Can someone help me with marauder vs assassin?

[Durath]

Hi,

 

I have played mostly ranged characters until now.

 

I'm looking to play either the assassin or marauder but am not sure which I would prefer.

 

 

Please add to this list or correct me if I'm wrong:

 

 

Marauder:

Leap

Snare

Interrupt

 

 

Assassin

Stealth

Sprint

Pull

Stun

 

 

I only have limited play with either of them so I dont really know much about them.

 

I'm looking for a melee class that can get in range, do good damage and has utility to shut down the enemy.

Survivability is also high on my list.

 

(yes, I know I want it all... hehe)

 

 

Another important factor is how hard is it to play that class well? I understand that marauder may be harder to master then assassin is?

 

 

thanks for any assistance in this, i'm trying to find a new class to play to hold my interest in this game

[hadoken]

In brief they're pretty equal in killing potential, though I think the marauder pulls ahead some (depends on who you talk to). The marauder is also (subjectively) harder to play than the assassin. The marauder has more survivability cooldowns but the assassin has the vanish/stealth away option (not to mention stealth in the first place, marauder version is very limited).

 

And finally, assassins come into their own much quicker than marauders, who are very late bloomers.

[lollermittens]

I have both a Level 50 Assassin and Marauder. Here's my take on the current state of both classes (I can't predict what's going to happen in 1.2 too accurately since I don't access to the PTS):

 

Assassin:

 

• Great mobility. Controls the flow of the fight due to Vanish.
  
• Currently, the best spec for Assassins is the 27/2/12 build (or a slight variation with a 27/0/14 build) which is basically a Tank spec that is abused by wearing a 4-piece PvE set that gives you 15% increased crit chance with Trash. Therefore most Assassins right now are running around with 17k+ HP, 40% armor reduction and if wearing a shield, even greater chances of mitigating damage all the while spamming Trash + Shock + Force Lightning when Harnessed Darkness has 3 stacks. This is currently why most Assassins are so easy mode and OP but because of the huge nerf that is coming to PvE gear in PvP situations, that build will not be viable anymore.
  
• If you're going for Deception spec, you're basically a gimped Marauder. You're too squishy and you don't have enough defensive CDs to survive the stomping you will get coming ouf stealth. Your damage is extremely bursty and if you don't get your crits from Voltaic Slash, you'll be in deep doo-doo.
  
• I don't play Madness. It's gimped and simply doesn't provide the damage (Deception) or the mitigation (Darkness) provided by either trees.
  
• The rotation is this: Thrash -> Thrash -> Thrash (wait for Energize) -> Shock -> Thrash -> Thrash -> Thrash (wait for Energize) -> Shock -> Thrash ... -> Force Lightning. That's pretty much it... You're just spamming Thrash to get the Energize buff which makes your next Shock a guaranteed crit. Spamming shock 3 times will give you 3 stacks of Harnessed Darkness which make your next Force Lightning uninterruptible and heal you for a small amount of HP.
  

 

 

Marauder (specifically Annihilation spec):

 

• My current Annihilation build. Cookie-cutter. Most people use this build with very slight variations (some people put 2 points into Defensive Roll instead of Energized Charge which is complete non-sense IMO since Rage generation is much more important than situational damage reduction for AoEs). Others don't put points into Seeping Wound which is also idiotic since in 1.2 the speed debuff will be raised from 30% -> 50%.
  
• Class with the highest "skill cap" in the game. What is meant by that is that 1-50 will be a learning experience and post-50 becomes another learning experience since you will be so undergeared being a fresh 50, you will suffer and have to re-learn how to PvP from the 10-49 bracket.
  
• Extremely gear dependent. I just cannot emphasize this enough. Be ready to suffer. Even with a Champion MH/OH, I was still doing very poor damage. It's not until I got my Rakata weapons, 280+ crit and 77% surge that I was finally able to do 4k+ hits and 250k+ total damage in WZs (note: I have never hit over 5k damage. It's extremely hard for a Marauder and actually getting over 300k damage for a Marauder is extremely difficult because we have no AoE skills which really pad those DPS meters up. I just love nothing more than doing 300k+ damage in a WZ while out-DPS'ing BH's and Sorcs; that means you're a good Marauder).
  
• Mobility is horrid. You basically never want to Charge in a fight. You want to run into a fight and then use your Charge for the obvious KB that will be waiting for you.
  
• This is the typical rotation: Charge -> Saber Ward (while Charging) -> Rupture -> Battering Assault -> (Trinkets + Adrenal + Berserk if available) -> Annihilate. That's if you Charge into the fight.
  
• Without Charging in, it would be Battering Assault -> Rupture -> (Charge if you have been KB'd or you are trying to interrupt a spell cast) -> (Assault if you didn't Charge) -> (Trinkets + Adrenal + Berserk if available) -> Annihilate.
  
• Regarding PvE, it's so easy, I don't even think I need to spell it out that you just sit on a stationary target (for 99% of the time) and just unload a buttload of damage. Just be aware that ranged DPS >>>> melee DPS in every way currently due to boss mechanics and just how ridiculously OP'd ranged classes (Sniper comes to my mind if you want to arguably play the strongest ranged class in the game that is faceroll).
  

 

 

I disagree that both classes are equal in terms of "killing power." An Assassin spec'd and like I mentioned earlier may pull some great damage if he's geared, but if he doesn't have great gear, he will be able to compete because of his survavibility and the many ways you have to escape from a fight. On the other hand, Marauders don't become viable until you have top-end gear which is a fact you have to take very seriously if you're going the Marauder route: the class just blows if you don't have gear.

 

If you just want to have a good time and faceroll your way to victory, roll an Assassin (Sorcs are even easier) but beware that in 1.2 your Darkness spec will take a huge hit in DPS but you will be even more un-killable.

Edited March 20, 2012 by lollermittens

[Caelrie]

A point that needs to be mentioned is situational awareness. The mara is harder to play from a hotkeys and abilities point-of-view. You have more abilities, procs and cooldowns to watch. This is offset by the fact that you don't really need to pay attention to anything except what your kill target is doing.

 

The assassin has fewer buttons and abilities and procs, so is easier to play in that regard. However, a successful assassin needs to watch what everyone nearby is doing. You'll need to throw taunts, guards, watch your healers' backs, pull enemies off your team's squishier targets, etc.

 

Pick your class based on those factors. Do you want to master a ton of abilities but not have to watch what's going on around you, or do you want fewer abilities but need superior situational awareness?

[Durath]

wow, great info!

 

thanks a lot

 

 

I believe I will be going assassin

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what the huge nerf to assassin pvp is that's coming with 1.2

Edited March 20, 2012 by Durath

[lollermittens]

Situational awareness is only "easier" to recognize with an Assassin simply because of Stealth. The same can be said about Operatives/Scoundrels: they provide greater situational awareness because of the ability to be invisible on demand.

 

I have to be extremely aware of what is going on around me with my Marauder, even moreso than my Assassin. Bad Marauders blows their Charge as an opening skill: don't do that. Distance yourself from the battle. Look at what I call "exterior" targets: ranged classes who position themselves on the catwalk in Huttball; the small catwalk in mid in Alderaan; and the classes who pillar-hug in Voidstar. Those are the ones you want to go in after with your Marauder.

 

Once you sic on a target, that's your job to take it down. But to survive, since most people will jump on a Marauder that's damaging their teammate, you will have to be situationally aware of your health, the enemies, and your current position. And that's more difficult to manage than an Assassin because I can't Vanish whenever I want to and reset the fight on my own terms.

 

Situation awareness is important for all classes not just Assassins.

Edited March 20, 2012 by lollermittens

[lollermittens]

wow, great info!

 

thanks a lot

 

I believe I will be going assassin

 

I'm not sure I understand what the huge nerf to assassin pvp is that's coming with 1.2

 

The build I posted will not be viable once 1.2 comes out since they are nerfing PvE gear in PvP to oblivion. The whole point of this build is to wear the Stalker-set (PvE-DPS set) with a Tank spec. This gives you the best of both worlds: survavibility and damage.

 

Since Assassins were left untouched in 1.2, this is a more classic build (31/0/10) that will be viable in 1.2 -- you could go with DPS gear instead of tanking gear if that's what you want to do just be aware that you won't be pulling a lot of DPS by trading off the damage mitigation you get from PvP tanking gear.

[Durath]

The build I posted will not be viable once 1.2 comes out since they are nerfing PvE gear in PvP to oblivion. The whole point of this build is to wear the Stalker-set (PvE-DPS set) with a Tank spec. This gives you the best of both worlds: survavibility and damage.

 

Since Assassins were left untouched in 1.2, this is a more classic build (31/0/10) that will be viable in 1.2 -- you could go with DPS gear instead of tanking gear if that's what you want to do just be aware that you won't be pulling a lot of DPS by trading off the damage mitigation you get from PvP tanking gear.

 

 

So with this classic build, is it basically the same rotation as you said in your previous post?

[Macroecon]

[*]Extremely gear dependent. I just cannot emphasize this enough. Be ready to suffer. Even with a Champion MH/OH, I was still doing very poor damage. It's not until I got my Rakata weapons, 280+ crit and 77% surge that I was finally able to do 4k+ hits and 250k+ total damage in WZs (note: I have never hit over 5k damage. It's extremely hard for a Marauder and actually getting over 300k damage for a Marauder is extremely difficult

 

I think there is a lot of good info in your post, but I question the overall view. My own Marauder is still in development, but I have multiple friends who's main toons are top players on my server who grouped with me the very instant their alt Maras turned 50. They were scoring ~250k damage right out of the chute in Huttie. By the end of the day everyone of them had scored over 300k. The top Mara/Sentinal on our server in full BM gear has scored over 725k and only time they would score under 400k would be in an abbreviated Huttie match.

 

Look, I'm not saying "You're doing it wrong", but something IS wrong with the aggregate numbers you are posting.

[dutch-master]

I think there is a lot of good info in your post, but I question the overall view. My own Marauder is still in development, but I have multiple friends who's main toons are top players on my server who grouped with me the very instant their alt Maras turned 50. They were scoring ~250k damage right out of the chute in Huttie. By the end of the day everyone of them had scored over 300k. The top Mara/Sentinal on our server in full BM gear has scored over 725k and only time they would score under 400k would be in an abbreviated Huttie match.

 

Look, I'm not saying "You're doing it wrong", but something IS wrong with the aggregate numbers you are posting.

 

Somebody admits Maras are OP, no way....

[Aeriese]

Somebody admits Maras are OP, no way....

 

Eh... no, not really. He threw out some specs, partially based on his character being in very nice gear. Marauders in particular are very dependent on keeping their gear updated. Even when teamed up with a good tank and healer, marauders still get a lot of hatred poured on them from mobs, and then of course there's the solo experience. I've never viewed them as overpowered myself, but then I never ask for someone's class to be nerfed.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Aeriese

[Macroecon]

Eh... no, not really. He threw out some specs, partially based on his character being in very nice gear. Marauders in particular are very dependent on keeping their gear updated. Even when teamed up with a good tank and healer, marauders still get a lot of hatred poured on them from mobs, and then of course there's the solo experience. I've never viewed them as overpowered myself, but then I never ask for someone's class to be nerfed.

 

Let's be honest - all the top PvP players re-rolled a Mara/Sent prior to the 1.2 patch note release. Mostly it was for giggles as the assumption was they would be nerfed. GZ after all called it "God Mode". The universal reaction of these players after the patch notes were released was SHOCK. As in, "DAMN I'M GLAD I HAVE MY MARAUDER!". Generally we don't want to talk to much about it, because.... well you know, the nail that sticks out the highest gets knocked back in.

 

But don't kid yourself, it took BW 4 months to address some class (im)balance issues that were widely known and reported in beta. It will take probably 3+ months AFTER ranked wz starts before they address this one. So if you want to do well in ranked wz, you need to have your Mara up and ready. Initially there will still be room for other classes because there won't be enough good Mara/Sent players available to fill 8 man squads. But after a couple months of ranked wz, I think most PvP oriented guilds should be able to field 6 Mara + 2 healer teams. Maybe add a tank for Huttie.

[Durath]

6 marauders and two healers?

 

Are marauders really going to be that powerful?

 

 

 

 

I think I will likely stick to assassin as I don't think I have the skill to master the marauder, it appears to be more complex. (more buttons to keep track of)

 

 

I still don't know which of the two has more utility like interrupts, leap, pull, stun, snare, sprint, etc

 

 

tks all for the info!

[hadoken]

Marauders are very powerful in one on one but their snares can be dispelled and the charge blocked with cover/los. Against a balanced team in an objective based game (huttball in particular) that all marauder group won't do very well. Yea they can kill people but that's only a part of the goal in warzones.

[LoKiei]

Sin is currently better but I think they will be adjusted soon.