collect aggro from a patrolling mob while we are all busy (I am watching for those, but sometimes I am a little occupied with the healing part ). As such, Guard works on me.

 

When I am healing, I usually ask the tank to Guard me initially, and if I find that one of the DPS is pulling aggro particularly easily and I am getting very little incoming damage, I will usually as the tank to switch and guard the DPS. But irrespective, the guard should be on the player the group is in most danger of losing first or can least afford to lose - whether that is the healer or the DPS.

 

We fine-tune our tactics as we go through an instance, because I rarely group with Guildies so I am constantly getting to know new people in PuGs.

[RDeanOU]

This, all the way. To add another example: there's the Krel Thak fight on Battle of Ilum; it's a good idea to put Guard on the healer because of the adds he spawns with such annoying frequency. They like to ******** the healer while you're still stunned (there are workarounds to this, I know).

 

Leaving Guard on the healer for the entire fight is foolish.

 

5% damage reduction is not significant in a bursty situation like this. If the healer can heal himself through 95% of the damage he is taking from those adds he can heal himself through 100% of it. Over the course of a long fight where the healer is constantly having to throw extra little heals on the dps it will matter. It does not matter over a few seconds when a healer is getting hit by mobs.

 

Guard is for mitigating threat. The damage mitigation is just a bonus. Healers DO NOT gain enough threat for guard to matter on them. It is a waste on a healer. It just is.

[RDeanOU]

My healers (Sage, Sorc, Merc, Commando and Operative... my Scoundrel hates the sight of blood though, so she refuses) seem to be very adept at pulling aggro off tanks and DPS alike, but I guess that says more about what they are doing than what I am doing.

I also find that even though I can be anywhere within 30m of the group I typically stick within the 12-15m range so that the group is covering a smaller area and is less likely to collect aggro from a patrolling mob while we are all busy (I am watching for those, but sometimes I am a little occupied with the healing part ). As such, Guard works on me.

 

When I am healing, I usually ask the tank to Guard me initially, and if I find that one of the DPS is pulling aggro particularly easily and I am getting very little incoming damage, I will usually as the tank to switch and guard the DPS. But irrespective, the guard should be on the player the group is in most danger of losing first or can least afford to lose - whether that is the healer or the DPS.

 

We fine-tune our tactics as we go through an instance, because I rarely group with Guildies so I am constantly getting to know new people in PuGs.

 

You are not pulling aggro from healing. You just aren't. Healing aggro is 50% of what damage is. You are not putting out twice as much hps as the dps is dps. You probably also specced into reduced aggro for your healing making your threat gain completely insignificant. It is NOT possible for you to gain threat quickly enough to pull aggro over the tank and dps unless they are just standing around not doing anything.

 

What you are doing is getting aggro on mobs no one is paying any attention to. A percentage drop to your aggro isn't effective in that situation because 80% of your threat is still more than the zero other people have on those mobs.

 

Stop asking for guard on you as the healer. It lets a pug tank know that you don't understand the way aggro works in this game.

[RDeanOU]

Well, there are fights with random aggro / frequent aggro resets. There are fights where the healer will invariably stand within 15 meters. I like to switch guard to the healer in such fights.

 

FE hm... HK47, healer normally in range (if only to be able to drop a bomb on a gun in time, so we can kill it more quickly once HK is down). OK, I rarely lose aggro on the guns, but the healer can still be targeted. Later, Malgus himself. Shield on Healer if they are the ones fighting malgus alone for a while. They usually stay in place and heal through it. This way, they have a little less to heal through. Just basic courtesy.

 

So you see, it's not that simple. I'd agree to "Always guarding healer is wrong, always guarding DPS is better, but still wrong, knowing the fights and guarding whoever will probably benefit the most is right."

 

Aggro resets don't change who should have guard. You still want melee dps gaining aggro slowly before and after the reset.

 

I don't know why people can't understand that this buff is about threat. 5% damage reduction is not significant in any of those scenarios.

 

I have done the HK fight in FE a dozen times or more and there was never a single instance where a healer got aggro. There was never a single instance where the healer would have benefited from a guard buff. That fight is a dps check. If your dps can't get HK before the enrage you are in bad trouble. Guarding a healer on that fight is simply foolish period.

[Cleet_Xia]

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that you don't heal on trash pulls? What % of your spells on trash pulls are heals and what % are damage spells?

 

This depends on a lot of variables. But if the tank is good, and holds aggro well from the dps, my heals can be less than 10% of my casts. It can be that low in almost every trash fight with proper use of CC. The better we control the mobs, mitigate their damage, and prevent them from even attacking- the less damage there is for me to heal. I don't pull threat away from melee DPS in most cases. But if the timing of abilities being used is right, it does happen. At the outset of every fight my first cast is force armor. If the tank has managed to take aggro from all mobs, I only cast this once before I begin my dps "rotation". If I don't need to heal, I stay in my DPS rotation. And I don't worry about healing someone who is only down by 10%. If I see aggro move to a dps, I skip a dps cast, and give them a bubble. If nobody ever gets hurt, there is nothing for me to heal. Then it's back into my dps rotation just like the FA was a dps cast. At then end of the fight I cast salvation & begin meditating so that we can quickly go to the next fight. I generally have the least resource left of any member in the group. And have even less after fights where I did not dps. As we move I stay in the middle of the pack as best as I can, so that if we accidentally pull aggro it won't be on me.

 

My typical dps rotation is Mind Crush>Weaken Mind>Disturbance>Project>TK Throw With 33% crit & 70% surge. If it's a good place for AoE spam, I spam right along with the DPS. Healing doesn't really have a rotation, but my typical string of casts is Force Armor>Rejuvenate>Healing Trance>Noble Sac. Other abilities happen when they are needed.

 

On a boss fight the ratio of heals to DPS is completely flipped, and only 10% of my casts are DPS. I consider CC & interupts part of my healing abilites, because they amount to damage mitigation.

[RDeanOU]

This depends on a lot of variables. But if the tank is good, and holds aggro well from the dps, my heals can be less than 10% of my casts. It can be that low in almost every trash fight with proper use of CC. The better we control the mobs, mitigate their damage, and prevent them from even attacking- the less damage there is for me to heal. I don't pull threat away from melee DPS in most cases. But if the timing of abilities being used is right, it does happen. At the outset of every fight my first cast is force armor. If the tank has managed to take aggro from all mobs, I only cast this once before I begin my dps "rotation". If I don't need to heal, I stay in my DPS rotation. And I don't worry about healing someone who is only down by 10%. If I see aggro move to a dps, I skip a dps cast, and give them a bubble. If nobody ever gets hurt, there is nothing for me to heal. Then it's back into my dps rotation just like the FA was a dps cast. At then end of the fight I cast salvation & begin meditating so that we can quickly go to the next fight. I generally have the least resource left of any member in the group. And have even less after fights where I did not dps. As we move I stay in the middle of the pack as best as I can, so that if we accidentally pull aggro it won't be on me.

 

My typical dps rotation is Mind Crush>Weaken Mind>Disturbance>Project>TK Throw With 33% crit & 70% surge. If it's a good place for AoE spam, I spam right along with the DPS. Healing doesn't really have a rotation, but my typical string of casts is Force Armor>Rejuvenate>Healing Trance>Noble Sac. Other abilities happen when they are needed.

 

On a boss fight the ratio of heals to DPS is completely flipped, and only 10% of my casts are DPS. I consider CC & interupts part of my healing abilites, because they amount to damage mitigation.

 

If you are dpsing 90% of the time on trash pulls then I hardly think the rule of "don't guard the healer" applies because...well you aren't really healing.

[thorizdin]

Are we really talking about guard tactics for trash? Other than paying attention to the correct kill order and a few important mez targets there's not a lot strategy required.

 

I can you tell you that for trash the guy I'm guarding is whoever still has it from the last boss. The only exception to that is if we running someone through who is way undergeared and needs to be babied through.

[Ashphael]

Aggro resets don't change who should have guard. You still want melee dps gaining aggro slowly before and after the reset.

 

I don't know why people can't understand that this buff is about threat. 5% damage reduction is not significant in any of those scenarios.

 

Aggro resets happen mid-fight, when, in contrast to the beginning of the fight, HOTs are rolling and heals are incoming.

 

I have done the HK fight in FE a dozen times or more and there was never a single instance where a healer got aggro. There was never a single instance where the healer would have benefited from a guard buff. That fight is a dps check. If your dps can't get HK before the enrage you are in bad trouble. Guarding a healer on that fight is simply foolish period.

 

HK can sniper anyone randomly. I've had many runs where the healer was the most squishy. In fights with random damage, I like to guard the squishy one.

 

Of course, I could do FE HM without guarding. I've done the first half of FE hm before an irritated question from the healer (guildmate) about the amount of damage I took made me realize that I was still in lightning charge. OK, that was late at night and I was tired...

 

...anyway, for me, minimizing the amount of work others, especially healers, have to do is basic courtesy. That includes guarding the squishy one in fights where random players can get substantial damage as well as keeping the -5% damage debuff active on as many mobs as possible, as long as possible. Not because it's needed. Because it makes live just a little bit easier for someone else. If only so the healer can pet his cat during tha boss-encounter. Cats deserve that simply for being cats.

[Lykurgus]

Not at level 50 yet but still either way ***** dps need to learn not to nuke withing the first 5 seconds

 

This has been the case in every MMO ive played. It will not change, sadly.

[midnitemonster]

What is the deal with all of this Guard talk? I thought this thread was about Taunt?

 

If your healer is getting aggro on trash and your three taunts are on cool down, then it is up to your dps to kill that guy asap. Or you could try I dunno, stunning the target until your taunt is ready. The dps easily gets tunnel vision when they should be killing weakest targets or targets on healers that can not be taunted.

 

Outside of HM flashpoints and in Ops you keep your Guard on melee dps. End of story, there has never been a need for me to put it on a healer in Ops from normal-NM. If you are telling Healers to run to you during trash or boss fights because you have Guard on them (for a measly 5% reduction)... you are doing it wrong. Heals should only be causing drama at the start of a fight which a quick taunt and damage easily renders moot. If you are having problems with trash in Ops at any level of difficulty... Then the problem is your group, not guard or taunt.

Edited April 5, 2012 by midnitemonster

[Kil-Gorbane]

Has anyone actually experimented with the aggro a tank generates when being near a mob? Example, you walk towards a group, they see you, they attack. This scenario has generated 0 threat with your analysis yet the mobs are attacking the tank (No taunts, no damage dealt yet).

 

SO, the very beginning of a fight is a scenario where no mob has been attacked, yet they see the tank move in first and start attacking. If there are multiple mobs and the tank is unable to attack every single one or taunt them due to spacing there is the possibility that a few mobs go un-checked. Now those mobs were attacking the tank because they saw him first. This would suggest that mere presence would cause threat generation and set the tank/LOS target at the top of aggro tables. It is not until someone produces more threat (110% or 130%) that these mobs leave the first LOS player. By all of our experiments/theorycrafting/analyzing a ranged person would have to do 130% threat to pull that un-checked mob. IN ADDITION, it is possible for a healer to generate that much threat over time healing if no one is attacking it.

 

You are assuming that un-attacked mobs have 0 threat on them. This does not seem to be the case in this game, evident by them attacking the tank at first. This would mean that a healer has to generate 130% threat to pull those un-attacked mobs. This description of the events is different then your portrayal. Would a guard be more useful in this analysis now?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kil-Gorbane

[Kil-Gorbane]

All I have been advocating from the start; is that a group should use more communication. AND that the guard rules are not iron clad. Be flexible. I don't know why you are coming down on me with rage and fire.

[midnitemonster]

All I have been advocating from the start; is that a group should use more communication. AND that the guard rules are not iron clad. Be flexible. I don't know why you are coming down on me with rage and fire.

 

I see it as making things more complicated than they need to be. In Operations there is already enough going on. A healer should not have to worry about getting in range of a Tank for something so minimal. The same could be said for HM flashpoints when your group is not very good and the healer is having to piggy-back.

Edited April 5, 2012 by midnitemonster

[Kil-Gorbane]

But it may not be so minimal. I understand that the 5% mitigation is minimal, but what about the threat generation?

 

Everyone is assuming that un-attacked mobs have 0 threat on them. And thus a healer will easily pull those mobs no matter what because a % reduction on 0 is still 0.

 

But no one has taken into consideration that the mobs attack on LOS. Meaning that even un-attacked mobs have some threat value because they are attacking something. This means that the guard on a healer does have the possibility to reduce threat because it is a % reduction on X (where X>0).

 

Plus I am not saying that the healer needs to move within 15m, it just has the option. Their may not always be 1 set of mobs. Kiting, DPS attacking the lower mobs, or taunts are all useful too. And I even agree that DPS should have guard sometimes. I am just arguing that guard on a healer is not a complete waste. And yes a dead healer has a greater chance for raid wide wipe, who's more likely to have the battle rez?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kil-Gorbane

[TheSidehatch]

Plus I am not saying that the healer needs to move within 15m, it just has the option. ... I am just arguing that guard on a healer is not a complete waste.

 

Except Guard does not function if the guarded player is greater than 15m away. So, a healer that chooses the option to NOT move within 15m is literally completely wasting the Guard.

 

A mDPS on the other hand will be within 15m of the tank 95% of the time without having to make a conscious effort.

[Kil-Gorbane]

"Except Guard does not function if the guarded player is greater than 15m away. So, a healer that chooses the option to NOT move within 15m is literally completely wasting the Guard. "

 

The point is for all the random mobs that might ambush a fight or haven't been attacked. They will want to attack the healer because it adds threat to all mobs due to healing. But the healer has an option to minimize its threat by moving within 15m in this case.

 

Before responding with the reduction on 0% argument, please at least read my question a few posts earlier. Do non-attacked mobs that have been LOS'ed have threat values on the tank since they are attacking him? If so, then the healer would benefit from threat reduction.

[midnitemonster]

"Except Guard does not function if the guarded player is greater than 15m away. So, a healer that chooses the option to NOT move within 15m is literally completely wasting the Guard. "

 

The point is for all the random mobs that might ambush a fight or haven't been attacked. They will want to attack the healer because it adds threat to all mobs due to healing. But the healer has an option to minimize its threat by moving within 15m in this case.

 

Before responding with the reduction on 0% argument, please at least read my question a few posts earlier. Do non-attacked mobs that have been LOS'ed have threat values on the tank since they are attacking him? If so, then the healer would benefit from threat reduction.

 

He might if he is within the 15m. OR as a TANK you can grab those ambushers with a taunt or AOE taunt. Or run to them and hit em with an aoe once or twice. Which generates more aggro than healing. We are implying that as a Tank, your tools and awareness should outweigh the 15m of your healer.

[RDeanOU]

Yes, the mobs attack the first person that causes aggro, but that initial aggro is just a default. The second you heal or shield that tank or anyone hits him they IMMEDIATELY start hitting that other person if nothing is done to keep aggro. Even throwing a buff on the initial aggro target is enough to take aggro from that person.

 

You can see this even with a companion. When I am playing my Sith Sorcerer and I send Khem Val into the fray I will get aggro on everything if I shield him after they see him and aggro, but before he starts hitting them.

 

So, again, we go back to your 80% healing aggro on mobs no one has paid any attention to beating out everyone else's 0 aggro.

 

There is no way around this. It's really as simple as healers don't generate aggro at a significant rate so you are wasting guard by putting it on them.

 

HK can sniper anyone randomly. I've had many runs where the healer was the most squishy. In fights with random damage, I like to guard the squishy one.

 

 

...anyway, for me, minimizing the amount of work others, especially healers, have to do is basic courtesy. That includes guarding the squishy one in fights where random players can get substantial damage as well as keeping the -5% damage debuff active on as many mobs as possible, as long as possible. Not because it's needed. Because it makes live just a little bit easier for someone else. If only so the healer can pet his cat during tha boss-encounter. Cats deserve that simply for being cats.

 

I will try to explain this again....

 

Guarding the person that is squishy instead of the person who gains the most threat is missing the point of this ability. You are turning this buff into the worst bubble of all time when you treat it this way. The buff is about mitigating threat.

 

Even still, DPS are going to get hit more often than the healer. There are many aoe abilities that will hit melee dps on boss fights and on trash pulls the melee dps are supposed to be getting hit by the normal mobs they are focusing down while the tank holds aggro on the strong and elite mobs. Guarding them always makes the most sense. The healer should rarely be getting hit and if they do it will only be for a brief second or two.

 

Random attacks that might hit anyone don't qualify as a reason to put guard on the healer. There is still an aggro table in the HK fight that this buff is supposed to help you manage. When aggro drops happen, you as the healer will gain threat back more slowly than everyone else. Slowing you down further is pointless.

 

Putting this buff on the healer would be like putting a buff that boosted healing on the tank because it also affected the medpacs he pops. You are wasting it by putting it on the person who needs it the least in every situation.

[Kil-Gorbane]

"Or run to them and hit em with an aoe once or twice."

Do your DPS like you dragging the mob pile all over the place? You know those same-faction AoE targets on the ground... you might want to tank the mobs in that.

 

"You can see this even with a companion. When I am playing my Sith Sorcerer and I send Khem Val into the fray I will get aggro on everything if I shield him after they see him and aggro, but before he starts hitting them."

 

This isn't exactly an experiment that will prove your point. Whenever I play around with my Sith Sorc this does not happen. And I don't even have guard on me. My personal experiences counter yours. I have even played with Jedi Cons (Me healing), Jedi Sent (my brother dps), Qyzen Fess (tank) and Kira (DPS); the unattacked mobs do not come after me until half way through the fight after I have healed and DPS'ed some. And it is not like Fess is taunting everyone either (we also focus fire our targets). I've made a mental note of this because I usually get to save my CC abilities for that.

 

What I am asking is, has anyone actually figured out what that initial attack threat value is? We have theorycraft on how much threat % is generated from buffs/bubbles/ranged DPS/melee DPS/heals, but what about the first initial contact? And do the 110/130% threat values come into play to remove these non-attacked mobs?

 

I think this could be a useful conversation. I just ask that everyone opens their mind a bit and drop the 'we must always guard melee dps' act.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kil-Gorbane

[TheSidehatch]

"Or run to them and hit em with an aoe once or twice."

Do your DPS like you dragging the mob pile all over the place? You know those same-faction AoE targets on the ground... you might want to tank the mobs in that.

 

"You can see this even with a companion. When I am playing my Sith Sorcerer and I send Khem Val into the fray I will get aggro on everything if I shield him after they see him and aggro, but before he starts hitting them."

 

This isn't exactly an experiment that will prove your point. Whenever I play around with my Sith Sorc this does not happen. And I don't even have guard on me. My personal experiences counter yours. I have even played with Jedi Cons (Me healing), Jedi Sent (my brother dps), Qyzen Fess (tank) and Kira (DPS); the unattacked mobs do not come after me until half way through the fight after I have healed and DPS'ed some. And it is not like Fess is taunting everyone either. I've made a mental note of this because I usually get to save my CC abilities for that.

 

What I am asking is, has anyone actually figured out what that initial attack threat value is? We have theorycraft on how much threat % is generated from buffs/bubbles/ranged DPS/melee DPS/heals, but what about the first initial contact? And do the 110/130% threat values come into play to remove these non-attacked mobs?

 

I think this could be a useful conversation. I just ask that everyone opens their mind a bit and drop the 'we must always guard melee dps' act.

 

Your first problem is that you're applying your experience of an NPC tanking to the discussion of a REAL HUMAN BEING tanking. Any arguments you make to support your experiences and theories (in my book) are immediately nullified until you actually put them into practice with a player tank.

 

Secondly, the initial threat values are also null. A good player (note: not your Kyzen Fess trash) will be able to pick up any added mob. Every instance in which NPC's add in the middle of a fight is predictable once a tank learns the fight. At which point, if that tank knows they are slow in acquiring threat from a mob, then they need to position themselves and/or the fight in such a way to allow more time to pick up the adds. A single AOE attack is usually adequate to bring the attacking adds to a location in which the tank can begin building threat through AOE taunts and other attacks.

 

If your dps is running around like *******es while they have aggro, then it is not the tank's fault as there is no way to counter stupidity. A well timed stun/cc from a competent player will often give the tank the time needed to pick up the stray off the idiot screaming, "FIRE! FIRE!" Also, don't forget that this game is designed in such a way that many of the adds are weaker mobs (Weak, Normal or Strong) that can often be tanked by a dps or healer. They should be killed before your group moves on to the elites. If a tank has control of the elites, they may desire to pick up the Strongs, but they should not worry unless the mechanics of the fight require it.

[Kil-Gorbane]

SideHatch, did you read anything before the last post?

 

"Your first problem is that you're applying your experience of an NPC tanking to the discussion of a REAL HUMAN BEING tanking. Any arguments you make to support your experiences and theories (in my book) are immediately nullified until you actually put them into practice with a player tank."

 

1. The original counter 'experience' included a NPC companion tank

2. If anything this would further prove my point. In this scenario, with a bad NPC tank, without guard, the healer does not get aggro from unattacked mobs. This would further suggest that there is a window of threat generation in which the healer CAN cast heals and not get aggro from the unattacked mobs AND this window would be enhanced by guard.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Kil-Gorbane

[midnitemonster]

"Or run to them and hit em with an aoe once or twice."

Do your DPS like you dragging the mob pile all over the place? You know those same-faction AoE targets on the ground... you might want to tank the mobs in that.

 

If dps is not killing the extra mobs, then yes they need to follow me and my pile to the next target. Tanks and healers run things in groups/raids not the other way around.

 

My question is... Why do you feel we should "open our minds" to using guard on healers in an Operation. When we can use it on a sure constant thing, melee dps. What is better? A talent that is passive and adds a constant 10% dps, or a talent that only works for 10 seconds and adds 30% dps. Why do you need to know what the initial attack threat value is? You are a Tank, you jump into fights. 9/10 times you start the fights further than 15m from the healers. You attack and taunt. There is no real threat issues.

 

If you are truly only wondering because of trash pulls... Well I don't know what to tell you. Other than dps needs to kill better and tanks need to aggro better. You seem to want to make this overly complicated for some reason.

[Kil-Gorbane]

"Other than dps needs to kill better and tanks need to aggro better. You seem to want to make this overly complicated for some reason."

 

Bottom line is that both sides of the story can present arguments and experiences. Not everyone has a perfect group composition nor is every group made up of perfect players. I just wanted to make the point that guard on a healer may be helpful. I have presented my points. I know how to properly tank and I also know that group ops require flexibility in their planning. I am suggesting you guys open your minds and remove the constant battering and attacking. Especially when I have made several points that have yet to be countered or are just scoffed off. If you guys are unwilling to listen to an actual discussion then why are you even in these forums?

 

BTW I am not even the OP'er nor am I the only voice supporting that guard DOES NOT have to be on DPS all the time.

[TheSidehatch]

Kil-Gorbane, did you read my post?

 

If not, I can paraphrase: What does it matter? In this situation a single attack of any kind will be enough for the tank to pick the mob.

 

You are asking about initial threat (which is off the subject of this thread anyway) and what value is inherently created. Without any form of combat logs, it is incredibly difficult to do any theorycrafting with the regard to your question. As such, there is very little theorycrafting in existence.

 

My point is stop worrying about the math behind something so miniscule and impossible to calculate until the release of combat logs in the next patch.

 

For the time being, focus on how to play the game and react to mechanics than decontruct the mechanics.

 

If nothing else, please take these two things from this discussion:

1. don't bring a new topic to an existing discussion, go create a new thread.

2. don't try to compare the behavior of mechanics by an NPC to players, these boards are for player tanking discussion. Not companion tanking discussion.