6 second RS. Lets put the crying to rest.

[Whirlwindhansen]

cmon guys seriously, understand the mechanics of how this works before resorting to anger/crying.

The 6 second lockout starts the moment your fb/rp procs PA. In other words. Once u cast fb/rp and proc PA, the 6 second timer starts meaning by the time u cast RS and its gcd has ended there will only be 3 seconds left on the lockout. Which is only 2 gcd's.

How do i know this? Because this mechanic works as such, already on other classes. Plus listen to people talking who are on pts. IMO this is a very minimal nerf at most. Not worth as much attention as it has generated

[Theology]

You realize 4 GCDs is 6 seconds, right? And that our only way of venting heat is tied to this ability. Not to mention, we don't get to rail shot 'every 6 seconds', we still have to go through 2 GCDs to get he proc (3 seconds,) thus resulting in 9 seconds per rail shot.

[Theology]

And i'd hardly call it crying, more like concerned for how 9s per 8 heat, while having to use 32 heat just to proc it, is going to work out for us.

 

The answer is, it won't.

[Whirlwindhansen]

You realize 4 GCDs is 6 seconds, right? And that our only way of venting heat is tied to this ability. Not to mention, we don't get to rail shot 'every 6 seconds', we still have to go through 2 GCDs to get he proc (3 seconds,) thus resulting in 9 seconds per rail shot.

 

did you decide to just reply to the op without even reading it? I tried to explain it as simply as i could but i think you didnt take the time to understand what i wrote. Basically......anyone still crying 9+ second railshots does not understand the mechanics of the 1' lockout

[Theology]

How does 6-1.5=3? Thats a whole GCD dude.

[Theology]

So FB+RP(Procs here)+RS= 4.5 seconds left on the timer.

 

That doesn't change the fact that it is still 9 seconds between each Rail shot. That GCD that rail shot produces still counts towards the 4 GCDs inbetween each proc, + the 2 GCDs to Proc it once it is eligible to be proc'd.

 

Does that make sense? I see what you're getting at though and I had to think about it for a second. Basically you're counting the GCD that RS produces like it takes time away from waiting for the proc, but it doesn't. that RS still produces that 1.5 GCD no matter what and that's still time youre waiting again to re-use it.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Theology

[Whirlwindhansen]

by the time your first accelerated RS has ended there will only be 2 gcds left of the lockout. Which means your next accelerated railshot "could" be ready to proc again in 3 seconds, not 6. Edited March 20, 2012 by Whirlwindhansen

[Bewzled]

So FB+RP(Procs here)+RS= 4.5 seconds left on the timer.

 

That doesn't change the fact that it is still 9 seconds between each Rail shot. That GCD that rail shot produces still counts towards the 4 GCDs inbetween each proc, + the 2 GCDs to Proc it once it is eligible to be proc'd.

 

Does that make sense? I see what you're getting at though and I had to think about it for a second. Basically you're counting the GCD that RS produces like it takes time away from waiting for the proc, but it doesn't. that RS still produces that 1.5 GCD no matter what and that's still time youre waiting again to re-use it.

 

Activate FB/RP (Obtain proc)

1.5 GCD

Activate Rail Shot

1.5 GCD

 

3 seconds left

 

 

Basicly it now means your next 2 attacks after your shot do not have a chance to proc it. Unless there is some internal issue with the timing that also disallows your third to proc, which would suck.

 

Edit: having this in mind it is most efficient to try to Rocket Punch on your third ability after a proc.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Bewzled

[Theology]

by the time your first accelerated RS has ended there will only be 2 gcds left of the lockout. Which means your next accelerated railshot "could" be ready to proc again in 3 seconds, not 6.

 

You're not counting the (on average) 2 GCD's to actually proc the railshot though, is what im trying to say. You still have to go through 3 seconds of GCD to get that proc.

[Bewzled]

You're not counting the (on average) 2 GCD's to actually proc the railshot though, is what im trying to say. You still have to go through 3 seconds of GCD to get that proc.

 

Actually, if your second attack proc'd that would be a 1.5 second wait to get the proc, not 3s. But it would be 3 seconds before you actually get to use the proc. But it's still a nerf.

[Whirlwindhansen]

also take into account that during this 6 second lockout u might be stunned knocked back, knocked down, incapacitated, or just switching targets after u killed someone. Making the lockout even more irrelevant.

 

For example. If u proc PA and then get stunned 4 seconds, u could cast RS and inevitably still get back to back railshots after 1 proccing fb/rp.

 

Considering the increased proc chances. Its hardly a nerf to anything more than lucky bursts.

[Theology]

How would it be only a 1.5 second wait if you have to use 2 GCD's to proc it?

[Theology]

Okay lets break it down boys.

 

For the sake of discussion, lets say you open on some guy with:

 

TD+IM+RS, (3 GCDs 4.5 secs)

 

Then you go to proc RS again. Flame burst > Rocket Punch=2 GCDs for a total of 3 seconds.( PROC TIMER STARTS, 6 seconds) then Railshot -1.5 seconds. Auto attack -1.5 Auto attack -1.5 Auto attack -1.5=6 seconds. PPA is eligible. FB+RP (3 seocnds) (total of 9 seconds) > Rail Shot

[Theology]

also take into account that during this 6 second lockout u might be stunned knocked back, knocked down, incapacitated, or just switching targets after u killed someone. Making the lockout even more irrelevant.

 

For example. If u proc PA and then get stunned 4 seconds, u could cast RS and inevitably still get back to back railshots after 1 proccing fb/rp.

 

Considering the increased proc chances. Its hardly a nerf to anything more than lucky bursts.

 

The increased proc rate is still a joke man, hate to break it to you. So what if we're stunned and knocked back, etc etc, it doesnt change the fact that rail shot is only usable, max every 7.5 seconds, and will be more like 9-12 seconds when fighting the RNG gods.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Theology

[Whirlwindhansen]

The increased proc rate is still a joke man, hate to break it to you. So what if we're stunned and knocked back, etc etc, it doesnt change the fact that rail shot is only usable, max every 7.5 seconds, and will be more like 9-12 seconds when fighting the RNG gods.

 

wrong. This is what everyone still crying thinks. Completely wrong.......just wait till 1.2 goes live if u dont believe me.

[Theology]

Lol, FB is 45% and RP is 60%, thats 15% on each ability.......hardly significant.

[Theology]

And i disprove you with my above posts and you still say we're crying?

[Bewzled]

Okay lets break it down boys.

 

For the sake of discussion, lets say you open on some guy with:

 

TD+IM+RS, (3 GCDs 4.5 secs)

 

Then you go to proc RS again. Flame burst > Rocket Punch=2 GCDs for a total of 3 seconds.( PROC TIMER STARTS, 6 seconds) then Railshot -1.5 seconds. Auto attack -1.5 Auto attack -1.5 Auto attack -1.5=6 seconds. PPA is eligible. FB+RP (3 seocnds) (total of 9 seconds) > Rail Shot

 

/facepalm

 

The proc will happen as soon as you START the attack.

 

You can use TWO abilities within a 1.5 second window.

 

You need to wait 3 seconds to do your THIRD attack.

 

I can't comprehend how some people are this bad at math.

[SneiK]

Thx for pointing this out OP and Bewzled. Haven't had access to the test server myself, so I didn't even think about the proc starting when the proc ability is actually cast. This changes things...Silly me. Not suprised that Theology here is making a name for himself for misreading others tho. This guy just won't admit he is wrong... Edited March 20, 2012 by SneiK

[Sushiwarrior]

If it works like OP says its Its not nearly as bad as ppl think imo. Its definately a nerf but tbh pyro could use one.

 

you can do other stuff in the 2 gcd that you cant use ppa. Seems like you can even postpone Railshot 1 or 2 gcd if you want. mb if you're low on heat so you can use a TD or something before you RS and vent heat.

 

Or you can go for an increased burst for pvp, something like this

0s proc ppa

1.5s TD

3s FB to reapply dot (or something else)

4.5s Now you use your free RS

6s, RP, six seconds since ppa so you can proc again now

7.5s RS, 60% chance that you can do this, up from 45%

 

Hope it works like this, I definately see some options for more diverse gameplay, could even throw in a flamethrower in the 3seconds.

[Panner_]

OP is right. The expected time between Rail Shots in 1.2 will be around 7.5 seconds. Best case scenario is 6 seconds. Edited March 20, 2012 by Panner_

[Cy-lore]

Here's something I've been thinking about that no one's mentioned:

 

If you only wait every 6 seconds to try and get the proc, it's roughly 1 railshot every 6-8 seconds. But if you wait for the NORMAL cooldown on Railshot (9 seconds), then get the proc for your second railshot, doesn't that average to one about every 5-7 seconds (assuming you get the proc)? It makes me think the developers are trying to switch this to get one extra railshot after your normal one, not proc it as many times as possible.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, got mixed up on the cooldown.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Cy-lore

[Sevvy]

Rail Shot's cooldown is 15 seconds. Rocket Punch is 9 seconds. Edited March 20, 2012 by Sevvy

[AetherMcLoud]

How does 6-1.5=3? Thats a whole GCD dude.

 

0 Seconds: Use Rocket Punch. PPA procs

1.5 Seconds: Use Railshot from PPA proc

3 Seconds: use some other skill

4.5 Seconds: use some other skill

6 Seconds: PPA can now proc again

[Rophez]

That's all well and good, but this is still a HUGE nerf. Maybe you guys don't pvp a lot, but I do, and the only way I drop healers is when I get a lot of RS procs.

 

TD>FB>RS>RP>RS>FB>RS>FB>RS - This happens far more often than not. Maybe I'm lucky? It let's me drop heal specced sages, etc.

 

Take out those back to back RS, and I don't think I"ll have the sustained burst I need to a) manage heat appropriately, b) dps through heals.

 

Now, if the devs don't want people to be able to kill healers, that's one thing, but don't take away my ability to do that and then tell me it isn't a nerf.

 

PS, George, if you are reading: I'd love to actually test this, but no way I'm spending time to level up and gear out a 50 on your PTS. Let us char copy over if you are serious about having a real test environment.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Rophez