Wren_Atticus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) I took a hard look at the 1.2 changes for Scrapper DPS and this is what I saw in terms of gains and losses: Here are the negative changes to the class: 7.5 second cooldown added to shoot first 3 seconds added to CD of backblast for a total of 12 seconds Loss of the 2 energy off flechette round from Sawed Off Only 5 energy off Back Blast instead of 10 due to change from Sawed Off to Flanking Sucker Punch deals 6% less damage (-10% +4% talent) -3% on all damage on all bleeding targets -3% on all tech/ranged crit from No Holds Barred in Dirty Fighting tree -2% on Blaster Whip damage from Holdout Defense in Dirty Fighting tree Flechette Round has 6 seconds between refreshes instead of 3 seconds now -2% Endurance on Brawler's Grit Cunning and Endurance removed from End Game shotguns and replaced with alacrity/accuracy which are not stats that Scrappers care about. What is gained: -5 less energy needed for Sucker Punch +4% damage increase to Flying Fists (50% proc off Sucker Punch) +9% (talented) damage increase to Back Blast A free talent point from Brawlers Grit Information I didn't know for certain, but someone on PTR would: Damage increase to Back Blast from Sawed Off EDIT= 4% Number of points Sawed Off requires EDIT= 1 Did I miss anything here? From what I can tell, this is a very obvious and big nerf. The only damage not being nerfed is Back Blast, and I think that is offset by the added CD. So I call that breaking even there. Every other damage ability was nerfed. And energy management is not increased with the -5 off Sucker Punch as we gain +4 from having to do Flechette Round before Shoot First and Back Blast. EDIT- Changed No Holds Barred to crit from damage. And also verified that Flying Fists is a 4% increase as well. EDIT #2- Added in the 4% increase to Back Blast. Also under negatives added the additional 3 seconds of downtime on Flechette Round. EDIT #3- Added the loss of endurance from Brawler's Grit to the losses group. EDIT #4- Added the shotgun nerf Edited March 20, 2012 by Wren_Atticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePedia Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 its a 3% loss of crit from Dirty Fighting, not 3% damage. Other than that, looks accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren_Atticus Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 its a 3% loss of crit from Dirty Fighting, not 3% damage. Other than that, looks accurate. Thanks. Also, how many points is Sawed Off and what is the damage increase on Back Blast from that talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePedia Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 thanks. Also, how many points is sawed off and what is the damage increase on back blast from that talent? 1, 4% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren_Atticus Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 1, 4% Thanks again. Also, Brawler's Grit. Is it 3%,6% or 2%,4%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePedia Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks again. Also, Brawler's Grit. Is it 3%,6% or 2%,4%? 2%,4% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xfightx Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 i see more negtive changes then positive thx to georg the fanboys will be happy that scoundrel/opetives get nerfed and they can forfil there weat jedi dream now ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theagg Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) So, along with the overall up front loss in damage (we lose more from Sucker Punch than we gain on Back Blast, and the extra damage from Flying Fists if it procs doesn't add much precisely because it is chance related) we also lose a hefty amount of Cunning from some of our end game shotguns. Which also feeds into a further loss of damage right across every ability. Has anyone done a calculation for the extra 'unmentioned' percentage loss to overall damage from that change to Shotguns yet ? Why did they add Alacrity as 'compensation' for that again ? For PvP I don't really care about the positive energy changes, since I rarely have energy management issues in PvP. Now what was the original selling point for the Scoundrel in the official class description and vids. Something along the lines of the character who likes to get in there, get the job done quickly and get out again. With each patch it's a class thats drifting away from that original picture. Edited March 21, 2012 by Theagg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilTsar Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 going by bullet points in the pts patch notes, starting with the non-tree stuff the longer cd on back blast puts it more in line with how often we can actually get behind an opponent in solo play as well as the flechette round buff the cd on shoot first i guess keeps people from using diapearing act immediately after an initial shoot first, i never did that so doesnt bother me the loss of a point on brawler's grit is good news since endurance is wasted on us and it makes room for... flanking, which while obviously not as good as the current form of 'sawed off' is helpful in its absence i nver actually noticed the delay on k.o., or at least functionally it didnt matter, but fixing animations is always a nice thing sawed off further increases the damage of back blast, helping even more to compensate for the longer cd new sucker punch is opposite of new back blast, cheaper but less effective but then the new 'turn the tables', increases the damage to sucker punch by an unknown amount, but since its a two point skill may be as much as back to original simply as a way to dissuade peopel from trying hybrid trees, and also steals the extra energy from pugnacity effect the new underdog keeps its giant crits on shotgun moves. no problems there and yeah ok we got a bit nerfed on getting points on dirty fighting. big deal NO REAL ISSUES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxBlake Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What the hell is this about no end/cunn on the shotguns? Does anyone have exact numbers on them? What possible reason do they have for giving us alac and even more effin accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What the hell is this about no end/cunn on the shotguns? Does anyone have exact numbers on them? What possible reason do they have for giving us alac and even more effin accuracy. They want you to quit to make more room for sorcerers. I was trying to hang in here, I know I can survive the nerf but with all my friends going back to wow, server being dead and..... knowing that 1.2 will shut people up for about 2 weeks, well... I'm starting to have crazy thoughts about ridiculous Pandas until GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxBlake Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just saw the screenshots in another thread more accuracy for enforcer and more alacarity for medic less cunning for both.......who comes up with this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuey Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Just saw the screenshots in another thread more accuracy for enforcer and more alacarity for medic less cunning for both.......who comes up with this stuff Any idea about how much cunning we're losing and if its an across the board change? (i.e. if the same nerfs happened to other class offhands) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxBlake Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=369298&page=4 scroll down on that page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theagg Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 If I read those images correctly, the shotgun mainly hit by a loss to Cunning is the BM Field Medic gun. Everything else seems to have the Cunning largely unchanged. A Bonus to accuracy will improve my particular set up. My current Tech accuracy rating being 107%. The Alacrity bonus will do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren_Atticus Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Someone actually started asking me about Scrappers last night after seeing me perform in WZs. He asked me if it was worth rolling one and I had to tell him no due to the upcoming 1.2 changes. That depressed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiazabi Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You dont actually gain 4% dmg on back blast , suckerpunch , flying fist when you loose 3% dmg from all sources on bleeding targets so more like 6% back blast 1% suckerpunch 1% flying fists -3% on all others blaster whip and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePedia Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You dont actually gain 4% dmg on back blast , suckerpunch , flying fist when you loose 3% dmg from all sources on bleeding targets so more like 6% back blast 1% suckerpunch 1% flying fists -3% on all others blaster whip and such. Sucker Punch loses 9%, you forgot about the 10% nerf to its base damage before talents. Blaster Whip loses 5% due to the 2% decrease in the Dirty Fighting talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nulli Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Gear is a nonissue folks, expect it to be remedied by player craftable mods and stuff. DPS nerfs on us is a huge issue when other classes have more utility/cc etc and they hit as hard. Energy is a tremendous issue when fighting well geared well played adversaries (healers in particular). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren_Atticus Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm strongly considering rerolling a Sentinel with 1.2. I'd start one now, but I want to be a Chiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepidel Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 ffs, I already have to go out of my way to dump all the alacracity and accuracy they try to force down our throats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohitei Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Smuggler General Dirty Kick can now be used while moving. Players can now "Crouch" (but not roll into cover) while immobilized. Smugglers can no longer be pushed out of cover via the "cover integrity" mechanic, which has been removed from the game. Scoundrel Due to changes to the Scoundrel skill trees, Scoundrels have had their skill points refunded. Back Blast now deals approximately 5% more damage. Diagnostic Scan's tooltip now displays the full amount healed over its duration. Shoot First now has a 7.5-second cooldown and deals approximately 10% more damage. Tranquilizer now gives an appropriate error message if used on Droids. Upper Hand no longer triggers a "grunt" sound effect when it occurs. Scrapper Brawler's Grit is now a 2-point skill. Flanking is a new 1-point skill located in Tier 3 of the skill tree. It reduces the Energy cost of Back Blast by 5. K.O. no longer experiences a delay in its knockdown effect and is now a 1-point skill. Sawed Off now increases the damage dealt by Back Blast. It is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree and requires Flanking. Sucker Punch now costs 10 Energy (down from 15). Turn the Tables has been redesigned and is now a 2-point skill. It no longer increases damage dealt to bleeding targets, but increases the Energy gained by Pugnacity and the damage dealt by Sucker Punch and Flying Fists. Underdog no longer increases Energy gained by Pugnacity. This effect is now part of Turn the Tables. Dirty Fighting (Scoundrel) Hemorrhaging Blast no longer has an Energy cost. Holdout Defense now increases Blaster Whip damage by 4% per point. Just an idea. But that is a real need for us. Edited March 23, 2012 by Ohitei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wren_Atticus Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 And it is official, my guild is not looking to include any DPS Scoundrels on its core rated War Zone team. It's nothing against the players or their skills. They simply lack the resources of the other DPS classes. Maybe BioWare will wake up when they start seeing only healing Scoundrels/operatives are making the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 And it is official, my guild is not looking to include any DPS Scoundrels on its core rated War Zone team. It's nothing against the players or their skills. They simply lack the resources of the other DPS classes. Maybe BioWare will wake up when they start seeing only healing Scoundrels/operatives are making the cut. They won't. Why? Because there won't be any scoundrels/ops to receive feedback from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 And it is official, my guild is not looking to include any DPS Scoundrels on its core rated War Zone team. It's nothing against the players or their skills. They simply lack the resources of the other DPS classes. Maybe BioWare will wake up when they start seeing only healing Scoundrels/operatives are making the cut.Working as intended. Because apparently otherwise there would be too many "teams of Operatives/Scoundrels" stunlocking people and making them quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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